| Author |
Message |
alan
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:15 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
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oops i meant ">"
--
"""""
x x
"alan" <.@.> wrote in message news:codpbi$9kv$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
| Quote: |
"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101649737k@trad...
Is there a substantial difference in their ages, or in the type of
music that they work with most often?
yes, it makes the class really great because they have completely
different
approaches, except that in class i keep thinking "but so and so said..."
one
instructor is very into analog, but you can see the purist in him tempered
by the availability of great new digi gizmos; and his students are
obviously
too poor for classic <$1000 compressors or even a few rnc's. i like
working
with the analog stuff when i can though, since the digital interfaces are
mostly modeled from the old analog anyways...
good topic, thanks for the help. does anyone have any recommendations for
software compressors? esp. free ones!
-alan
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Weatherman
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
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Mike...
many thanks to you for taking the trouble. And I take your point about maybe
looking at limiting. Thanks again. Much appreciated.
Jim
"Mike Caffrey" <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote in message
news:9b30ebb8.0411281550.777579f9@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "Weatherman" <Mrs. Henry@spamblock.com> wrote in message
news:<o58qd.38187$F7.665@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
Dear all,
I've been trying hard, through looking through the archives and
newsgroups,
etc as well as reading up, about compression. As a newbie, I understand
WHAT
compression is supposed to achive - more or less, still learning. But I
am
still stuck at HOW you actually apply it.
Do you apply compression to an incoming signal as it is played "live", or
do
you apply it to a pre-recorded track as you mix or ping pong?
Can compression make tracks which clip, reduce their level? My
experiments
say no, but I am just learning.
Finally (whilst I'm here, may as well go for broke) - although everyone
wioll have their own taste and style, and each song will have different
requirements, is their a basic starting point for people like me, as to
what
kind of compression to apply - i.e. settings - for say,
vocals
guitar
final mixdown
I'm intriguged by "what compresseion is supposed to achieve".
I'd say for vocal you want a limiting not compression. Guitar
compression or maybe nothing. Final mix, nothing or maybe a little
peak limiting.
Try setting up a compressor with a farly low threshold and high ratio.
Tro a moderate to quick release and the slowest attack possible. Then
run a varity of track through it. Probably this will be too much gain
reduction, but you'll see where compresion vs limiting should be
chosen. When you run you voclas through this, you probably hear a clik
at the begning of words or phrases. This is annoying. Use less gain
reudion and a fast attack for a limiting effect which will even them
out.
Try the original compresison setting on a kick drum or snare drum. Not
that clcik sound is emphasizing the attack of the drum and you'll
probably like it. Be cafull you relesae isnt' to sloo or that you
accidnetlaly kill the ghost notes and that the whole snare volum drops
for a long fill. This could sound good on bass and makybe acoustic
guitat. Keep in mind the original setting was meant to be extreme.
Try cutting it back by increasing the threshold and/or decreasing the
ratio so that that click effect is just barely audible on your
strummed acoustic track.
This is a start that is meant to help you hear compression, but keep
in mind some of the masters took years before they could hear this. |
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Les Cargill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
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Weatherman wrote:
| Quote: | Dear all,
I've been trying hard, through looking through the archives and newsgroups,
etc as well as reading up, about compression. As a newbie, I understand WHAT
compression is supposed to achive - more or less, still learning. But I am
still stuck at HOW you actually apply it.
|
How is pretty simple, too. You twist the knobs until they
acheive the desired effect.
The fun part is not "how", but "why".
Some examples:
- on a rhythm guitar part run thru a cheezy Leslie sim, I noticed
that the levels varied more than I liked as the Leslie
"swung". So I squished 'em.
- a bass part sounds pretty good, but it's not "present" enough,
and the arrangement is flawed in a way that makes the bass
"disappear". Compression modifies the note envelope such that
the part is more audible without using a bunch more mix bandwidth,
or without radical EQ.
