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Billy Joe
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:53 am Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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Jeremy Wrinklebottom wrote:
| Quote: | "Orak Listalavostok" <oraklistal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44d113e9.0406250808.5449b1c0@posting.google.com...
Thanks for all your kind help and I hope posting these lab
notes will help tens of thousands of others "stand on the
shoulders of giants", which is how mankind progresses.
Orak Listalavostok
wow....................... Oral Kistalotocok!!!
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It's particularly nasty to dick with a handle, though not
necessarily visa versa ;-)
| Quote: | with those parting words...you should have been a poet
not a scientist!!!! |
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:27 am Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"Jeremy Wrinklebottom" <jeremy@wrinkle.bottom> wrote in message news:<40dcade2$0$16103$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
| Quote: | you should have been a poet not a scientist!!!!
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Thanks for the recommendation. I prefer spending time starting
where others left off & then improving the process from there.
Our work can always be reproduced by anyone following the same
logical steps (whereas poetry is an amalgam of finite thoughts
scattered whimsically about, inconsistently constrained &
ordained by rhyme or reason).
But that is another subject for a different posting to other
newsgroups.
When I returned to the apartment four hours later, the makeshift
tivo AVI file filled half the hard disk (average = 2.5 MB/sec).
After a few hours of chomping on this data, Pinnacle Studio 9
crashed, leaving an incomplete set of DVD VIDEO_TS/*.VOB files.
Undeterred, I plan to resume our quest anew tomorrow & try again
to test how a very large AVI may be saved to DVD format &
compressed (somehow) to fit 4.7 GB restrictions.
Orak Listalavostok |
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Barry OGrady
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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The cheapest way to burn VHS tape is to throw it in a fire.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information. |
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Biz
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"Orak Listalavostok" <oraklistal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44d113e9.0406252227.5c694282@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "Jeremy Wrinklebottom" <jeremy@wrinkle.bottom> wrote in message
news:<40dcade2$0$16103$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
you should have been a poet not a scientist!!!!
Thanks for the recommendation. I prefer spending time starting
where others left off & then improving the process from there.
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Others have already been there done that, and documented it in guides and
tutorials so that even the great scientist Orak may understand it...and
remove the cross-post to a cdr group, since that is not relevent at all for
your post topic.
www.dvdrhelp.com |
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"Biz" <biznospam@notatt.net> wrote in message news:<eZfDc.140846$Gx4.70651@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
| Quote: | Others have already been there done that, and documented it ...
To test this new hypothesis, I will need to run this makeshift
Rube Goldberg TIVO system for a few hours to create a very
large (greater than 4.7 GB) VIDEO_TS/*.VOB DVD directory.
If Studio 9.1.2 then compresses that large VIDEO_TS DVD directory
as my hypothesis assumes, then others may successfully follow in
my (well documented) footsteps.
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Thanks to your help (especially the tons of advice that users sent
to my email address) and a half-dozen experiments tweaking the
software, I was easily able to successfully overcome that last
hurdle of large amounts of data to be rendered to MPEG-2 and then
to be compiled to DVD VIDEO_TS/*.VOB format under 4.7 GB in size.
Using Pinnacle Studio 9.1.2, & having captured the data at full
resolution, simply setting the output resolution to its lowest
notch (of 3,000 Kbits/sec) still left 18 minutes of a 33 GB avi
test file off the 4.7 GB DVD disc (i.e., only 131 minutes of
captured video fit on a DVD disc at 3000 Kbits/sec resolution).
Obviously, something more than just resolution needed to be modified.
That key adjustment was simply to switch the Studio 9 DVD audio
encoding format from PCM audio, to MPEG audio. Voila!
How does this work?
Switching the encoding format for DVD audio from pulse code
modulation, i.e., linear digital audio, at 16 bits per sample
for two channels, at 48 (or 32 or 44.1?) KHz, to MPEG reduces
the storage requirements greatly - I even had 35 minutes free
space on the DVD disc (150 minutes on disk at 40% quality).
