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Patrick Turner
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Fabio Berutti wrote:
| Quote: | Training pigs to fly is much easier than training the world to be a fairer
place for all.
If You can teach pigs to fly, You're half way, 'cos You can then teach 'em
to... ehm... evacuate on any prime minister head they spot from above.
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Ah, such absolutely wonderful vertical thinking you have there Fabio.
Lateral thinking about pigs may not work so well....
| Quote: |
These fine guys will then be busy shampooing and the world will enjoy some
rest. I'm sure we need bosses just like a starving dog needs fleas.
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Yes, but the fleas still need the dog......
| Quote: |
Back to tubes, a Philetta radio from the 50s can still work today. OK, SS
cheap stuff is cheaper, but how many transistor radios have been scrapped in
the last 40 years?
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lots....
| Quote: | Price of any good should include "social" price, ie.
pollution to produce it, pollution to dispose of it, diseases produced by
this pollution and so on.
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They say that to make a PC, 700 times its weight of fuel has to be used.
Its ten times the amount needed to make a car.....
| Quote: | The present price of any good comes from a form
of "social dumping", ie. companies download on the shoulders of the rest of
the world many costs they produced.
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So is it a bit like NFB causing bad artifacts to occur in the signal? ( :-)
)
| Quote: |
If prices were correctly formulated the labor cost would account for 1/100th
of them, and producing anything here, there or everywhere would be
pointless.
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Well why not produce nothing anywhere, and after awhile, the labour cost would
go up,
and the workers would get more, after they shot the boss.
| Quote: |
Tubes are a good example of a technology that allowed to build stuff that
was functional enough, cheap enough and easy to repair so as to make it
virtually eternal. It was fine for the customer, but it provided not enough
profits.
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Yeah, but tubes did wear out. Nothing is eternal.
But I see what you mean. They ploughed all the profits into
marketting, to make sure folks felt awkward, guilty, ashamed, pissed off,
unhappy,
depressed, moribund, up the creek, downright angry, shitty,
cranky, envious, greedy, needy, wantonly, indulgent, lascievious,
and above all anxious about their daily existance that could only be
made better by buying the latest fucking crap that wasn't designed to last
more than 1 minute longer than the short warranty period.
| Quote: | Even these days "hardware" prices do not make such a difference, think of a
300B PP: four Russian tubes cost now some 400$, and they will last say 5-6
years even listening to the amp 8 hours per day, 365 days per year. A
quartet of Chinese ones can save say 100-150$, or 150/365/6=7 cents per day
in the very best scenario. Labour is in any case a fraction of this price
difference, say less than 1 cent per day.
And now the closure: is really the cheap Chinese work saving some money to
Western purchasers? Is it worh the pain, or it's just one more way for
mega-corporations to make mega-bucks?
How much does the labour cost influence the final price of some stuff which
is 99% made by robots?
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Ah, but you have to have the high priests to design the robots, and then more
robots to build robots,
and then the factories have to be built, and in 20 years its all is written off
and bulldozed so the next generation
of super gear appears, and what was cool is binned, to be forgotten in 5
minutes.
The majority of the labour is removed...
And the first technological and iconic modern communication experience
was the tube radio, so at least amougnst us oldies we revere them,
cherish them, restore the bleedin things, and hopefully the grand kids
won't park them in the dumpster.
But what will they know about the beginning of an age?
They seem so distracted by gadgetry widgetry and fashion they notice nothing
else.
But still 2/3 of the world does not have a phone or clean water.
| Quote: |
Anyway, happy New Year... I don't think it will be, but hoping is free.
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Yes, and you never hear anyone saying
" Just you lie down here luvvy, it won't costyer anyfink ".
Patrick Turner.
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cupsoccer
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Exactly ! Cheap Chinese copy junk is polluting the world , even the
KT88's that work usually crap out after a few weeks , dry joints on the
pins are common also , makes me wonder if there's any QC at all . Think
of all the greenhouse gasses produced during manufacture of the
internal parts ? After a year when the junk goes in the trashcan , it's
just not worth it . Even those TJ's are pretty crap , had 2 out of four
mesh 300B arrive with lost vacuum .
| Quote: |
I know folks who have experienced 40% failure rates for chinese KT88
in a year, and others that have had excessive variations in biasing
points
for randomly picked samples.
This is all due to sloppy work.
