| Author |
Message |
UCLAgrad
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:30 am Post subject:
Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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Hello all. I'm new here but Ive been reading the posts for some time
now.
I would like to know the difference in audio quality of say an EAW PA
system and a cheap one such as carvin or peavey. I can tell that the
contruction of eaw is better than carvin but I am looking at audio
quality. Again, I know the eaw stuff is respected and carvin isnt. I
don't mean to be naive but would be the difference in audio quality be?
Would there be issues with coverage, distortion, etc. on the cheap
system?
If there was an eaw system and a carvin system setup outside for a 1000
person event, would one be able to tell the difference between the two
if they were blind folded?
Assume that the speakers are properly signal processed and powered, mix
is good, not windy etc..
If an EAW speaker is 5 times the cost of a Carvin speaker, does it sound
5 times better? Or is alot of the cost in name band, build quality,
warranty, R&D?
One more thing. From reading the groups here, it seems like the
repected stuff is eaw, renkus, meyer, clair brothers, Mcaulely,
community, turbosound, etc.
I guess the cheap stuff is Carvin, Mackie, Peavey, EV, and of kourse
there is Kustom.
It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff. Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not $2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where cheaper
systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost for us.
Thanks - Gene Sweeny
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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UCLAgrad wrote:
| Quote: | It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff. Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not $2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where
cheaper systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost
for us.
|
EAW have the FRz series, Turbo have the TXD series etc. They're less thant
2500/cab and sound great. I use a Martin Blackline (tops) JBL (subs) rig for
small (<200 crowd) outdoor stuff and it cost me (including amps) <2500 GBP
and sounds fantastic. Only regret was buying the second-hand Macrotechs as
it makes the amp rack a two man lift, need to replace with some powersofts
or something soon. Ironically I have an install rig running pulses, one day
I'll swap the amps over..
--
"Get a paper bag" |
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P.m.H
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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"Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xuCdnfEVtMbN7yjcRVn-uw@karoo.co.uk...
| Quote: | UCLAgrad wrote:
It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff. Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not $2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where
cheaper systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost
for us.
EAW have the FRz series, Turbo have the TXD series etc. They're less thant
2500/cab and sound great. I use a Martin Blackline (tops) JBL (subs) rig
for
small (<200 crowd) outdoor stuff and it cost me (including amps) <2500 GBP
and sounds fantastic. Only regret was buying the second-hand Macrotechs as
it makes the amp rack a two man lift, need to replace with some powersofts
or something soon. Ironically I have an install rig running pulses, one
day
I'll swap the amps over..
--
"Get a paper bag"
|
Pulses.. Hmm did that and at even the thought of any damp the (post factory
mod) pulses would more often than not, promptly go into protect mode.
Leaving them on for an few hours to dry out would occasionally bring them
back to life but who wants to get to a venue early just to dry ones rack
out. Even keeping the rack in a centrally heated house or in the wagon with
the eberspacher running they would misbehave and after badly letting the
plot down at last years glasto' the pulses have gone back to install mode
and the trusty but weighty epc's are back subluxating vertebrae with gleeful
abandon.
But to get back on topic, it depends what level of intensity one expects to
work at and what kind of show is expected, how much time can one afford to
spend setting up and stripping down, what kind of transport is required,
will the kit need flying, can it be operated by beginners bla bla.. Other
than that cheap kit is usually just that, expensive kit is usually quality
and middle of the road kit is the grey area. Often the top manufacturers
will build down to a price in order to cover a market whilst the smaller
ones are usually trying a little bit harder as they need to create their
market.
A valid option is buying pro kit secondhand from a reputable warrented
source, recones and diaphrams are fairly affordable boxes can always be
patched up, amps can be serviced and re-fanned, processing gear is fairly
indestructable. Avoid used mixers and old cables.
Personally unless you use the "style over content" method of generating
business I would recommend the used pro kit route for basic stuff like boxes
and amps and then buy a new mixer and all the cables.
Cheers
P.M.H
Funktion One rules..
Essential reading for the 21st century Baghdad Burning and for the uk reader
http://www.medialens.org/ |
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Dan Gruner
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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"UCLAgrad" <uclagrad@msn.com> wrote in message
news:41B54E0D.420F1AA7@msn.com...
| Quote: | Hello all. I'm new here but Ive been reading the posts for some time
now.
I would like to know the difference in audio quality of say an EAW PA
system and a cheap one such as carvin or peavey. I can tell that the
contruction of eaw is better than carvin but I am looking at audio
quality. Again, I know the eaw stuff is respected and carvin isnt. I
don't mean to be naive but would be the difference in audio quality be?
