| Author |
Message |
Micro Henry
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 10:58 am Post subject:
Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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My DVR-520H has developed a problem when using High Speed Copying from the
HD to the DVD. This has happened in many copression modes. The one I use
the most is MN7. It will always do realtime copies.
Symptoms.
Record Mode MN7
The hard drive as around 1000Mb or more of 76000Mb of useable storage
space, about 1hr or more at MN7(hard drive is near full).
The file being copied is 500Mb, about 30min
The DVD is new or empty, 4454Mb about 4-1/2 hours at MN7
From the copy menu I select HDD to DVD
Add, the file.
conf list
select High Speed Copy.
Select start
Immediately it starts the copy and then gives up. The Screen displays
"Cannot Complete Copy" The front panel display is: "COPY ERR"
The first time this happened I determined the hard drive may have READ
ERRORs.
I took the 30min file in question and divided it in 2. Found which half
the error is in, divided that in two, etc. I saved a 3min file with the
read error that would not copy. All the division processing was done the in
the EDIT CHAPTER mode of the copy menu. The original file was not
altered.
Once I determined what segment of the file was bad, I used the normal
chapter edit to save only the segment with the error. I locked that file
so I would not be accidentally deleted.
After doing this the problem went away. It has since returned. The file
I experimented with tonight, when divided both halves of the segment that
was defective would copy individually. What a surprise that was! If I
removed the first 20 seconds the entire 30min file would copy. Of the 9
minutte segment with the read error, if I deleted minute 9, that segment
would copy or if I deleted the first 20 seconds it would copy. Weird.
This make it hard to diagnos it as a Read Error. But something in the
file structure is corrupted.
Nowhere in the manual are COPY ERRORS defined, i.e. causes, types,
descriptions.
Is anyone familiar with this unit enough to know if it is
1) Hard drive
2) Firmware
3) Hardware
4) Operator head space
I have hard 30 years in the hard drive industry testing drives. This acts
more like a system problem then a drive problem. But I would NOT rule out
the drive here.
Don't really want to send this in for repair and loose my files.
Most tech guys on the phone either don't understand or recommend sending
it in for repair.
Any help would be appreciated.
uH
PS
Also this unit started getting "REPAIRING DISC" messages during power up
after the first month I had it. The manual says power was cut during
record. This happend 3 to 4 times a week for a couple of months then
stopped. That was definitely a hard drive failure problem, file or
directory structure problems, maybe. I never lost power and I never had
bad files. Don't why this happened or went away. Maybe it can't fix the
problem anymore.
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Brian
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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Micro Henry <uH@MyServer.Loc> wrote:
| Quote: | My DVR-520H has developed a problem when using High Speed Copying from the
HD to the DVD. This has happened in many copression modes. The one I use
the most is MN7. It will always do realtime copies.
Symptoms.
Record Mode MN7
The hard drive as around 1000Mb or more of 76000Mb of useable storage
space, about 1hr or more at MN7(hard drive is near full).
The file being copied is 500Mb, about 30min
The DVD is new or empty, 4454Mb about 4-1/2 hours at MN7
From the copy menu I select HDD to DVD
Add, the file.
conf list
select High Speed Copy.
Select start
Immediately it starts the copy and then gives up. The Screen displays
"Cannot Complete Copy" The front panel display is: "COPY ERR"
The first time this happened I determined the hard drive may have READ
ERRORs.
I took the 30min file in question and divided it in 2. Found which half
the error is in, divided that in two, etc. I saved a 3min file with the
read error that would not copy. All the division processing was done the in
the EDIT CHAPTER mode of the copy menu. The original file was not
altered.
Once I determined what segment of the file was bad, I used the normal
chapter edit to save only the segment with the error. I locked that file
so I would not be accidentally deleted.
After doing this the problem went away. It has since returned. The file
I experimented with tonight, when divided both halves of the segment that
was defective would copy individually. What a surprise that was! If I
removed the first 20 seconds the entire 30min file would copy. Of the 9
minutte segment with the read error, if I deleted minute 9, that segment
would copy or if I deleted the first 20 seconds it would copy. Weird.
