| Author |
Message |
ceedub
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:13 am Post subject:
DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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To all of you FOH gurus:
As bass player and unofficial sound guy for my band, I've become more atuned
to limitations in our FOH presentation. We have a fairly simple FOH setup. I
just picked up a DEQ2496, and I'm trying to evaluate the best way to use
this box to improve our FOH mix. Any recommendations on settings? Are you
using an FOH compressor at all? What about feedback elimination in the FOH
(we have a feedback box for monitors, which is our main feedback source)?
Stereo width and EQ? I'm just curious because we have an upcoming gig and
I'd like to put this box through its paces. The main reason I picked up this
unit was the versatility, so I'd imagine that it is useful for eliminating a
number of problems, specific to the venue. Nevertheless, I'm curious about
what you all accomplish with processors such as the DEQ2496 set up directly
in front of the FOH amps. In particular, I'm curious about the levels of
settings appropriate for best sound. I should say from the outset that we
tend towards blues and jazz, but occasionally delve into some classic rock
tunes, so we are not trying to "peg" the meters. We are trying to maintain
some dynamics.
Thanks for any and all suggestions. I'll admit I'm still learning and have a
long way to go.
Craig
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George Gleason
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:13 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
ceedub wrote:
| Quote: | To all of you FOH gurus:
As bass player and unofficial sound guy for my band, I've become more atuned
to limitations in our FOH presentation. We have a fairly simple FOH setup. I
just picked up a DEQ2496, and I'm trying to evaluate the best way to use
this box to improve our FOH mix. Any recommendations on settings? Are you
using an FOH compressor at all? What about feedback elimination in the FOH
(we have a feedback box for monitors, which is our main feedback source)?
Stereo width and EQ? I'm just curious because we have an upcoming gig and
I'd like to put this box through its paces. The main reason I picked up this
unit was the versatility, so I'd imagine that it is useful for eliminating a
number of problems, specific to the venue. Nevertheless, I'm curious about
what you all accomplish with processors such as the DEQ2496 set up directly
in front of the FOH amps. In particular, I'm curious about the levels of
settings appropriate for best sound. I should say from the outset that we
tend towards blues and jazz, but occasionally delve into some classic rock
tunes, so we are not trying to "peg" the meters. We are trying to maintain
some dynamics.
Thanks for any and all suggestions. I'll admit I'm still learning and have a
long way to go.
Craig
|
start with getting the behringer 8000 measurement mic(under 50$)
and learning the auto eq function
compression on fOHsound should be mild, high threshold(maybe 0 or
slightlyabove) and low ratio under 3 to 1 longish release maybe 1/10th
to 1/4 second
I generally do not use any auto feedback units
you can use the DEQ to make automatic eq changes as volume changes
such as more bass at low levels, less highs at very high level without
having to tweek the graphics
use the parametric to sort out single freq noises like feedback or drum ring
monitor your volume level on the pl meter keep under 105 dB at mix position
I find I am better at these decisions than boxes are
George |
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ceedub
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:29 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
"George Gleason" <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:hOaud.109119$7i4.73603@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | ceedub wrote:
To all of you FOH gurus:
As bass player and unofficial sound guy for my band, I've become more
atuned to limitations in our FOH presentation. We have a fairly simple
FOH setup. I just picked up a DEQ2496, and I'm trying to evaluate the
best way to use this box to improve our FOH mix. Any recommendations on
settings? Are you using an FOH compressor at all? What about feedback
elimination in the FOH (we have a feedback box for monitors, which is our
main feedback source)? Stereo width and EQ? I'm just curious because we
have an upcoming gig and I'd like to put this box through its paces. The
main reason I picked up this unit was the versatility, so I'd imagine
that it is useful for eliminating a number of problems, specific to the
venue. Nevertheless, I'm curious about what you all accomplish with
processors such as the DEQ2496 set up directly in front of the FOH amps.
In particular, I'm curious about the levels of settings appropriate for
best sound. I should say from the outset that we tend towards blues and
jazz, but occasionally delve into some classic rock tunes, so we are not
trying to "peg" the meters. We are trying to maintain some dynamics.
