| Author |
Message |
Gilbert Bates
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:31 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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| Quote: |
If you're sane, get some new tubes and don't worry about the actual brand or
label. And don't listen to people peddling their wares as the best thing
since sliced bread.
Au contraire, *do* listen to people peddling their wares and weigh
their opinions with a good dose of common sense.
Nope. A surprisingly large number of tube sellers are stupid, incompetent or
crooked. No need to waste time listening to them.
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Well then, why don't you provide some names for the folks in the group
here so that we can avoid them all together? I'd go as far as stating
that there is probably as many that are smart, competent, honest, and
it would be well worth a persons time to weigh their opinion equally.
As for the tube sellers that post here on RAT or say on AGA, I've
*never* heard anyone come right out and say they've been ripped off by
any of them or that they don't know their product.
| Quote: | You wouldn't go out
and buy a Yugo, disregarding the folks trying to tell you what a pile
o' shit they are, would you?
Then, how can a tube seller be objective?
Oh come on, how can anyone buying anything from any seller know that |
the seller is being objective?
| Quote: | To get an informed opinion on anything
requires a little input from other sources, obviously.
Or you can consider doing your homework and test a sample of tubes for
yourself. Then do some research about who manufactures what for who. You'd
be surprised of the results.
Sure... |
| Quote: | As for LV, I've bought several thousands of dollars worth of tubes
from him over the last 5-7 years, he's close to me so it's quick
business.
OK. But is your supplier objective when it comes to his inventory?
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I'd say yes, he's been in business long enough and carries just about
everything available so he can be objective in that sense.
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François Yves Le Gal
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:10 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:31:58 GMT, Gilbert Bates <gilbert@peakpeak.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Well then, why don't you provide some names for the folks in the group
here so that we can avoid them all together?
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Why should I? |
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:37 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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"François Yves Le Gal" wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:31:58 GMT, Gilbert Bates <gilbert@peakpeak.com
wrote:
Well then, why don't you provide some names for the folks in the group
here so that we can avoid them all together?
Why should I?
|
Why should anyone.
Buyer beware.
I don't see what's to be gained if the thread degenerates to a slanging
match
about crooks and the good guys.
We would all like to know the facts about the tubes under consideration.
But LV did say the "New Tungsol" 6550A has greater gm than the
alternatives...
"Gm is *way* higher, up in the 9,000 - 10,000 range rather than
in the 6,000 - 7,000 range like the rest. The plates are the
same as all the other Reflektor stuff (good plates - no reason
not to re-use the design) but the guts are different, and
more/larger
radiators have been affixed to the grid rods. (Both at the top and
the bottom.) Has one top and two side getters, like the original.
Sounds *killer* in guitar amps and Leslie cabs. Looks cool, too.
;-)"
Now just what is the Ra, and U ?????
Where can I see the guranteed to be true data curves for the tube like in
tetrode and in triode?
And I don't wanna see reproduced curves or data sheets from 1960
Where is the data from samples thoroughly tested, and presented like the
data of 1960?
What is the anode dissipation?
Just what justification is there to support the higher price?
Since the KT90EH is about the same price, but a much more gutsy
tube, does it not represent far better value?
Or does the 6550EH at a lower price represent better value????
Would not a quad of 5881 do a better job than a pair of 6550?
I make no apologies for the questions.
But how could anyone decide a tube was worth the price asked if there were
no
answers to the above questions?
Patrick Turner. |
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speddling
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:12 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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Patrick Turner wrote:
| Quote: | Or does the 6550EH at a lower price represent better value????
|
Gahhhh.... I've been reading and asking and calling and talking and
emailing and posting tubes since before the summer, made my amp purchase
(Peavey Tweed Classic 400 that fits 8x 6550/KT88) a couple months
back... cheaply without tubes (had a matched set of JJ KT88 but the
seller kept them for his SVT), so I could put the best from my research.
We'll the Holiday Bonus hit today and the order is being placed... but
I cannot choose!
Electro Harmonix KT88
Sovtek KT88
Tung-Sol 6550
the 2 KT88 will run me the same price... the TS are another $80 for the
octet. All have equal amounts of praise and bash in my research.
Not to hijack this thread any more then it is.... for a bass amp, which
would you choose and why? |
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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speddling wrote:
| Quote: | Patrick Turner wrote:
Or does the 6550EH at a lower price represent better value????
Gahhhh.... I've been reading and asking and calling and talking and
emailing and posting tubes since before the summer, made my amp purchase
(Peavey Tweed Classic 400 that fits 8x 6550/KT88) a couple months
back... cheaply without tubes (had a matched set of JJ KT88 but the
seller kept them for his SVT), so I could put the best from my research.
