| Author |
Message |
Ryan
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
We are doing some remodeling work at church. Part of what is being
done is having a platform built in the back to put the sound table on.
It's not complete yet, no carpet or anything. But we were on it this
Sunday and I noticed it picks up a lot of vibrations. I can feel all
the low tones through my feet.
Is this bad? If it's not to the point of making noise itself, does it
really do any harm? Can it make the bass 'muddy' or anything for the
other listeners in the sanctuary? I guess one downside is that we
might perceive more bass in the sound than is actually there because
we can feel it.
How can it be stopped? Fill the area under the platform with
fiberglass insulation? They did put glue on the 'joists' before
putting the plywood floor down, so that should help with some
vibrations I would think.
Thanks for any input.
-Ryan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
E. Hill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | I guess one downside is that we
might perceive more bass in the sound than is actually there because
we can feel it.
|
That's nothing compared with the downside of having a wall directly at your
back.
| Quote: | How can it be stopped?
|
Fill the riser with something like R30 insulation, or sand.
Eric |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
<zirconx9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102348441.461506.101400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
| Quote: | If it hasn't been built yet, Leave it out?
It's the wall between the sanctuary and the Pastor's office, so that's
not really feasible.
But should we consider some kind of acoustic wall treatment behind us?
|
Trouble is, what you are trying to correct is a built-up of low bass that
goes down to DC. Normal acoustic wall treatments tend to stop absorbing at
modest frequencies like 200, 100 Hz. You're talking a substantial thickness
(foot or feet?) of wall treatment.
| Quote: | There's always been a wall directly behind the soundtable and I've
never thought much of it. But I'm pretty new to all this.
|
Or, you kinda-sorta try to learn to live with it. The magic word is
"translate". IOW, you don't mix for a nice sound where you sit, you mix for
some other sound that you somehow know represents a nice sound in the main
part of the room. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | That's nothing compared with the downside of having
a wall directly at your back.
|
What do you suggest? Should we try to line the wall behind us with
some type of fabric to reduce sound bouncing off there? That wall
hasn't been build yet actually, is there anything special in
construction of the wall we should do?
Thanks,
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | That's nothing compared with the downside of having
a wall directly at your back.
|
What do you suggest? Should we try to line the wall behind us with
some type of fabric to reduce sound bouncing off there? That wall
hasn't been build yet actually, is there anything special in
construction of the wall we should do?
Thanks,
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | That's nothing compared with the downside of having
a wall directly at your back.
|
What do you suggest? Should we try to line the wall behind us with
some type of fabric to reduce sound bouncing off there? That wall
hasn't been build yet actually, is there anything special in
construction of the wall we should do?
Thanks,
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
"Ryan" <zirconx9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7d49913.0412052026.15b3c59b@posting.google.com
| Quote: | We are doing some remodeling work at church. Part of what is being
done is having a platform built in the back to put the sound table on.
It's not complete yet, no carpet or anything. But we were on it this
Sunday and I noticed it picks up a lot of vibrations. I can feel all
the low tones through my feet.
Is this bad?
|
Depends what "a lot" is, and depends on what is happening in the room at the
time.
If you're not playing vinyl, palpable vibrations are more annoyance than
danger. If the music in the room is *very loud* then its hard to keep things
from vibrating palpably.
| Quote: | If it's not to the point of making noise itself, does it
really do any harm? Can it make the bass 'muddy' or anything for the
other listeners in the sanctuary?
|
Shouldn't happen via the sound equipment unless you are playing vinyl.
Microphonics went out with tubes.
| Quote: | I guess one downside is that we
might perceive more bass in the sound than is actually there because
we can feel it.
|
This becomes a translation issue which can be either positive or negative.
How do your mixers translate what they perceive into the mix?
| Quote: | How can it be stopped?
|
Find a book about managing sound and vibrations. My recollection is that
Alton Everest's studio acoustics book has some relevant items.
| Quote: | Fill the area under the platform with fiberglass insulation?
|
Probably not. The two general approaches to managing vibration are to either
suspend things so that vibrations in the floor don't travel up, or add
mass-loading or stiffness.
