| Author |
Message |
Edwin Hurwitz
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
TIA
Edwin
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@indra.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
|
You want high-Z to low-Z, or do you want dual secondaries for multiple
isos?
| Quote: | Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
|
Jensen will sell direct as cheaply as anyone. Lundahl makes some good
transformers although I don't think their high ratio stuff is as clean
as the Jensens. Same goes for Lundahls.
If you can do low ratios, Tamura actually makes some workable stuff,
but now you're talking a different splitter configuration.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Crowley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:23 am Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
"Edwin Hurwitz" wrote ...
| Quote: | I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
|
Dunno that you can buy them anywhere else but direct?
Other transformer manufacturers that may offer mic splitter
products...
http://www.cinemag.biz/index.html
http://www.lundahl.se/
http://www.sescom.com/
http://www.sowter.co.uk/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Edwin Hurwitz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
In article <coglk9$3pr$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
| Quote: | Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@indra.com> wrote:
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
You want high-Z to low-Z, or do you want dual secondaries for multiple
isos?
|
Low Z to low Z, I would imagine. Anything going into it would be a mic
or an instrument with a DI. I want to be able to send it to my mic pres
without affecting or being affected by the PA for live recording.
| Quote: | Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
Jensen will sell direct as cheaply as anyone. Lundahl makes some good
transformers although I don't think their high ratio stuff is as clean
as the Jensens. Same goes for Lundahls.
If you can do low ratios, Tamura actually makes some workable stuff,
but now you're talking a different splitter configuration.
--scott
|
As far as I can figure, it would be a 1:1 ratio, but I am no expert on
transformers.
Thanks for your reply!
All the best,
Edwin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
"Mike T." <miket@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:pg7pq09qio9e5ini28rlu6jcbd0j52ujdc@4ax.com
| Quote: | On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:44:43 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com
wrote:
"Edwin Hurwitz" <edwin@indra.com> wrote in message
news:edwin-7E13D2.18435429112004@corp.supernews.com
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers
that won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a
transformer is most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these
mics are going to split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas?
If money is really a consideration, just drive the second mixer from
the direct outs or inserts of the first.
And if you really need isolation between the rigs, buy a bunch of 1:1
line-level transformers to isolate the second mixer.
|
I might as well add the caveat, which is that splitting sources from direct
outs or insert points puts the guy who controls the trims on the first
console in the driver's seat.
| Quote: | Because we're on RAP, can I assume that the split is for recording?
|
The other application would be a separate monitor mix.
| Quote: | I've had acceptable (to my clients) results by connecting the direct
outputs from an A&H GL-2200 to the inputs of an Alesis HD24. The
levels match up nicely. Bonus: you get a 24-channel meter bridge.
|
I've been tapping the inserts of a Mackie SR32 for a Delta 1010 and a Delta
66 for almost 2 years. Money IS an issue here since it isn't my money.
| Quote: | If you need to run it more than a few meters, or the recorder is on a
different electrical circuit (like a UPS, which I STRONGLY recommend),
you may want those 1:1 isolating transformers.
|
True, but balanced line level I/O can be surprisingly robust. Of course a
really bad ground potential difference could get messy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
In article <edwin-945BAC.02300730112004@corp.supernews.com> edwin@TAKEMEOUTindra.com writes:
| Quote: | I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive
|
About 20 years ago I looked into making such a splitter and was
considering the Whirlwind transformers. They were less than half the
cost of Jensens and sounded OK in splitters that I'd rented.
