| Author |
Message |
Ray Thomas
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject:
2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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Using Wavelab5/WindowsXP Pro/Echo Indigo pcm card into my laptop at 24/96 >
direct into 120 Gig external HD last Saturday...all was fine for the first
1hour and 3 mins of a single 90 minute work (no movement breaks or interval
to rename/renumber files)until.......a cute warning came up saying I could
only record files of 2 Gb max. size, and it promptly dropped out of record
mode !! Almost wrecked the recording (fortunately I had DAT backup
running alongside, so I can graft the missing 30 seconds back in from that
source...phew !)
My question....how to increase that file size limit to cope with any
foreseeable live performance scenarios in future ? Thanks for your advice
and guidance,
Ray
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004
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Arny Krueger
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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"Ray Thomas" <rthomas@chariot.net.au> wrote in message
news:41aad3a4_3@news.chariot.net.au
| Quote: | Using Wavelab5/WindowsXP Pro/Echo Indigo pcm card into my laptop at
24/96 > direct into 120 Gig external HD last Saturday...all was fine
for the first 1 hour and 3 mins of a single 90 minute work (no
movement breaks or interval to rename/renumber files)until.......a
cute warning came up saying I could only record files of 2 Gb max.
|
This warning came from Wavelab?
This exchange dating from 2001, discusses this problem:
http://forum.cubase.net/forum/Forum3/HTML/007182.html
Apparently, it is well-known.
| Quote: | size, and it promptly dropped out of record mode !!
|
I'll bet.
| Quote: | Almost wrecked
the recording (fortunately I had DAT backup running alongside, so I
can graft the missing 30 seconds back in from that source...phew !)
|
Begs the question why waste disk space using such a high sample rate? Odds
are good that you are going to burn these files to a CD. CD is limited to
24/96. There is no known advantage to recording at such a vastly higher
sample rate then you would be distributing the music at. There are also no
known advantages to distributing music at 24/96, given the limitations of
human ears and most audio gear.
| Quote: | My question....how to increase that file size limit to cope with any
foreseeable live performance scenarios in future ?
Thanks for your advice and guidance,
|
Seems like you should either change your procedures or your software. |
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Steve Jorgensen
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:17 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:15:39 +1030, "Ray Thomas" <rthomas@chariot.net.au>
wrote:
| Quote: | Using Wavelab5/WindowsXP Pro/Echo Indigo pcm card into my laptop at 24/96
direct into 120 Gig external HD last Saturday...all was fine for the first
1hour and 3 mins of a single 90 minute work (no movement breaks or interval
to rename/renumber files)until.......a cute warning came up saying I could
only record files of 2 Gb max. size, and it promptly dropped out of record
mode !! Almost wrecked the recording (fortunately I had DAT backup
running alongside, so I can graft the missing 30 seconds back in from that
source...phew !)
My question....how to increase that file size limit to cope with any
foreseeable live performance scenarios in future ? Thanks for your advice
and guidance,
Ray
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004
|
The NTFS filesystem can handle much larger files than that, so unless you're
using a FAT filesystem, the problem lies with the software. Perhaps, there is
an update available for the software that overcomes the limitation.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_tdrn.asp |
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Phil Chamney
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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"Ray Thomas" <rthomas@chariot.net.au> wrote in
news:41aad3a4_3@news.chariot.net.au:
| Quote: | Using Wavelab5/WindowsXP Pro/Echo Indigo pcm card into my laptop at
24/96 > direct into 120 Gig external HD last Saturday...all was fine
for the first 1hour and 3 mins of a single 90 minute work (no movement
breaks or interval to rename/renumber files)until.......a cute warning
came up saying I could only record files of 2 Gb max. size, and it
promptly dropped out of record mode !! Almost wrecked the recording
(fortunately I had DAT backup running alongside, so I can graft the
missing 30 seconds back in from that source...phew !)
My question....how to increase that file size limit to cope with any
foreseeable live performance scenarios in future ? Thanks for your
advice and guidance,
Ray
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004
|
Just record using split file record mode.