This make it hard to diagnos it as a Read Error. But something in the
file structure is corrupted.
Nowhere in the manual are COPY ERRORS defined, i.e. causes, types,
descriptions.
Is anyone familiar with this unit enough to know if it is
1) Hard drive
2) Firmware
3) Hardware
4) Operator head space
I have hard 30 years in the hard drive industry testing drives. This acts
more like a system problem then a drive problem. But I would NOT rule out
the drive here.
Don't really want to send this in for repair and loose my files.
Most tech guys on the phone either don't understand or recommend sending
it in for repair.
Any help would be appreciated.
uH
PS
Also this unit started getting "REPAIRING DISC" messages during power up
after the first month I had it. The manual says power was cut during
record. This happend 3 to 4 times a week for a couple of months then
stopped. That was definitely a hard drive failure problem, file or
directory structure problems, maybe. I never lost power and I never had
bad files. Don't why this happened or went away. Maybe it can't fix the
problem anymore.
|
I own the model DVR-720H of the Pioneer DVD records and have had a
similar problem when using high speed copy to copy a video from the
HDD to DVD-RW disc. I got "Cannot complete copy message"
I recorded a program using MN14 (3 hour 10 min's) recording quality.
The recording was 1 hour 25 minutes and was 1875Mb.
At first I thought I didn't have enough space on the HDD. I free up 5
hours of HDD but got the same problem. A 1 hour video recorded at MN14
would copy using high speed copy.
In the end I copied the video from the HDD to the DVD using the MN14
quality mode. So it took 1 hour 25 minutes to record as I was unable
to use the high speed option.
I was copying to a VR formatted DVD-RW disc. I did not try a Video
formatted DVD-RW disc as I seem to remember a while back when this
happened that it could record to one type of DVD and not the other.
Were you trying to record to a DVD that had been formatted as VR at
the time?
Did you edit the video you were trying to copy?
Maybe with some more experimenting we can find the cause of the
problem.
I don't think it's any error in the original recording else I would
not be able to copy it at a slower speed. Maybe I needed more than 5
hours disk space ( space at SP) to be able to copy the file at high
speed.
It might be worth while asking Pioneer at
http://208.220.235.52:7001/eSupportJSP/SolutionFind.jsp
I was thinking of doing this.
Regards Brian |
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Micro Henry
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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Brian wrote:
| Quote: | I own the model DVR-720H of the Pioneer DVD records and have had a
similar problem when using high speed copy to copy a video from the
HDD to DVD-RW disc. I got "Cannot complete copy message"
I recorded a program using MN14 (3 hour 10 min's) recording quality.
The recording was 1 hour 25 minutes and was 1875Mb.
At first I thought I didn't have enough space on the HDD. I free up 5
hours of HDD but got the same problem. A 1 hour video recorded at MN14
would copy using high speed copy.
In the end I copied the video from the HDD to the DVD using the MN14
quality mode. So it took 1 hour 25 minutes to record as I was unable
to use the high speed option.
I was copying to a VR formatted DVD-RW disc. I did not try a Video
formatted DVD-RW disc as I seem to remember a while back when this
happened that it could record to one type of DVD and not the other.
Were you trying to record to a DVD that had been formatted as VR at
the time?
Did you edit the video you were trying to copy?
Maybe with some more experimenting we can find the cause of the
problem.
I don't think it's any error in the original recording else I would
not be able to copy it at a slower speed. Maybe I needed more than 5
hours disk space ( space at SP) to be able to copy the file at high
speed.
It might be worth while asking Pioneer at
http://208.220.235.52:7001/eSupportJSP/SolutionFind.jsp
I was thinking of doing this.
Regards Brian
|
Brian,
Thanks for your valued input.
| Quote: | At first I thought I didn't have enough space on the HDD. I free up 5
hours of HDD but got the same problem. A 1 hour video recorded at MN14.