Thanks for any and all suggestions. I'll admit I'm still learning and
have a long way to go.
Craig
start with getting the behringer 8000 measurement mic(under 50$)
and learning the auto eq function
compression on fOHsound should be mild, high threshold(maybe 0 or
slightlyabove) and low ratio under 3 to 1 longish release maybe 1/10th
to 1/4 second
I generally do not use any auto feedback units
you can use the DEQ to make automatic eq changes as volume changes
such as more bass at low levels, less highs at very high level without
having to tweek the graphics
use the parametric to sort out single freq noises like feedback or drum
ring
monitor your volume level on the pl meter keep under 105 dB at mix
position
I find I am better at these decisions than boxes are
George
|
George:
Outstanding! Exaclty what I was looking for. I have the ECM8000, and am
practicing a little with it and the unit. Do you find the auto EQ function
useful?
The main reason I use auto feedback boxes on monitors is that my hands are a
bit busy during gigs playing bass. So, short of recruiting and training
someone to handle this for us, I need to make judicious decisions during
soundchecks about levels, etc. A feedback eliminator helps to some extent. I
don't think we really need it in the FOH mix because our mics are stationary
(for now). But, I thought a little extra insurance against FB might be nice,
especially for smaller reverberant venues.
In any event, thanks much for the suggestions. I'm definitely discovering
some interesting possibilities with this box; I really do like the DEQ
function because it eliminates alot of the compression artifacts I've
encountered when placing the comp between the mix and the main amps.
Cheers (and thanks for all of your good words in previous posts about the
DEQ2496)...
Craig |
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George Gleason
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:46 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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| Quote: |
George:
Outstanding! Exaclty what I was looking for. I have the ECM8000, and am
practicing a little with it and the unit. Do you find the auto EQ function
useful?
The Auto eq will only be as good as the curve you set it to align with
I set mine flat to 8K then roll off 1 dB more (1 db on the first, 2 on |
the second , 3 on the third)on each band out to 20K
this works well for my speakers
if you go flat all the way out it will sound shrill
the biggest problem a guy in your position will have is annoying people
while you do your work
as you are often setting up in open establishments
I set up primarily in closed rooms and am allotted time for proper tuning
George |
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Rob Beech
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:10 pm Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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| Quote: | the biggest problem a guy in your position will have is annoying people
while you do your work
as you are often setting up in open establishments
I set up primarily in closed rooms and am allotted time for proper tuning
George
|
We specify that on arrival the venue is to be closed to the public to allow
for such tuning (you have to admit it gets a bit noisy) however over 50% of
these allow people in to the room which gets annoying. What makes it worse
is when they tell you to turn it down and mention that you have got feedback
during a sound check and setup. They then get the impression that the band
are rubbish.
The times we do get to setup tune and soundcheck properly we near always end
up with a MUCH better sounding rig. But its up to them i suppose.
Rob |
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Neil Perrin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:01 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
|
|
"ceedub" <craigmw@EFOFFSPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:Qmbud.162$Sq.70@fed1read01...
| Quote: | "George Gleason" <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:hOaud.109119$7i4.73603@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
ceedub wrote:
To all of you FOH gurus:
As bass player and unofficial sound guy for my band, I've become more
atuned to limitations in our FOH presentation. We have a fairly simple
FOH setup. I just picked up a DEQ2496, and I'm trying to evaluate the
best way to use this box to improve our FOH mix. Any recommendations on
settings? Are you using an FOH compressor at all? What about feedback
elimination in the FOH (we have a feedback box for monitors, which is
our main feedback source)? Stereo width and EQ? I'm just curious because
we have an upcoming gig and I'd like to put this box through its paces.
The main reason I picked up this unit was the versatility, so I'd
imagine that it is useful for eliminating a number of problems, specific
to the venue. Nevertheless, I'm curious about what you all accomplish
with processors such as the DEQ2496 set up directly in front of the FOH
amps. In particular, I'm curious about the levels of settings
appropriate for best sound. I should say from the outset that we tend
towards blues and jazz, but occasionally delve into some classic rock
tunes, so we are not trying to "peg" the meters. We are trying to
maintain some dynamics.