We'll the Holiday Bonus hit today and the order is being placed... but
I cannot choose!
Electro Harmonix KT88
Sovtek KT88
Tung-Sol 6550
the 2 KT88 will run me the same price... the TS are another $80 for the
octet. All have equal amounts of praise and bash in my research.
Not to hijack this thread any more then it is.... for a bass amp, which
would you choose and why?
|
If I knew you were always going to seriously overdrive in a bass amp mainly
operating
in low bias class AB then tubes that will take the bash and not be too
expensive is
criteria for choice.
So the 6550EH will do imho, and buying NOS jan GE6550A isn't warranted.
You may blow a few along the way, and be forced to run non matched tubes.
Whart's that a bulge in yer pocket?
Oh, spare tubes for the evnin' entertainments......
Patrick Turner. |
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robert casey
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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| Quote: | Not to hijack this thread any more then it is.... for a bass amp, which
would you choose and why?
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Well, the bass column in the local paper says striped bass
are biting on flys and earthworms this week.....
:-) |
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robert casey
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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| Quote: |
We would all like to know the facts about the tubes under consideration.
But LV did say the "New Tungsol" 6550A has greater gm than the
alternatives...
"Gm is *way* higher, up in the 9,000 - 10,000 range rather than
in the 6,000 - 7,000 range like the rest.
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Excessive gm could cause the amp to oscillate, if there are
no grid stopper resistors. Which are not likely designed
in the amp as the designer didn't expect replacement tubes
to deviate from the industry spec for that particular tube. |
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Lord Valve
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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robert casey wrote:
| Quote: |
We would all like to know the facts about the tubes under consideration.
But LV did say the "New Tungsol" 6550A has greater gm than the
alternatives...
"Gm is *way* higher, up in the 9,000 - 10,000 range rather than
in the 6,000 - 7,000 range like the rest.
Excessive gm could cause the amp to oscillate, if there are
no grid stopper resistors. Which are not likely designed
in the amp as the designer didn't expect replacement tubes
to deviate from the industry spec for that particular tube.
|
Hey, sparky...
A Gm of 9K-11K is *spec*, it ain't "excessive." Most of the
other current shit is *low*. Every bass amp I'm familiar
with has grid stoppers, and any that don't (for whatever reason)
will get 'em added by any savvy tech who opens one up.
Not you, obviously.
Lord Valve
Expert |
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Lord Valve
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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François Yves Le Gal wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:00:19 -0500, speddling <speddling@yahoo.com> wrote:
I've been told by a couple amp techs (that know I wouldn't be buying
from them) that the new sensor Tung-sol are some of the best "current
production" 6550/KT88 tubes made for bass amp use.
Have they actually tested the tubes or are they just parroting what others
have said?
Sovtek KT88 and Tung-Sol
6550 that come from the New Sensor factory.... What is the truth?
New Sensor doesn't have a factory.
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Wrong.
Mike Mathews *owns* Reflektor. Where do you come off with this
bogus shit, froggy?
| Quote: | They usually relabel Russian tubes. The
very same tubes are usually available under their original brands on the
open market.
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They're Reflektors.
LV |
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iga
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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Hi !
| Quote: |
Wrong.
Mike Mathews *owns* Reflektor. Where do you come off with this
bogus shit, froggy?
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As far as I know Reflector was joint stock company about 50% state
owned. Tubes are only a small part of Reflector's production - they
make LCD displays and semiconductors of all kind as well.
New Sensor had an "exclusive contract" for some tubes made by
Reflector. I don't know if this situation is changed. If you know
something - please let us know.
Best regards,
--
Igor
http://www.arrakis.es/~igapop
.. |
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speddling
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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Patrick Turner wrote:
| Quote: |
If I knew you were always going to seriously overdrive in a bass amp mainly
operating
in low bias class AB then tubes that will take the bash and not be too
expensive is
criteria for choice.
So the 6550EH will do imho, and buying NOS jan GE6550A isn't warranted.
You may blow a few along the way, and be forced to run non matched tubes.
|
Thanks for the reply Patrick. "Praise and bash" was meant as in, techs
and users have done both about equally with the 3 I listed.
I've always played hifi typed bass amps and I use some full range
cabinets.
"seriously overdrive" has never been associated with my tone / rig in
the past.
here is my gear if anyone is interested
http://www.hartsafire.com/gear.htm |
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Ruud Broens
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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"speddling" <speddling@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c-6dneBgKMuaMlfcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
:
: I've always played hifi typed bass amps and I use some full range
: cabinets.