For example, if you make a platform by stacking cinder blocks it generally
vibrates less than if you make it out of plywood. Both the mass and the
stiffness help. If you stack the cinder blocks on a stiff foam mat, the
resiliance of the foam reduces transmission up from the floor under the
plaform.
| Quote: | They did put glue on the 'joists' before
putting the plywood floor down, so that should help with some
vibrations I would think.
|
The joists could be vibrating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Crowley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
<zirconx9@yahoo.com> wrote ...
| Quote: | That's nothing compared with the downside of having
a wall directly at your back.
What do you suggest? Should we try to line the wall behind us with
some type of fabric to reduce sound bouncing off there? That wall
hasn't been build yet actually, is there anything special in
construction of the wall we should do?
|
If it hasn't been built yet, Leave it out? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | If it hasn't been built yet, Leave it out?
|
It's the wall between the santuary and the Pastor's office, so that's
not really feasible.
But should we consider some kind of acoustic wall treatment behind us?
There's always been a wall directly behind the soundtable and I've
never thought much of it. But I'm pretty new to all this.
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | If it hasn't been built yet, Leave it out?
|
It's the wall between the santuary and the Pastor's office, so that's
not really feasible.
But should we consider some kind of acoustic wall treatment behind us?
There's always been a wall directly behind the soundtable and I've
never thought much of it. But I'm pretty new to all this.
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
"E. Hill" <anybody@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:r5-dnfHahvEMai7cRVn-ow@adelphia.com
| Quote: | I guess one downside is that we
might perceive more bass in the sound than is actually there because
we can feel it.
That's nothing compared with the downside of having a wall directly
at your back.
|
Amen to that. Sitting in front of a wall near the base gives you a really
distorted perspective.
BTW I heard of a church in town that had a broadcast-style isolation booth
for the sound guy to control from. There was a hole in the glass where the
sound from the sanctuary came through. Apparently one of their old-timers
actually learned how to translate what came through that hole into some kind
of useful sonic perspective of what's happening in the room. When he decided
to retire, the church ponied up over a half-a-mil for a new sound system
including functional sound booth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
Sorry about the double posts. This new google groups interface kind-of
sucks.
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Halliburton
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | It's the wall between the santuary and the Pastor's office, so that's
not really feasible.
But should we consider some kind of acoustic wall treatment behind us?
There's always been a wall directly behind the soundtable and I've
never thought much of it. But I'm pretty new to all this.
|
Mass is your friend, and I don't mean the ceremonial type. If the floor
isn't finished, and the wall hasn't been built, look at bracing the floor
with more lumber, and doubling the plywood layer of the floor-and if one
layer is plywood, make the second layer OSB or some different type of heavy
underlayment. As for the wall, check out this web page, there's some good
info with cross sectional drawings showing what I'd spend a lot of time
trying to explain:
http://www.sdsc.edu/~nadeau/Rebuilding/About/AboutSoundproofingWalls.htm
At the least, double up the drywall layers on both sides of the regular wall
if possible. Bass transmission isn't absorbed by fiberglass or foam on a
surface, although you certainly will want to insulate the wall as well to
help with other forms of sound travel.
Also, make sure any subwoofers under the stage aren't touching the
construction of the stage, this only adds to the problem.
Best regards,
John Halliburton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E. Hill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | What do you suggest? Should we try to line the wall behind us with
some type of fabric to reduce sound bouncing off there? That wall
hasn't been build yet actually, is there anything special in
construction of the wall we should do?
|
Move FOH to a location that is representative of what's being heard by the
congregation. Our FOH area is about 2/3rd's of the way back, on the left
side, in the seating area.
At first, there was a little reluctance to move off the back wall. But, we
did a trial run, and it wasn't a big deal. We've been off the back wall for
close to 10 years, now. We were about 50' from the stage. We could see just
fine without being elevated. We only had two rules that came about (over
time): (1) No kids were allowed to sit in the row directly in front of us.
(2) No tambourines in the immediate area. Other than those two items, it
worked great. Much better than being on the back wall, that's for sure.
What will be the dimensions of the finished sanctuary?
What's the name of the church, btw?
Eric |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | Move FOH to a location that is representative of
what's being heard by the congregation. Our FOH area is
about 2/3rd's of the way back, on the left side, in the
seating area.
|
We talked about doing this, but it is not feasible at this time. BTW
this is a remodel (more like an update) of an existing church, not a
new church.
| Quote: | What will be the dimensions of the finished sanctuary?
|
The santuary is about 50' wide by 60' long.
| Quote: | What's the name of the church, btw?
|
Northside Alliance.
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in