I decided that I didn't need a splitter often enough to invest in one,
so I continued renting when I needed it. I was fortunate enough to
have a reliable rental source so there was always a decent splitter
available for $25. You might think about that, though I expect that
rental prices have gone up since then, but possibly not very much,
particularly if you can find an older, established company that's had
their splitter for years and years and it's thorougly paid for.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
In article <znr1101824279k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I decided that I didn't need a splitter often enough to invest in one,
so I continued renting when I needed it. I was fortunate enough to
have a reliable rental source so there was always a decent splitter
available for $25. You might think about that, though I expect that
rental prices have gone up since then, but possibly not very much,
particularly if you can find an older, established company that's had
their splitter for years and years and it's thorougly paid for.
|
Where is this? Not National, I hope. Even though National Events is
gone, their splitters still keep showing up on gigs, and they still
don't work on half the channels. If somebody has decent splitters for
rental in the DC area, I'd love to know.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<L7udnZg2ecT1CDHcRVn-oQ@comcast.com>...
| Quote: | "Edwin Hurwitz" <edwin@indra.com> wrote in message
news:edwin-7E13D2.18435429112004@corp.supernews.com
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers
that won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a
transformer is most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these
mics are going to split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas?
If money is really a consideration, just drive the second mixer from the
direct outs or inserts of the first.
|
Question for the group....
What would be the problem of building a mic splitter using an ordinary
one primary one secondary 1:1 low Z mic transformer. The mic would be
connected directly to mixer #1 and the transfoermer primary bridged
across the mic signal and the secondary feeds mixer #2. The
transformer provides complete gound loop isolation between the two
mixers so there can be no ground loops.
The mic is doubly loaded because it sees two mixer loads in parallel,
but a mic splitter transfomer does that anyway. So what is the
advantage of a true three winding mic splitter transformer compared to
using an ordinary two winding mic transformer. The main issue of
ground loops is completly resolved in either case.
Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
In article <edwin-945BAC.02300730112004@corp.supernews.com>,
Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@TAKEMEOUTindra.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <coglk9$3pr$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@indra.com> wrote:
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
You want high-Z to low-Z, or do you want dual secondaries for multiple
isos?
Low Z to low Z, I would imagine. Anything going into it would be a mic
or an instrument with a DI. I want to be able to send it to my mic pres
without affecting or being affected by the PA for live recording.
|
Okay, if you want to do this, you know first of all that you're going to
take a sonic hit on the iso outputs, and secondly you're going to be paying
a lot more for transformers than you do with dual secondaries. On the
other hand, it makes phantom power management a lot easier.
I should add that if at all possible you want to use the direct outputs for
the recording rig and the isos for the PA, for that reason. If you are
not running the PA, though, this can cause social problems.
| Quote: | Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
Jensen will sell direct as cheaply as anyone. Lundahl makes some good
transformers although I don't think their high ratio stuff is as clean
as the Jensens. Same goes for Lundahls.
If you can do low ratios, Tamura actually makes some workable stuff,
but now you're talking a different splitter configuration.
As far as I can figure, it would be a 1:1 ratio, but I am no expert on
transformers.
|
No, you want a very high ratio if you are using a bridging splitter, because
you don't want the second output to load down the microphone. This tends
to make the transformers very expensive. Take a look at the numbers on
the transformers Jensen recommends for bridging splitters.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Richardson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
Scott, do these transformers (the two-secondary DXF) meet your
criterion? They're about half the cost of Jensens)
http://www.rapco.com/catalog/default.asp?FILE=techinfo1.htm&ID=9
----------------
Scott Dorsey wrote:
| Quote: | In article <edwin-945BAC.02300730112004@corp.supernews.com>,
Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@TAKEMEOUTindra.com> wrote:
In article <coglk9$3pr$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Edwin Hurwitz <edwin@indra.com> wrote:
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers that
won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a transformer is
most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these mics are going to
split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
You want high-Z to low-Z, or do you want dual secondaries for multiple
isos?
Low Z to low Z, I would imagine. Anything going into it would be a mic
or an instrument with a DI. I want to be able to send it to my mic pres
without affecting or being affected by the PA for live recording.
Okay, if you want to do this, you know first of all that you're going to
take a sonic hit on the iso outputs, and secondly you're going to be paying
a lot more for transformers than you do with dual secondaries. On the
other hand, it makes phantom power management a lot easier.
I should add that if at all possible you want to use the direct outputs for
the recording rig and the isos for the PA, for that reason. If you are
not running the PA, though, this can cause social problems.