I thought the same thing and freeing up space has no effect. |
| Quote: | Were you trying to record to a DVD that had been formatted as VR at
the time?
DVD-RW VR mode |
| Quote: | Did you edit the video you were trying to copy?
In this case the content was not edited. |
| Quote: | I don't think it's any error in the original recording else I would
not be able to copy it at a slower speed. Maybe I needed more than 5
hours disk space ( space at SP) to be able to copy the file at high
speed.
I originally thought the same thing. However, the compression/decompression |
scheme is able to handle defects. DVD's are riddled with errors, it's the
nature of the beast. The error correction handles most of them. The rest
are hidden in the compression. Those that are blatant hard errors, like a
big circumferential scratch, won't play back at all.
This acts like a bad byte or so in one cluster, not enough to upset the
video, but would interrupt a binary copy(High Speed Mode). This is just an
opinion, no technical data to support it. The answer to the next question
below tells me this is wrong!
| Quote: | I was copying to a VR formatted DVD-RW disc. I did not try a Video
formatted DVD-RW disc as I seem to remember a while back when this
happened that it could record to one type of DVD and not the other.
It was a DVD-RW formatted in VR mode. DVD-RW Video mode or DVD-R(by default |
is video mode) does HIGH SPEED copies as you experienced. I did not know
this until now. I only format RW in VR mode. This allows high speed copies
of individual files. I can do some sneaky editing and keep the original
content with the chapter marks intact. In the Video mode, the chapter marks
are moved +/- 15 frames, edit points are altered and only realtime copies are
possible.
actually come and talk to consumers on the phone. I don't need lips service
or question like: did you plug in the unit to the wall.
Lastly, I have another unit that the HDD is also full. It has never failed.
Everything I have recorded has copied to DVD in the high speed mode. This is
why the unit is suspected.
The difference to the other unit, is DVD's made here are mostly DVD-Rs, and
as noted above they do High Speed copies on files that the DVD-RW VR mode
won't.
This may be a quirk in the VR Mode that has no fix.
Let me know what you think.
uH |
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Micro Henry
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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Micro Henry <uH@MyServer.Loc> wrote in
| Quote: | It was a DVD-RW formatted in VR mode. DVD-RW Video mode or DVD-R(by
default is video mode) does HIGH SPEED copies as you experienced. I did
not know this until now.
|
WELLLLL! I was testing the Video mode will I wrote this and it was executing
fine. After I sent my message to you I returned to the TV and found that the
520H had hung up and did NOT complete a copy.
Summary,
The VR mode displays and error message:
"Cannot Complete Copy" The front panel display is: "COPY ERR"
The Video mode just stops, and locks out the DVD drive select. Only pressing
ONE TOUCH for 1 sec return the unit back to normal. It stay hung
indefinitly.
Back to my original conclusion, the hard drive has READ ERRORs! and need to
be replaced.
uH |
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Micro Henry
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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Micro Henry wrote:
| Quote: |
Back to my original conclusion, the hard drive has READ ERRORs! and need
to be replaced.
|
For now, I have saved the 9min, 127Mb as a READ ERROR file, and locked it so
that it can't be accidentaly deleted. This worked for the other file 3min
that occurred a month ago. Unfortunatedly, if the disc has surface error
flaws, they will grow with time, until the destroy a large section and
eventually end up crashing. I hope to get the drive replaced before the
crash occurrs. That is probably hours away.
uH |
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Brian
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 4:40 am Post subject:
Re: Pioneer DVR-520H High Speed Copy Error |
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Micro Henry <uH@MyServer.Loc> wrote:
| Quote: | Micro Henry <uH@MyServer.Loc> wrote in
It was a DVD-RW formatted in VR mode. DVD-RW Video mode or DVD-R(by
default is video mode) does HIGH SPEED copies as you experienced. I did
not know this until now.