Extrapolating and stepping up the resolution bit by bit, we
arrived at the optimal settings for fitting this 150 minutes of
captured video to a single disk to be 3750 Kbits/second resolution,
MPEG (vs PCM) audio encoding, & video filtering turned on.
This provided 150 minutes on disc, with only 14 seconds free.
By tweaking these settings, the quality rose from 40% to 46%.
Contraindications:
- DVD video quality at 3750 Kbits/second (i.e., 46%) is not stellar.
- Image sharpness is slightly reduced by the filter-video setting.
- MPEG audio is required on PAL and, in practice, widely supported
in NTSC video players; yet, it may not be universally supported.
In summary, simply tweaking the Kbits/second settings did NOT do
enough to fit a large (33 GByte, 150 minute) video to DVD; more
needed to be done. A log of the experiments performed to date will
be appended so that others may reproduce with the results shown.
Orak Listalavostok |
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Jeremy Wrinklebottom
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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| Quote: | To test this new hypothesis, I will need to run this makeshift
Rube Goldberg TIVO system for a few hours to create a very
large (greater than 4.7 GB) VIDEO_TS/*.VOB DVD directory.
If Studio 9.1.2 then compresses that large VIDEO_TS DVD directory
as my hypothesis assumes, then others may successfully follow in
my (well documented) footsteps.
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blah blah blah , dribble dribble dribble , ....ZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!!!
you seriously need to sit down and do some internet searching.
you can get all the information you need from about 5 websites,
the bit rates you are experimenting with... you may as well LEAVE the fu@#er
on the vhs tape.
dvd's are supposed to be for good quality video and audio.
most people who put there home movies from their dv camcorder , won't try
and put much more than 1 hour on a dvdr, the sacrifice in quality , is just
not worth it.
you start getting footage of sport, or anything with fast movement , on the
bit rates you are fooling around with,
and you will see for yourself... it's frightening !!!!
anyone who has watched wwe pay per view etc , (through a decent tv)will
know.
it takes the average "joe" a couple of hours of internet searching and
reading to workout
that anything less than 6000 vbr is a waste of time unless you have started
with a real top notch quality
source,( professional high quality encoder) and even then you will be
pushing it to go lower than 5000 vbr.
here's a start .....
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/guides.htm
http://www.doom9.org/dvd-basics.htm
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/
http://www.dvdhelp.us/html/sefy/
http://www.videohelp.com/
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?listall=1
http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdvideo/dvdvid_intro.htm
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/index.html |
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:52 am Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"ned ludd" <luddite@neoluddites.ark> wrote in message news:<CzcCc.51001$sj4.48058@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
| Quote: | "Orak Listalavostok" <oraklistal@yahoo.com> wrote
My second question revolves around how to burn this final 8 Gbyte
MPEG-2 file to a normal DVD (about 4 1/2 gigabytes). Studio 9.1 says
the file is too large to burn to DVD. Is there a way to tell it
(Studio-9.1) to squish (compress) the MPG-2 file by 50%?
Remake the mpeg with a lower bitrate.
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Unfortunately, Pinnacle Systems' Studio 9 can (apparently) ONLY
set the rendering bitrate from 3,000 Kbits/second to 8,000 Kbits/sec.
Even the lowest setting (3000 Kbits/second) isn't enough sometimes.
So, MORE was needed than just set the bitrate (Studio 9 would not
accept 2500 Kbits/second, for example).
The trick, I learned, was to switch from the default PCM audio
endoding to the slightly less standard (for NTSC) MPG encoding.
MPEG audio made a HUGE difference in the size of the rendered files!
Using MPEG audio encoding instead of the default PCM audio encoding
allowed me to up the rendering bitrate from the 3,000 Kbits/sec (at
40% quality) to 3,750 Kbits/sec (at 46% quality) leaving only about
15 seconds of blank disk space on a single-layer 4.7 GB DVD+R disc
for a 150 minute 33,242,600 KB uncompressed AVI digital capture file.