Any ideas? Cheapest source for Jensen?
Jensen will sell direct as cheaply as anyone. Lundahl makes some good
transformers although I don't think their high ratio stuff is as clean
as the Jensens. Same goes for Lundahls.
If you can do low ratios, Tamura actually makes some workable stuff,
but now you're talking a different splitter configuration.
As far as I can figure, it would be a 1:1 ratio, but I am no expert on
transformers.
No, you want a very high ratio if you are using a bridging splitter, because
you don't want the second output to load down the microphone. This tends
to make the transformers very expensive. Take a look at the numbers on
the transformers Jensen recommends for bridging splitters.
--scott
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
Don Richardson <donr39ca@netscape.net> wrote:
Look at the ratio. The DXF is a 1:1:1 type transformer. So if you use
it, you get two isolated splits, but you have to deal with external phantom
power.
If you want to bridge, you have to use the DBT in order not to change the
impedance the mike sees too much. This means you have to deal with that
24 dB drop in the process and you will find also that the top end response
isn't what you might like. But, you don't have to deal with external
phantom power.
All of the Rapcos are very overpriced for what they are... I suspect they
are rebadged Japanese transformers. But if you keep levels down and
don't expect wonderful low end extension you will probably be fine with them.
The 1:1:1 types are much easier to make than the high ratio ones, and should
be cheaper.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arny Krueger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
"Edwin Hurwitz" <edwin@indra.com> wrote in message
news:edwin-7E13D2.18435429112004@corp.supernews.com
| Quote: | I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers
that won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a
transformer is most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these
mics are going to split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas?
|
If money is really a consideration, just drive the second mixer from the
direct outs or inserts of the first. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodderboy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
If you want Jensen, get them direct. For the big 24-48 ch jobs, I use
Rapco, Whirlwind or Horizon. They will all furnish a complete wired
box or panel as well. There are hundreds of thousands of them in use,
because they cost almost a tenth of Jensen or other high end product. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike T.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:44:43 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Edwin Hurwitz" <edwin@indra.com> wrote in message
news:edwin-7E13D2.18435429112004@corp.supernews.com
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers
that won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a
transformer is most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these
mics are going to split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas?
If money is really a consideration, just drive the second mixer from the
direct outs or inserts of the first.
And if you really need isolation between the rigs, buy a bunch of 1:1 |
line-level transformers to isolate the second mixer.
Because we're on RAP, can I assume that the split is for recording?
I've had acceptable (to my clients) results by connecting the direct
outputs from an A&H GL-2200 to the inputs of an Alesis HD24. The
levels match up nicely. Bonus: you get a 24-channel meter bridge.
If you need to run it more than a few meters, or the recorder is on a
different electrical circuit (like a UPS, which I STRONGLY recommend),
you may want those 1:1 isolating transformers.
Mike T. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Philip Perkins
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Where to find mic splitter transformers? |
|
|
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<L7udnZg2ecT1CDHcRVn-oQ@comcast.com>...
| Quote: | "Edwin Hurwitz" <edwin@indra.com> wrote in message
news:edwin-7E13D2.18435429112004@corp.supernews.com
I want to build a snake with mic splitters built in. I have all the
other parts, but I am trying to find a source for the transformers
that won't be super expensive (I know, in order to be good, a
transformer is most likely expensive, but with the PAs that these
mics are going to split into, a Jensen would be wasted).
Any ideas?
If money is really a consideration, just drive the second mixer from the
direct outs or inserts of the first.
|
I've had good luck on many remotes NOT transformering either side of a
hard split, but making sure that all AC powering for all audio gear
was on the same leg of the service.
When we had a problem, we'd transformer split just the offending
channel. I know I've been lucky, but this has worked quite well on
many many occasions. There have been
times where common power wasn't possible, and then the full xformer
split is warranted.
And there will be "social problems" over who gets the un-transformered
side of it.
Philip Perkins
are |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in