| Author |
Message |
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | Move FOH to a location that is representative of
what's being heard by the congregation. Our FOH area is
about 2/3rd's of the way back, on the left side, in the
seating area.
|
We talked about doing this, but it is not feasible at this time. BTW
this is a remodel (more like an update) of an existing church, not a
new church.
| Quote: | What will be the dimensions of the finished sanctuary?
|
The santuary is about 50' wide by 60' long.
| Quote: | What's the name of the church, btw?
|
Northside Alliance.
-Ryan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dale Farmer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
John Halliburton wrote:
| Quote: | It's the wall between the santuary and the Pastor's office, so that's
not really feasible.
But should we consider some kind of acoustic wall treatment behind us?
There's always been a wall directly behind the soundtable and I've
never thought much of it. But I'm pretty new to all this.
Mass is your friend, and I don't mean the ceremonial type. If the floor
isn't finished, and the wall hasn't been built, look at bracing the floor
with more lumber, and doubling the plywood layer of the floor-and if one
layer is plywood, make the second layer OSB or some different type of heavy
underlayment. As for the wall, check out this web page, there's some good
info with cross sectional drawings showing what I'd spend a lot of time
trying to explain:
http://www.sdsc.edu/~nadeau/Rebuilding/About/AboutSoundproofingWalls.htm
At the least, double up the drywall layers on both sides of the regular wall
if possible. Bass transmission isn't absorbed by fiberglass or foam on a
surface, although you certainly will want to insulate the wall as well to
help with other forms of sound travel.
Also, make sure any subwoofers under the stage aren't touching the
construction of the stage, this only adds to the problem.
|
If the structure will support the additional weight, adding sheet lead
between layers of plywood is a great way of adding mass to a wall or
deck. ( although the folks who are building it will get pretty annoyed. )
--Dale |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Halliburton
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | If the structure will support the additional weight, adding sheet lead
between layers of plywood is a great way of adding mass to a wall or
deck. ( although the folks who are building it will get pretty annoyed. )
|
Something safer might be 80lb roofers felt inbetween layers. You can also
use a very "lossy" adhesive thickly rolled on, to damp the sheets of
underlayment. Something that has a lot of PVA, doesn't really get hard.
Also, carpet with padding underneath helps too.
Best regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
The rear section of the floor is already glued and nailed to the
joists. The front section of the top is not fastened yet, so we can
get underneath for wiring.
What if I went under the platform and attached some adhesive Dynamat to
it? (http://www.dynamat.com/) Would this help with the vibrating?
Or a cheaper alternative to dynamat? Like roofing felt or carpet pad or
something?
-Ryan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Halliburton
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
Seriously, if the subflooring is down, can you add another layer on top?
Since you can get underneath, you should put extra bracing/blocking using
the same stock as the joists. Joist hanger can be screwed in and the
blocking installed. How wide is the spacing of the floor joists in the
first place? Dynamat is relatively expensive, and may not work as well as
adding mass/stiffness. If you can add a layer of roofer's felt between
layers of the underlayment, better results should be seen.
Best regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E. Hill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
| Quote: | What if I went under the platform and attached some adhesive Dynamat to
it? (http://www.dynamat.com/) Would this help with the vibrating?
|
Like I said before... Pack it with R30 insulation or sand. :-)
I think some people think you're trying to solidify a stage, and not a
platform you're mixing from. The "layered" approach to the top is often used
to help create a solid stage. The vibrations we like to reduce in a stage
are being caused primarily by people moving on top, instruments, and
speakers. You're trying to deal with vibrations that are being caused by
certain frequencies hitting the platform from roughly 50' away.
There are four ways to deal with the unwanted transmission of sound: absorb,
block, break, and isolate. (Search the web for "Owens Corning" and
"QuietZone" for some good information.) These principals can be applied to
your situation.
I'd fill your mixing platform with R30 insulation first (absorb). (You could
try R11 or R13 first. If you needed to move up to R30, you could use the R11
or R13 in the other walls you're constructing. But, I'm more in favor of
R30.) If that doesn't help enough, I'd move onto "block." For that, I would
double-face the front and sides first. Then, I would double-face the top.
Use roofers felt between the layers of plywood. Oh, and hide the glue. :-)
Eric |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
<zirconx9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102520850.113723.196180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
| Quote: | The rear section of the floor is already glued and nailed to the
joists. The front section of the top is not fastened yet, so we can
get underneath for wiring.
What if I went under the platform and attached some adhesive Dynamat
to it? (http://www.dynamat.com/) Would this help with the vibrating?
|
Probably not. Dynamat is pretty ineffective in its primary market, which is
car sound. A friend did some sound and vibration measurements on a car,
treated it the hilt with dynamat and repeated the measurements. Not hardly
any change. I suspect it might be helpful with tinny computer cases.
| Quote: | Or a cheaper alternative to dynamat?
|
Just about anything is...
You're right Dynamat ain't cheap. But the alternative similar products only
cost a little less.
Basically you want to stiffen and/or mass load the deck. If bass is making
the floor vibrate, damping alll by itself is not going to be that effective.
You can stiffen the deck cost-effectively using bracing. Simply adding
another layer of flooriing adds both stiffness and mass.
Cheap mass loading? Pour two inches of concrete on it! Just make sure you
have the structure to support it!
| Quote: | Like roofing felt or carpet pad or something?
|
Someone already did recommend 80 pound roofing felt, BTW.
Carpet pad lacks the mass you need. It's obviously not stiff. That's a
lose-lose combination. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim Padrick
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
"Ryan" <zirconx9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7d49913.0412052026.15b3c59b@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | We are doing some remodeling work at church. Part of what is being
done is having a platform built in the back to put the sound table on.
It's not complete yet, no carpet or anything. But we were on it this
Sunday and I noticed it picks up a lot of vibrations. I can feel all
the low tones through my feet.
Is this bad? If it's not to the point of making noise itself, does it
really do any harm? Can it make the bass 'muddy' or anything for the
other listeners in the sanctuary? I guess one downside is that we
might perceive more bass in the sound than is actually there because
we can feel it.
How can it be stopped? Fill the area under the platform with
fiberglass insulation? They did put glue on the 'joists' before
putting the plywood floor down, so that should help with some
vibrations I would think.
Thanks for any input.
-Ryan
|
Rip it out. You want what you are hearing and feelong to be as close as
possible to what the congregation is hearing and feeling. Raising your
position will change this, as will having your feet on something other than
the floor. Plus, it compromises your ability to add to or change the layout
of the FOH equipment. Stay on the floor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adair Winter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:
Re: Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
| Quote: | Someone already did recommend 80 pound roofing felt, BTW.
|
Just to clarify because I work in the roofing industry, there is no such
there as 80# Felt but there is such thing at 15 & 30# felt.
Adair |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon Dayton
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject:
Building a new sound platform at church, and it vibrates |
|
|
He might be tlking about 90 pound, sometimes called starter or
selvage edge.
J. Dayton
BNB Sound |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in