Would there be issues with coverage, distortion, etc. on the cheap
system?
If there was an eaw system and a carvin system setup outside for a 1000
person event, would one be able to tell the difference between the two
if they were blind folded?
Assume that the speakers are properly signal processed and powered, mix
is good, not windy etc..
If an EAW speaker is 5 times the cost of a Carvin speaker, does it sound
5 times better? Or is alot of the cost in name band, build quality,
warranty, R&D?
One more thing. From reading the groups here, it seems like the
repected stuff is eaw, renkus, meyer, clair brothers, Mcaulely,
community, turbosound, etc.
I guess the cheap stuff is Carvin, Mackie, Peavey, EV, and of kourse
there is Kustom.
It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff. Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not $2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where cheaper
systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost for us.
Thanks - Gene Sweeny
|
EV is certainty NOT the "cheap stuff" - please take it out of that list!
Like all (most) manufacturers, different model ranges are built for
different budgets and applications.
Dan |
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michael gaster
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
|
|
"UCLAgrad" <uclagrad@msn.com> wrote in message
news:41B54E0D.420F1AA7@msn.com...
| Quote: | Hello all. I'm new here but Ive been reading the posts for some time
now.
I would like to know the difference in audio quality of say an EAW PA
system and a cheap one such as carvin or peavey. I can tell that the
contruction of eaw is better than carvin but I am looking at audio
quality. Again, I know the eaw stuff is respected and carvin isnt. I
don't mean to be naive but would be the difference in audio quality be?
Would there be issues with coverage, distortion, etc. on the cheap
system?
If there was an eaw system and a carvin system setup outside for a 1000
person event, would one be able to tell the difference between the two
if they were blind folded?
Assume that the speakers are properly signal processed and powered, mix
is good, not windy etc..
If an EAW speaker is 5 times the cost of a Carvin speaker, does it sound
5 times better? Or is alot of the cost in name band, build quality,
warranty, R&D?
One more thing. From reading the groups here, it seems like the
repected stuff is eaw, renkus, meyer, clair brothers, Mcaulely,
community, turbosound, etc.
I guess the cheap stuff is Carvin, Mackie, Peavey, EV, and of kourse
there is Kustom.
It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff. Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not $2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where cheaper
systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost for us.
Thanks - Gene Sweeny
|
you should also look at the Renkus Heinz www.rh.com line some stuff is
priced the same as EAW, some for what it is is less and build quality are of
the same standards, additionally the Renkus Heinz line offers more products
and all are built to order... you really do get what you pay for. and out of
the box it sounds better
--
Michael Gaster
Live Performance Solutions Inc. |
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Rupert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
|
|
UCLAgrad wrote:
| Quote: | Hello all. I'm new here but Ive been reading the posts for some time
now.
I would like to know the difference in audio quality of say an EAW PA
system and a cheap one such as carvin or peavey. I can tell that the
contruction of eaw is better than carvin but I am looking at audio
quality. Again, I know the eaw stuff is respected and carvin isnt.
I
don't mean to be naive but would be the difference in audio quality
be? |
The difference in audio quality between Carvin and even the lower end
lines of EAW would be substantial. Between the higher end lines of EAW
and Carvin, it's no contest. Peavey's higher end stuff is also better
sounding then Carvin. The lower end stuff is, well, not.
| Quote: | Would there be issues with coverage, distortion, etc. on the cheap
system?
|
Absolutely.
| Quote: | If there was an eaw system and a carvin system setup outside for a
1000
person event, would one be able to tell the difference between the
two
if they were blind folded?
|
Yes.
| Quote: | Assume that the speakers are properly signal processed and powered,
mix
is good, not windy etc..
|
Yes.
| Quote: | If an EAW speaker is 5 times the cost of a Carvin speaker, does it
sound
5 times better?
|
How many "times better" is an arbitrary subjective figure. The simple
answer is that it will sound better.
| Quote: | Or is alot of the cost in name band, build quality,
warranty, R&D?
|
It's all those thing too. Better built boxes, more R&D, and better
support all cost money. It also means better sound. No free lunch.
| Quote: | One more thing. From reading the groups here, it seems like the
repected stuff is eaw, renkus, meyer, clair brothers, Mcaulely,
community, turbosound, etc.
I guess the cheap stuff is Carvin, Mackie, Peavey, EV, and of kourse
there is Kustom.
|
I wouldn't lump EV into that category, though they do have some lower
end stuff. They also have some very high end stuff, and make excellent
drivers. I would also put Mackie & Peavey above the Carvin stuff.