- Original AVI = 33.2 GB (33,242,600 KBytes) ( 1 file)
- Rendered MPG = 12.4 GB (13,319,897,088 bytes) (56 files)
- Compiled DVD = 4.25 GB (4,571,095,040 bytes) (12 files)
The only (albeit minor) question I have left is about the CBR vs VBR
setting. The Pinnacle Systems' Studio 9 manual suggested using a
variable bit rate when size is of the essence; yet, setting the
bitrate to 3750 Kbits/second seems (to me) to be setting a constant
bit rate.
Anyone know where the VBR come into play in this (large file) scenario?
Orak Listalavostok |
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:19 am Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"Phillip" <phil@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40d965a8$0$18191$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
| Quote: | Its best to keep to the facts, not to get emotional, you have turned from
asking for help to having a go [at PDTV in your defense] ...
Using Gladiator as the example was asking for someone to crack a joke
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I stand publically chastised before you & accept the well-deserved censure.
Peer review is the best elixir for such squalid behavior as I exhibited.
I especially thank those of you who took the time to send me numerous
private emails detaling whom to trust on these groups, & whom to ignore
without banter or convictive non-technical comment.
I hope my subsequent responses (as noted these last few days) are
sufficiently unemotional & are generous with technical fact devoid
of unsubstantiated opinion such as I shamefully exhibited previously.
Mea culpa,
Orak Listalavostok |
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Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:30 am Post subject:
Re: Burning magnetic tape to DVD without fancy equipment (8m |
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"Jeremy Wrinklebottom" <jeremy@wrinkle.bottom> wrote in message news:<40debe7a$0$16103$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
| Quote: | at the bit rates you are experimenting with... you may as well
LEAVE the fu@#er on the vhs tape. dvd's are supposed to be for
good quality video and audio. most people who put there home
movies from their dv camcorder , won't try and put much more
than 1 hour on a dvdr, the sacrifice in quality , is just
not worth it ... anything less than 6000 vbr is a waste of
time unless you have started with a real top notch quality
source,( professional high quality encoder) and even then
you will be pushing it to go lower than 5000 vbr.
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As many of you noted to me in your emails, the main point for
one person's DVD is not the same as to another.
That is, the main point to me is the data format; not the
video quality (vbr). For me, the video quality is secondary
to the fact that (volatile & hard-to-play) magtape data is
(finally) on (somewhat) safer (easy to play) hard plastic disc.
I realize this is a personal preference (i.e., YMMV) but,
for me anyway, just being able to play a contiguous home movie
of the children & grandchildren & relatives who are no longer
with us far outweighs the alternative ... that is, I have
scores of Hi8 tapes ... yet I no longer even own a Hi8 camcorder.
I fear this mechanical problem will only get worse in the future
for many of us ... unless we standardize on a particular format
(and digital discs are a good start in my humble opinion).
Another problem I have is storage space. I purchased almost
every (if not every) Disney & Pixar & Universal (etc.) family
movie there is ... which takes up entire closets, wall to
wall, and then some. Converting these, say a day at a time,
via a documented method, one complete tape (no matter how long)
per DVD will save space. The grandchildred won't ruin the tapes.
If they scratch the DVD (which they will), I can easily make a
backup.
Again, my point is that the video quality is a (vastly) secondary
to the storage format & perceived quality (vbr).
A third consideration is that my television, purchased a
few decades ago, isn't ever going to provide DVD-quality video
& audio anyway (although who knows what the future may bring).
blah blah blah
In summary, storing magtape video onto DVD plastic disc in a
1:1 ratio of tape:disc is, to some people, more important
than the perceived quality of the video (i.e., video bitrate).
It's the quality (vbr) that doesn't matter in this case.
Orak Listalavostok |
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