Thsi is a well known Wavelab limit, and the author
Philippe Gautier has said it will be addressed in an
update soon.... |
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Arny Krueger
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:sqidnVP9XPUrjzbcRVn-uQ@comcast.com
Correction:
| Quote: | Begs the question why waste disk space using such a high sample rate?
Odds are good that you are going to burn these files to a CD. CD is
limited to 16/44. There is no known advantage to recording at such a
vastly higher sample rate then you would be distributing the music
at. There are also no known advantages to distributing music at
24/96, given the limitations of human ears and most audio gear. |
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howy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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| Quote: | to rename/renumber files)until.......a cute warning came up saying I could
only record files of 2 Gb max. size, and it promptly dropped out of record
|
The 2Gbyte limit comes from the fact that the size of a WAV file is
represented by a 32 bit number at the beginning of the file. When the
file size exceeds 2Gbytes, that number becomes negative when
interpreted as a signed integer. If the number is properly
interpreted you wind up with a 4Gbyte file size limitation.
FAT32 files (of any type) and WAV files both have an inherent files
size limitation of 4Gbytes.
If you were using NTFS or UDF as you file system, you could actually
make WAV files that are more than 4Gbytes long if the sound program
you are using just ignored the DataSize field in the WAV header and
used the operating system's file size info to acquire the actual size
of the WAV file.
This is going to become more of a problem as people try to record more
tracks at higher bitrates. We make a portable hard disk recorder that
can genetrate 192kHz/24bit/10track WAV files which hit the 4Gbyte
limit after only 12 minutes of recording!
Hard disk recorders are getting around this problem by starting a new
seamless WAV file when a user-selected file size limit has been
reached.
So your software could do this if enough users complained about it.
-howy |
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Len Moskowitz
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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howy <howard@zaxcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Hard disk recorders are getting around this problem by starting a new
seamless WAV file when a user-selected file size limit has been
reached.
|
Gidluck Mastering does this in their Live2496 recording application for
our PDAudio handheld 24/96 recorder. It can seamlessly chain up to five
4GB files together to give up to 10 hours of continuous 24/96 recording.
The latest feature they've added is to seamlessly chain between media
changes, so you can use cheap 1 GB CF or SD cards to record many hours
of 24/96 without any breaks. You don't have to buy the expensive 4 GB
(or larger) cards.
--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
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Rail Jon Rogut
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
The standard WAV file format only allows DWORD (4 byte) variable to save the
file size and data length in the file -- the maximum value for a DWORD
(unsigned long integer) is 4,294,967,295 - so a stereo file maximum length
would be half that.
Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com
mailto:rail@railjonrogut.com
"Steve Jorgensen" <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:44plq0pgmcn7fdg5cv9e05h4m0qdm91ejg@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:15:39 +1030, "Ray Thomas" <rthomas@chariot.net.au
wrote:
Using Wavelab5/WindowsXP Pro/Echo Indigo pcm card into my laptop at 24/96
direct into 120 Gig external HD last Saturday...all was fine for the first
1hour and 3 mins of a single 90 minute work (no movement breaks or
interval
to rename/renumber files)until.......a cute warning came up saying I could
only record files of 2 Gb max. size, and it promptly dropped out of record
mode !! Almost wrecked the recording (fortunately I had DAT backup
running alongside, so I can graft the missing 30 seconds back in from that
source...phew !)
My question....how to increase that file size limit to cope with any
foreseeable live performance scenarios in future ? Thanks for your
advice
and guidance,
Ray
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004
The NTFS filesystem can handle much larger files than that, so unless
you're
using a FAT filesystem, the problem lies with the software. Perhaps,
there is
an update available for the software that overcomes the limitation.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_tdrn.asp |
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S O'Neill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
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Rail Jon Rogut wrote:
| Quote: | The standard WAV file format only allows DWORD (4 byte) variable to save the
file size and data length in the file -- the maximum value for a DWORD
(unsigned long integer) is 4,294,967,295 - so a stereo file maximum length
would be half that.
|
And 16-bit half that, 24-bit 1/3 that. |
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Rail Jon Rogut
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
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|
I'm talking about the data chunk length and the file length value... the
sample rate and bit depth won't matter.. but the conversion from bytes to
time will differ.
Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com
mailto:rail@railjonrogut.com
"S O'Neill" <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:MomdnWozDZeM4jbcRVn-vQ@omsoft.com...
| Quote: | Rail Jon Rogut wrote:
The standard WAV file format only allows DWORD (4 byte) variable to save
the file size and data length in the file -- the maximum value for a
DWORD (unsigned long integer) is 4,294,967,295 - so a stereo file maximum
length would be half that.
And 16-bit half that, 24-bit 1/3 that. |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
In article <e137a0a0.0411290830.14584630@posting.google.com> howard@zaxcom.com writes:
| Quote: | Hard disk recorders are getting around this problem by starting a new
seamless WAV file when a user-selected file size limit has been
reached.
|
Where those people are running into problems is when they want to
"flatten" the file (put all of those pieces, as well as punch-ins,
edits, volume changes, etc.) into a continguous file to transfer it
to a workstation or store it for posterity. If the file is broken up
every fifteen minutes (the unalterable defalut for the Mackie
recorders) while you can record for eight hours straight (well, I
couldn't record for eight hours if I had to be straight for the whole
time) if you stitch all of that together, you end up with a file that
would exceed the 4GB limit.
In the case of the Mackie HDR24/96, it chugs along, appearing to work,
for a long time, comes to what appears as a normal finish, and then
crashes when you try to access the file that it tried to create.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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Len Moskowitz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Where those people are running into problems is when they want to
"flatten" the file (put all of those pieces, as well as punch-ins,
edits, volume changes, etc.) into a continguous file to transfer it
to a workstation or store it for posterity. If the file is broken up
every fifteen minutes (the unalterable defalut for the Mackie
recorders) while you can record for eight hours straight (well, I
couldn't record for eight hours if I had to be straight for the whole
time) if you stitch all of that together, you end up with a file that
would exceed the 4GB limit.
In the case of the Mackie HDR24/96, it chugs along, appearing to work,
for a long time, comes to what appears as a normal finish, and then
crashes when you try to access the file that it tried to create.
|
PDAudio, using Gidluck Mastering's Live2496 recording software has
fsolved this by allowing for seamless chaining between up to five 4 GB
files, allowing for continuous 24/96 recording for up to ten hours.
No other high-res recorder (home or field) can do this.
--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
In article <cogt4s$ruk$1@panix2.panix.com> moskowit@panix.com writes:
| Quote: | In the case of the Mackie HDR24/96, it chugs along, appearing to work,
for a long time, comes to what appears as a normal finish, and then
crashes when you try to access the file that it tried to create.
PDAudio, using Gidluck Mastering's Live2496 recording software has
fsolved this by allowing for seamless chaining between up to five 4 GB
files, allowing for continuous 24/96 recording for up to ten hours.
|
So how's the 24-track version coming along? <g>
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Len Moskowitz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
In article <znr1101824008k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
| Quote: | PDAudio, using Gidluck Mastering's Live2496 recording software has
fsolved this by allowing for seamless chaining between up to five 4 GB
files, allowing for continuous 24/96 recording for up to ten hours.
So how's the 24-track version coming along? <g
|
Golly, could you imagine a 24-channel snake hooked up to a PDA?
--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
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Logan Shaw
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: 2 Gb max file size...grrrr! |
|
|
james of tucson wrote:
| Quote: | On 2004-11-29, S O'Neill <nopsam@nospam.net> wrote:
And 16-bit half that, 24-bit 1/3 that.
Forgive me if I'm misinformed, but aren't 24-bit WAV's actually stored
on 32-bit word boundaries?
|
According to http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/wave.htm (which
isn't exactly authoritative, but does contain lots of info about
wav files that looks like it must've come from experience),
they aren't.
Apparently they are stored with samples rounded up to the nearest
multiple of 8 bits in little-endian format (least significant
byte first). So, a left channel sample of 0x123456 and a right
channel sample of 0xABCDEF would be stored as the byte sequence
{ 0x56, 0x34, 0x12, 0xEF, 0xCD, 0xAB }. They are signed integers,
though, so my hex notation doesn't make that clear, but that's
another issue.
- Logan |
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