Peavey's higher end stuff sounds pretty good when properly powered and
processed. The Mackie "Active" speakers sound pretty good for the money
too. They just have a limited selection, and seem to have trouble
coming out with newer models that have more output and tighter
patterns. But then again, they are catering to a lower end market. And
in that realm, they're not bad.
| Quote: | It also seems like some companies make cheap and good stuff such as
community mvp series and some jbl stuff.
|
Most companies need to market lower end stuff to fund the R&D on the
good stuff. There simply isn't the market base to stay in business
doing only high end boxes.
| Quote: | Is there any middle of the
line stuff that is good enough for larger outdoor events but not
$2500
per cabinet? There's alot of summer festivals in my town where
cheaper
systems may not suffice but the pro stuff is unreasonble cost for us.
|
I would take a hard look at the Yorkville Unity Series. The U215 is a
great sounding box that can be arrayed 3 wide, and has decent output.
It's also flyable, can be run full range or bi-amp. I've seen them
advertised around between $1800 - $1900 each. If you need more output
(the U215 has a peak output of 130dB@ 1 meter), look at their TX8. It's
a more conventional high output box that's a little over the $2k mark,
and still sounds good. I really don't think you're going to find a bang
for buck ratio then Yorkville. As far as lower cost subs go, I've heard
good things about the Peavey QW218, though I haven't heard them myself.
They faired quite well apparently, at a subwoofer "shoot out" put on by
a bunch of people on the prosoundweb.com live audio board. They tested
everything from top of the line subs by the big companies to these, and
the consesus was that the Peavey's were the best overall low cost dual
18" sub.
Rupert |
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George Gleason
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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|
Carvin has some very non-professional stuff
but the also make some almost pro stuff
thier TCS brand is about equal to the EAW LA series
now the LA is eaw's bottom line
Eaw makes some real powerhouse gear once you move into the real pro
stuff, carvin can not even be spoken in the same sentence with stuff
like the 940 or sm500's
George
> |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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|
P.m.H wrote:
| Quote: | Funktion One rules..
|
Doesn't it just - all the innovation and mind-blowing efficience of the
early turbo stuff but bang up to date.
On the subject of Turbo - did Dave Andrews have any input into the Aspect,
and has anyone worked them / heard them yet?
--
"Get a paper bag" |
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Rupert
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:37 am Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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|
George Gleason wrote:
| Quote: | Carvin has some very non-professional stuff
but the also make some almost pro stuff
thier TCS brand is about equal to the EAW LA series
now the LA is eaw's bottom line
Eaw makes some real powerhouse gear once you move into the real pro
stuff, carvin can not even be spoken in the same sentence with stuff
like the 940 or sm500's
George
|
Hi George. Yeah, I'm aware of the TCS stuff. But I figured he was
specifically referring to the Carvin brand, seeing as they're trying
hard to distance the TCS line from the parent company as much as
possible.
Rupert
P.S. Aren't you now a TCS dealer? ;-) |
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George Gleason
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:37 am Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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Rupert wrote:
| Quote: | George Gleason wrote:
Carvin has some very non-professional stuff
but the also make some almost pro stuff
thier TCS brand is about equal to the EAW LA series
now the LA is eaw's bottom line
Eaw makes some real powerhouse gear once you move into the real pro
stuff, carvin can not even be spoken in the same sentence with stuff
like the 940 or sm500's
George
Hi George. Yeah, I'm aware of the TCS stuff. But I figured he was
specifically referring to the Carvin brand, seeing as they're trying
hard to distance the TCS line from the parent company as much as
possible.
Rupert
P.S. Aren't you now a TCS dealer? ;-)
|
yes I am
I'd like to get some product in the field as well
if anyone is considering EAW LA stuff
give me a chance to show you a legit option to that choice
George
George
> |
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RL
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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|
George Gleason wrote:
| Quote: | Rupert wrote:
George Gleason wrote:
Carvin has some very non-professional stuff
but the also make some almost pro stuff
thier TCS brand is about equal to the EAW LA series
now the LA is eaw's bottom line
Eaw makes some real powerhouse gear once you move into the real pro
stuff, carvin can not even be spoken in the same sentence with stuff
like the 940 or sm500's
George
Hi George. Yeah, I'm aware of the TCS stuff. But I figured he was
specifically referring to the Carvin brand, seeing as they're trying
hard to distance the TCS line from the parent company as much as
possible.