:
: "seriously overdrive" has never been associated with my tone / rig in
: the past.
: here is my gear if anyone is interested
: http://www.hartsafire.com/gear.htm
Great stuff, indeed :-)
6 string fretless, eh, pretty tough i imagine
Best wishes,
Rudy |
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François Yves Le Gal
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:29:32 GMT, Lord Valve <detritus@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | New Sensor doesn't have a factory.
Wrong.
Mike Mathews *owns* Reflektor.
|
Totally false. Reflektor (Saratov) is a joint stock company, with their
valve production representing maybe less than 1% of total output.
Here's their company profile:
"Reflector is a joint stock company (partially state-owned, partially
privately-owned) that has focused on the volume production of displays and
related products. Reflector became independent of the wholly state-owned
Volga Research and Development Institute in 1992. However, the two
organizations share the same building and jointly develop manufacturing
processes. Typically, Volga researches and develops up to the pilot
production stage, and then Reflector mass produces.
Reflector was founded in 1953 as a state-owned enterprise to manufacture
amplifier and receiver tubes principally for television and radio products.
During the late 1950s and through the 1960s, the company was Europe's
largest receiver tube manufacturing and design enterprise. With the advent
of the transistor, Reflector scaled back its tube manufacturing operations
and began to focus on display products. In 1971, the R&D institute developed
vacuum fluorescent display (VFD) technology. (The institute's scientists
acknowledge that their development came after Japanese development of VFDs).
VFD production began several years later. Now Reflector manufactures VFDs at
volumes of up to several million per year. These VFDs are used in avionics,
automobiles, and consumer and industrial electronics. During the WTEC visit
to Russia, panel members found VFD clocks produced by Reflector in many
Russian cars and buildings.
In 1973, the Volga Institute began to develop reflective passive matrix
liquid crystal displays. Soon after, Reflector began producing small LCDs
for watches. Reflector now produces LCDs at volumes of several million per
year for watches, games, and personal computers. Reflector's current focus
is on the production of VFDs for consumer electronics and avionics and
supertwisted nematic (STN) LCDs for computers and television.
Reflector not only produces tubes and display components, but also produces
specialty integrated circuits, semiconductor lasers, photodetectors, and
finished consumer goods incorporating displays such as games. Reflector also
produces specialty glass products such as streetlight envelopes, vases, and
drinking glasses."
Matthews - not Mathews, as you incorrectly spell his name - has entered into
a form of partnership with them, taking out around 4% of their total output
and reselling it under his brands, new or resurrected. He doesn't own
Reflektor, either directly or indirectly.
| Quote: | Where do you come off with this bogus shit, froggy?
|
Thank you for publicly demonstrating - again - that you're a bigot,
shithead.
| Quote: | They usually relabel Russian tubes. The
very same tubes are usually available under their original brands on the
open market.
They're Reflektors.
|
Totally false. New Sensor has bought and buys tubes from Reflector as well
as from other Russian factories such as Polarjon, Novisibursk, Voshkod or
Ulyanov. For instance, their 5U4G, 5Y3GT, 6SN7, 6SL7 as well as some 12AX7's
aren't manufactured at Reflektor.
Now the real question is: if you're so ill-informed on who makes what, how
can you be trusted as a supplier? |
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François Yves Le Gal
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:00:07 +0100, "iga" <igapop@arrakis.es> wrote:
| Quote: | As far as I know Reflector was joint stock company about 50% state
owned. Tubes are only a small part of Reflector's production - they
make LCD displays and semiconductors of all kind as well.
New Sensor had an "exclusive contract" for some tubes made by
Reflector. I don't know if this situation is changed.
|
The sitiuation hasn't changed and you're 100% correct. |
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speddling
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: False/rebranded tubes |
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Ruud Broens wrote:
| Quote: | "speddling" <speddling@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c-6dneBgKMuaMlfcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
:
: I've always played hifi typed bass amps and I use some full range
: cabinets.
:
: "seriously overdrive" has never been associated with my tone / rig in
: the past.
: here is my gear if anyone is interested
: http://www.hartsafire.com/gear.htm
Great stuff, indeed :-)
6 string fretless, eh, pretty tough i imagine
Best wishes,
Rudy
|
Thanks Rudy, Yeah, it's amazing how many *extra* notes you can find on
an extended range fretless ;) I have my basses built by a guy named
Chris Benavente in Oregon. http://www.benaventeguitars.com and my
cabinets built by Jorg Schroeder in Los Angeles
http://www.schroedercabinets.com |
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