WELLLLL! I was testing the Video mode will I wrote this and it was executing
fine. After I sent my message to you I returned to the TV and found that the
520H had hung up and did NOT complete a copy.
Summary,
The VR mode displays and error message:
"Cannot Complete Copy" The front panel display is: "COPY ERR"
The Video mode just stops, and locks out the DVD drive select. Only pressing
ONE TOUCH for 1 sec return the unit back to normal. It stay hung
indefinitly.
Back to my original conclusion, the hard drive has READ ERRORs! and need to
be replaced.
uH
|
I've had the problem of a recording not being completed when recording
directly to DVD-RW disc. If I was recording a 1 hour show off TV then
I might only get 40 minutes of the show before the recorder stopped
recording. I found that the DVD media was the problem. I stopped using
the Sony discs (that I brought cheap) and used Verbatim discs.
At this stage it difficult to know what is causing it and maybe other
Pioneer users are unaware of the problem or have not reported it.
I wonder if the drive needs defragging as there are a lot of videos
that are recorded and deleted.
If you discover the cause and maybe a fix for the problem then please
post it to this newsgroup or e-mail me the result bclark@es.co.nz
I will do the same if I discover more about the problem.
Regards Brian |
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poduljin
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject:
Pioneer HD-DVD copy errors |
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(Thx to Micro henry for redirecting me to the right group)
I'll try to describe my problems:
Recorder: Pioneer DVR-433 HS, about 5 weeks old.
About 100 hours recorded to HDD and most of it transferred to DVD-Rs (about 25 of them).
Media: only Traxdata DVD-Rs (8x, 25-spindles, branded).
Recording mode: SP, MN9, MN18, MN 19, MN21.
Format (HDD & DVD-R): Video (never used VR), all Finalized
(Titles mentioned after are all recorded in MN18, MN19 or SP)
Day before yesterday I destroyed a few DVD-Rs trying to find out what's wrong: Tried to burn 5 titles on DVD-R, first in HighSpeed and then in Optimized mode (difference: instead of stopping after a couple of minutes, as in HighSpeed copying, when recording in Optimized, recorder really writes something for two hours, but media is unreadable anywhere). Then I tried with other 3 titles, to see if the problem is with the source titles, but no luck either.
Yesterday I bought another spindle of Traxdata DVD-Rs, and after my testing with DVD-RW went fine, I successfully burned the 5 titles which gave me trouble the day before (HighSpeed mode). Encouraged, I tried to burn the other 3 titles on another DVD-R and got the "copy err" again (6th coaster already). I immediately inserted another empty DVD-R and it went fine! (HighSpeed also) So, results from the second day: 2 OK, 1 dead...
After that I reset the recorder (btw, it doesn't erase recordings on HDD), erased all recordings from HDD, and then recorded 2 new titles from TV. I'll try to burn one of them tonight.
I don't think the HDD is damaged, because I successfully recorded the same titles the next day. I also find it hard to believe that 6 Traxdata DVD-Rs from 2 different spindles were defective (I almost exclusively use Traxdata, until now never had any problems with them, as with Verbatim or Imation). Problem cannot be in HighSpeed mode, because I destroyed one DVD-R recording in Optimized mode. I don't know much about DVD technology, but it seems to me that the laser/recording mechanism has to do something with it (or the firmware controlling it, whatever), because it seems to lose the track or something like that, and then it cannot continue or finish the recording.
(I've been to http://208.220.235.52:7001/eSupportJSP/SolutionFind.jsp, no luck with logging in ("partners only" extranet).)
P.S. Pardon my English, it's the best I can do |
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poduljin
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted:
Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:35 am Post subject:
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Recording went OK.
1:50h movie, recorded in SP, Video mode on HDD
copied to
Traxdata 8x DVD-R in HighSpeed, Video mode, finalized.
(Right now I don't have anything else to record, so...) |
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osbug
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:23 am Post subject:
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| I have a DVR-433 and have the same problem. After a chat with the service centre, they shall send me an firmware update-dvd that fix this problem. |
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