Patrick Turner. |
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scottp
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:10 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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My experience is that if you run plate votages of 450 and under
the chineese KT88s run pretty well. I like the sound of them alot.
I run them with a plate dissipation of 25W and they last for a
long time. I don't think they like 40W plate dissipation like
the GECs will do.
I heard that the chineese kt88s are getting better too.
The chineese 6l6gc is a pretty tough tube for sure. They
run great for my experience.
I like alot of the chineese tubes, the 12ax7s sound great
in guitar amps.
Hope they keep on makin em'.
Scott
cupsoccer wrote:
| Quote: | Exactly ! Cheap Chinese copy junk is polluting the world , even the
KT88's that work usually crap out after a few weeks , dry joints on the
pins are common also , makes me wonder if there's any QC at all . Think
of all the greenhouse gasses produced during manufacture of the
internal parts ? After a year when the junk goes in the trashcan , it's
just not worth it . Even those TJ's are pretty crap , had 2 out of four
mesh 300B arrive with lost vacuum .
I know folks who have experienced 40% failure rates for chinese KT88
in a year, and others that have had excessive variations in biasing
points
for randomly picked samples.
This is all due to sloppy work.
Patrick Turner.
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Ruud Broens
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:26 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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"scottp" <scottp@juniper.net> wrote in message
news:41C3596D.9040207@juniper.net...
: My experience is that if you run plate votages of 450 and under
: the chineese KT88s run pretty well. I like the sound of them alot.
: I run them with a plate dissipation of 25W and they last for a
: long time. I don't think they like 40W plate dissipation like
: the GECs will do.
:
: I heard that the chineese kt88s are getting better too.
:
: The chineese 6l6gc is a pretty tough tube for sure. They
: run great for my experience.
:
: I like alot of the chineese tubes, the 12ax7s sound great
: in guitar amps.
:
: Hope they keep on makin em'.
:
Of that, you can be sure. Think 'coastal' China in the 2000's
is like Japan just post WW2....
btw in some fields, they are already surpassing
german industrial manufactured goods...
lower mtbf lower doa lower pricing very just in time
are some-factors- at-work
Rudy
: Scott |
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Gregg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:34 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Behold, Patrick Turner signalled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
| Quote: | I am a minimalist.
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Sure is a lot less of a headache, isn't it?
--
Gregg t3h g33k
"Ratings are for transistors....tubes have guidelines"
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca |
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Stevey
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:35 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Does any of you older folks remember the Japanese used to make junks from
after the 2nd world war ?
Do they still make junk today ?
Steve
"cupsoccer" <pushpulluk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1103310669.584885.47060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Exactly ! Cheap Chinese copy junk is polluting the world , even the
KT88's that work usually crap out after a few weeks , dry joints on the
pins are common also , makes me wonder if there's any QC at all . Think
of all the greenhouse gasses produced during manufacture of the
internal parts ? After a year when the junk goes in the trashcan , it's
just not worth it . Even those TJ's are pretty crap , had 2 out of four
mesh 300B arrive with lost vacuum .
I know folks who have experienced 40% failure rates for chinese KT88
in a year, and others that have had excessive variations in biasing
points
for randomly picked samples.
This is all due to sloppy work.
Patrick Turner.
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Gregg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:50 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Behold, Stevey signalled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
| Quote: | Does any of you older folks remember the Japanese used to make junks
from after the 2nd world war ?
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Yes.
| Quote: | Do they still make junk today ?
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Not for the most part.
Beware of Japanese names on the front with "Made in China" stickers on the
back.
--
Gregg t3h g33k
"Ratings are for transistors....tubes have guidelines"
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca |
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:13 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Gregg wrote:
| Quote: | Behold, Patrick Turner signalled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
I am a minimalist.
Sure is a lot less of a headache, isn't it?
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ya.
Patrick T.
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west
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:54 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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"Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
| Quote: | I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang factory.
Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a partner
of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
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Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail cage is
for?
Cordially,
west |
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robert casey
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:29 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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The way this thread headed, some "red state-rs"
might think we advocate communism or some
such damm thing. Though the communists
are likely running that factory in the first
place.....
Better dead than red! ..... ;-) |
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ABC
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:23 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:41C4F825.6793082E@turneraudio.com.au...
| Quote: |
west wrote:
"Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang factory.
Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a
partner
of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail cage
is
for?
To stop honest workers pilfering the stocks of new tubes, or the test
gear.