Thanks for any and all suggestions. I'll admit I'm still learning and
have a long way to go.
Craig
start with getting the behringer 8000 measurement mic(under 50$)
and learning the auto eq function
compression on fOHsound should be mild, high threshold(maybe 0 or
slightlyabove) and low ratio under 3 to 1 longish release maybe 1/10th
to 1/4 second
I generally do not use any auto feedback units
you can use the DEQ to make automatic eq changes as volume changes
such as more bass at low levels, less highs at very high level without
having to tweek the graphics
use the parametric to sort out single freq noises like feedback or drum
ring
monitor your volume level on the pl meter keep under 105 dB at mix
position
I find I am better at these decisions than boxes are
George
George:
Outstanding! Exaclty what I was looking for. I have the ECM8000, and am
practicing a little with it and the unit. Do you find the auto EQ function
useful?
The main reason I use auto feedback boxes on monitors is that my hands are
a bit busy during gigs playing bass. So, short of recruiting and training
someone to handle this for us, I need to make judicious decisions during
soundchecks about levels, etc. A feedback eliminator helps to some extent.
I don't think we really need it in the FOH mix because our mics are
stationary (for now). But, I thought a little extra insurance against FB
might be nice, especially for smaller reverberant venues.
In any event, thanks much for the suggestions. I'm definitely discovering
some interesting possibilities with this box; I really do like the DEQ
function because it eliminates alot of the compression artifacts I've
encountered when placing the comp between the mix and the main amps.
Cheers (and thanks for all of your good words in previous posts about the
DEQ2496)...
Craig
|
Hi
I'm no expert but the one thing that i have found with the feedback
destroyer is if you leave any of the 10 available "auto" filters on "auto or
single" you may find that it keeps operating on all sorts of frequencies
throughout your gig.
I do sometimes use the auto and single filters when ringing out the system,
but then i CHANGE the settings on page 3 of the FBD menu.
On page 3 FBD menu - To ring out the system set the "sens" to -9 and the
"threshold" to -40, then ring out the system (i turn the gain up and let the
DEQ find the frequencies) and this will quickly and "quite" quietly find the
feedback frequencies, after you have done your ringing out set the "sens"
to -3 and "threshold" to 0, if you do not do this you will find the DEQ
keeps working on all your music. (i use this process for FOH and then
monitors)
Try an experiment - When you get your DEQ setup up, try playing a CD
throught the DEQ and set "sens" to -9 and "threshold" to -40 and then watch
the DEQ knocking out allsorts of frequencies (this of course will be the
same when a band is playing) I didn't know this was happening when i first
used mine and i woundered why our sound was getting very thin! this is at
least my experience.. Other than that i find it a very useful tool. And i
have learned some more from reading George's post.
Neil
> |
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Rob Beech
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
I didn't know this was happening when i first
| Quote: | used mine and i woundered why our sound was getting very thin! this is at
least my experience.. Other than that i find it a very useful tool. And i
have learned some more from reading George's post.
Neil
I've used this unit a few time sand loved it/i've ordered 2 for my A rig.
I use the old one at the mo (DSP8024) which does the job to an extent. |
I noticed the same sort of probelm when the backup battery went flat on me
(lucily i didn' use many of the memory settings)
however i did accidentally setup the FBD on that to auto and with the band i
was working with (lot of keys and things) it was taking alsorts out.
Keyboards are a particular problem, get an organ sound or synth sound and
it'll fetch it out.
Rob |
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Jon Dayton
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject:
DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack
limiting option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't
a bad idea either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller
rooms. Skip the Auto EQ, you're smarter than it is, get the mic
out and look at some pink noise on the RTA, then slide the graph
around to correct.
Jon Dayton
BNB Sound |
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James T
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:28 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:02:01 GMT, Jon Dayton <jon@bnbsound.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack
limiting option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't
a bad idea either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller
rooms. Skip the Auto EQ, you're smarter than it is, get the mic
out and look at some pink noise on the RTA, then slide the graph
around to correct.
|
Hi, slightly OT, but when doing this with the RTA and a seperate
graphic in my case, are you aiming for a flat a response as possible
(given that a smooth curve is better than wild anomalies)? I see
George G suggested a progressive roll-off after 8K to avoid harshness,
as far as the low-end goes, is flat the best option, especially for
someone who is still developing their 'ear'?