Rupert
P.S. Aren't you now a TCS dealer? ;-)
yes I am
I'd like to get some product in the field as well
if anyone is considering EAW LA stuff
give me a chance to show you a legit option to that choice
George
George
EAW does make some reasonably priced stuff, which performs great. The |
thing that really gets me about the EAW LA line is how wide the price
range is. The LA400s are are great value. Our system has 2 and we love
them. Output is on par with a dual 18. They can be had for about
800-1000 a pop. But, the LA460 is upwards of of 1700 each. This kills
the budget big time. Maybe this is true of most lines. All I'm trying
to do is set up a system that can do local music festivals, battle of
the bands, motorcycle rallies, Large outdoor corporate picnics, etc.
The original poster is a borderline troll, but sometimes as a poor
soundman, I have to wonder. Could I get the job done spending half the
money. I don't run sound for a national act or anything. Running 2-4
tops per side and 4-8 sub cabinets, I don't want to have to lay down
20,000 dollars on speakers. I won't make enough money around our area
to pay the loan on that.
I know most of the true pro's here give us small guys advice, and it's
great don't get me wrong. However, trying to justify a $1500 cabinet
when a cabinet priced at 1/2 to 1/3 will do 90% of the performance is
really tough. I know, I know.... performance is relative, and a
subjective measurement. The gains in efficiency with large scale
systems is apparent. You have to control the sound in a huge stadium.
But what about a small ethnic festival on a closed down street? I guess
I'm in the same boat as UCLAgrad here.
Honestly, this is a more of a weekend hobby for me. I want my system to
be sound near professional and do the job well. However, I think mixing
talent has more to do with this.
Can you guys help me out here with this? Comments, suggestions very
welcome.
--
RL |
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UCLAgrad
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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RL wrote:
| Quote: |
The original poster is a borderline troll, but sometimes as a poor
soundman, I have to wonder. Could I get the job done spending half the
money. I don't run sound for a national act or anything. Running 2-4
tops per side and 4-8 sub cabinets, I don't want to have to lay down
20,000 dollars on speakers. I won't make enough money around our area
to pay the loan on that.
|
No sir. I am not what you call a troll. I believe I posted a legitimate
question. Similar to you, I am in a small town with very few dealers within
100 miles of the area so I don't get to demo a bunch of systems. Since I
personally don't know 'how much' better the expensive stuff sounds, I was
looking for answers on the audible differences between cheap stuff and good
stuff... and perhaps an explaination why. |
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UCLAgrad
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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| Quote: | EV is certainty NOT the "cheap stuff" - please take it out of that list!
Like all (most) manufacturers, different model ranges are built for
different budgets and applications.
Dan
|
OK. Sorry if I offended anyone. |
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UCLAgrad
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
|
|
| Quote: | I would take a hard look at the Yorkville Unity Series. The U215 is a
great sounding box that can be arrayed 3 wide, and has decent output.
It's also flyable, can be run full range or bi-amp. I've seen them
advertised around between $1800 - $1900 each. If you need more output
(the U215 has a peak output of 130dB@ 1 meter), look at their TX8. It's
a more conventional high output box that's a little over the $2k mark,
and still sounds good. I really don't think you're going to find a bang
for buck ratio then Yorkville.
|
Thank you for the information. I really nevered looked into Yorkville. I
looked at the U15 and the TX4. They seem about the same price. Which of
these do you recommend? The specs on paper look about the same. The
biggest difference I saw was that the U15 is 4 ohms and the TX4 is 8 ohms. |
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GoobAudio
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Sound quality eaw, peavey, carvin |
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|
:
: No sir. I am not what you call a troll. I believe I
posted a legitimate
: question. Similar to you, I am in a small town with
very few dealers within
: 100 miles of the area so I don't get to demo a bunch
of systems. Since I
: personally don't know 'how much' better the expensive
stuff sounds, I was
: looking for answers on the audible differences
between cheap stuff and good
: stuff... and perhaps an explaination why.
The more expensive stuff usually goes a lot louder than
the cheap stuff before distortion and perhaps performs
sonically better than the cheap stuff at similar low
volumes.
The expensive stuff is made to fly/rig and the cheap
stuff needs something under it to keep gravity from
pushing it to the center of the earth.
The expensive stuff is made to be put into arrays with
more like expensive stuff and perhaps more different
(like subs and center fills) stuff to work as a larger
system outdors or in large rooms. The cheap stuff is
usually just for small multi use crowds.
The expensive stuff takes ungodly amounts of power amps
and such to make it play really loud.
YMMV
Phil Abbate
: |
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