The dishonest workers leap over the fence, since the cage has no roof.
One tube is worth a week's wages, and the temptation to take a
tube home and sell it on the black market must be hard for the poor
bastards to
resist.
Patrick Turner.
Cordially,
west
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For the benefit of those who don't read Chinese, it is actually a Faraday to
cage for excluding extraneous fields during final testing.
Donk |
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Gregg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:23 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Behold, Patrick Turner signalled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
| Quote: | west wrote:
"Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang
factory. Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a
partner of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail
cage is for?
To stop honest workers pilfering the stocks of new tubes, or the test
gear. The dishonest workers leap over the fence, since the cage has no
roof.
One tube is worth a week's wages, and the temptation to take a tube home
and sell it on the black market must be hard for the poor bastards to
resist.
Patrick Turner.
|
Heh, not just in China. I was warned by fellow tube buddy, Vasiliok, that
shipping some Canadian items to him in Lithuania is risky, because what
may be a dime-item in Canada or the US can be a weeks worth of wages to
the postmen there.
--
Gregg t3h g33k
"Ratings are for transistors....tubes have guidelines"
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca |
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:23 am Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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west wrote:
| Quote: | "Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang factory.
Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a partner
of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail cage is
for?
|
To stop honest workers pilfering the stocks of new tubes, or the test gear.
The dishonest workers leap over the fence, since the cage has no roof.
One tube is worth a week's wages, and the temptation to take a
tube home and sell it on the black market must be hard for the poor bastards to
resist.
Patrick Turner.
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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Gregg wrote:
| Quote: | Behold, Patrick Turner signalled from keyed 4-1000A filament:
west wrote:
"Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang
factory. Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a
partner of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail
cage is for?
To stop honest workers pilfering the stocks of new tubes, or the test
gear. The dishonest workers leap over the fence, since the cage has no
roof.
One tube is worth a week's wages, and the temptation to take a tube home
and sell it on the black market must be hard for the poor bastards to
resist.
Patrick Turner.
Heh, not just in China. I was warned by fellow tube buddy, Vasiliok, that
shipping some Canadian items to him in Lithuania is risky, because what
may be a dime-item in Canada or the US can be a weeks worth of wages to
the postmen there.
|
Pilfering and port handling scams are rife in many parts of the world and
mostly
where the wages of the workers are pittance, and law and order is hard to
apply
because the system is run corruptly from the top.
Before anything is sent from here, I make sure its paid for in full,
and I have proof of the courier or post accepting it.
I insure it as well.
But I have not lost a single item in hundreds of packages and letters
sent in Oz over the last 30 years.
Patrick Turner.
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Patrick Turner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Pictures of Shuguang factory |
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|
ABC wrote:
| Quote: | "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:41C4F825.6793082E@turneraudio.com.au...
west wrote:
"Stevey" <stevey88remove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SFlwd.271814$R05.267636@attbi_s53...
I found a web page that describe the operation of the Shuguang factory.
Although it
is in Chinese, but the pictures are interesting. Note that LG is a
partner
of Shunguang for
CRT and LCD panels. This is why you see LG logo outside the factory.
http://www.ks-hifi.com/artical/shuguang/shuguang.htm
Steve
Thanks for the interesting head's up, Steve. I wonder what the jail cage
is
for?
To stop honest workers pilfering the stocks of new tubes, or the test
gear.
The dishonest workers leap over the fence, since the cage has no roof.
One tube is worth a week's wages, and the temptation to take a
tube home and sell it on the black market must be hard for the poor
bastards to
resist.
Patrick Turner.
Cordially,
west
For the benefit of those who don't read Chinese, it is actually a Faraday to
cage for excluding extraneous fields during final testing.
|
Ah, then they have no security measures.
Well, maybe I jest at their expense, but maybe they loose the odd tube,
but you do get plenty of pilfering anywhere one goes in any country
wherever it is possible to take anything, hoping the boss hasn't made a count.
Grave diggers world wide are renowned for removing the gold fillings out of the
teeth
of corpses and making off with any other jewelry and titanium leg joints.
At gold mining centres, workers try to enchorage gold dust to settle on them,
and then wash it off after each day and make that extra little Christmas bonus.
At a large brewery bottling depot I where I once worked, the management
gave up trying to stop pilfering of bottled beer so they installed a bar which
served free beer, and that wrecked even more lives.
There were drunkards everywhere.
Patrick Turner.
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