Thanks,
James |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:22 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
xJon Dayton wrote:
| Quote: | I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack
limiting option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't
a bad idea either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller
rooms. Skip the Auto EQ, you're smarter than it is, get the mic
out and look at some pink noise on the RTA, then slide the graph
around to correct.
|
heh - I generally pink out by ear these days... that's sad isn't it!
--
Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America. |
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Rob Beech
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:26 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
"Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_6CdnfbF9d8TWSHcRVn-vA@karoo.co.uk...
| Quote: | xJon Dayton wrote:
I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack
limiting option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't
a bad idea either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller
rooms. Skip the Auto EQ, you're smarter than it is, get the mic
out and look at some pink noise on the RTA, then slide the graph
around to correct.
heh - I generally pink out by ear these days... that's sad isn't it!
yup......but its our job..... |
:)
Rob |
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George Gleason
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
James T wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:02:01 GMT, Jon Dayton <jon@bnbsound.com> wrote:
I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack
limiting option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't
a bad idea either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller
rooms. Skip the Auto EQ, you're smarter than it is, get the mic
out and look at some pink noise on the RTA, then slide the graph
around to correct.
Hi, slightly OT, but when doing this with the RTA and a seperate
graphic in my case, are you aiming for a flat a response as possible
(given that a smooth curve is better than wild anomalies)? I see
George G suggested a progressive roll-off after 8K to avoid harshness,
as far as the low-end goes, is flat the best option, especially for
someone who is still developing their 'ear'?
Thanks,
James
|
Depends on the gig
most of the time flat to about 30 or 40 then roll off , depends on the
speaker your using where that point is set
some rap and hiphop you could even put a hump at 80 to make them feel
the rig is louder than it really is
George |
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Blind Joni
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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| Quote: | some rap and hiphop you could even put a hump at 80 to make them feel
the rig is louder than it really is
George
|
gonna try a MaxxBass unit for this in a week or two.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637 |
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Blind Joni
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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| Quote: | I see
George G suggested a progressive roll-off after 8K to avoid harshness,
as far as the low-end goes, is flat the best option, especially for
someone who is still developing their 'ear'?
|
Most systems I hear are usually too bright for my taste...the smiley curve that
so many go to on the graphic might sound good for a kick drum but not an entire
system. I would pay a lot of attention to mid/hi bands..a smooth response here
will sound better, longer for listeners. Wehn the band is playing I find a lot
of success if I tune the system to sound as clean and in your face with a flat
EQ on the lead vocal. If the lead vocal sounds great..everything else will
likely fall into place..at least in harmony with the lead vocal.If using a
music test attempt to get the recording to sound clear and as close to you as
possible. You are not going to make the room disappear but the closer you align
the system to work with the room the better.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637 |
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ceedub
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: DEQ2496 and equivalent processing for FOH mixes |
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|
Jon:
My QSC amps have built-in limiting, but I thought a little extra insurance
was a good idea. In addition, I plan to send the FOH mix to our drummer's in
ear monitor setup. Previously, I used a splitter to do this, but now I will
try using the AUX output channels on the 2496. His IEMs don't have a
limiter, so this should give him a little more confidence.
I really do want to see what parameters the auto EQ comes up with, but I
don't expect it to work miracles.
Thanks for the input.
Craig
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"Jon Dayton" <jon@bnbsound.com> wrote in message
news:Zs1vd.46853$1u.23886@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Quote: | I've got one of these and I love it. Check out the zero attack limiting
option to protect your FOH cab investment. The FBD isn't a bad idea
either, it can give you a real leg up in smaller rooms. Skip the Auto EQ,
you're smarter than it is, get the mic out and look at some pink noise on
the RTA, then slide the graph around to correct.
Jon Dayton
BNB Sound
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