Really, though, in this case, the arrangement should be fixed,
or EQ applied. But there have been times...
- You want the snare to "crack" - more leading transient. Or
you want to hear the strainer settle after each note. Two
different compression effects.
- You want a really washy ride cymbal, so you squash it
to make it spill out the sides.
| Quote: | Do you apply compression to an incoming signal as it is played "live", or do
you apply it to a pre-recorded track as you mix or ping pong?
|
Usally, it's more reversible after it's tracked. That's also a
choice, though - comitting to mix decisions earlier makes for
more interesting mixes.
| Quote: | Can compression make tracks which clip, reduce their level? My experiments
say no, but I am just learning.
|
No.
| Quote: | Finally (whilst I'm here, may as well go for broke) - although everyone
wioll have their own taste and style, and each song will have different
requirements, is their a basic starting point for people like me, as to what
kind of compression to apply - i.e. settings - for say,
vocals
guitar
final mixdown
|
Don't use any compression for final mixdown until you've pretty
much finished the mix, and then not much. Unless you want a
squooshed mix. But save an unsquooshed one so if you get tired
of the squooshed one, you can go back...
| Quote: |
Any advice, or pointers to websites, books, etc would be greatly
appreciated.
|
The thing to do is get a DAW package, add some compression plugins
and see what the knobs do. If you can swing some hardware
boxes, do that too, but the DAW ones will give you a *general*
idea for cheaper.
--
les Cargill |
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knud
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
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Play with the knobs and listen to what they do. Use that knowledge.
"I'm beginning to suspect that your problem is the gap between
what you say and what you think you have said."
-george (paraphrased) |
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Weatherman
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
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Many thanks Les....excellent advice.
Jim
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:0ERqd.73488$7i4.63414@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Weatherman wrote:
Dear all,
I've been trying hard, through looking through the archives and
newsgroups, etc as well as reading up, about compression. As a newbie, I
understand WHAT compression is supposed to achive - more or less, still
learning. But I am still stuck at HOW you actually apply it.
How is pretty simple, too. You twist the knobs until they
acheive the desired effect.
The fun part is not "how", but "why".
Some examples:
- on a rhythm guitar part run thru a cheezy Leslie sim, I noticed
that the levels varied more than I liked as the Leslie
"swung". So I squished 'em.
- a bass part sounds pretty good, but it's not "present" enough,
and the arrangement is flawed in a way that makes the bass "disappear".
Compression modifies the note envelope such that
the part is more audible without using a bunch more mix bandwidth,
or without radical EQ.
Really, though, in this case, the arrangement should be fixed,
or EQ applied. But there have been times...
- You want the snare to "crack" - more leading transient. Or
you want to hear the strainer settle after each note. Two
different compression effects.
- You want a really washy ride cymbal, so you squash it
to make it spill out the sides.
Do you apply compression to an incoming signal as it is played "live", or
do you apply it to a pre-recorded track as you mix or ping pong?
Usally, it's more reversible after it's tracked. That's also a
choice, though - comitting to mix decisions earlier makes for
more interesting mixes.
Can compression make tracks which clip, reduce their level? My
experiments say no, but I am just learning.
No.
Finally (whilst I'm here, may as well go for broke) - although everyone
wioll have their own taste and style, and each song will have different
requirements, is their a basic starting point for people like me, as to
what kind of compression to apply - i.e. settings - for say,
vocals
guitar
final mixdown
Don't use any compression for final mixdown until you've pretty much
finished the mix, and then not much. Unless you want a
squooshed mix. But save an unsquooshed one so if you get tired
of the squooshed one, you can go back...
Any advice, or pointers to websites, books, etc would be greatly
appreciated.
The thing to do is get a DAW package, add some compression plugins and see
what the knobs do. If you can swing some hardware
boxes, do that too, but the DAW ones will give you a *general*
idea for cheaper.
Jim
--
les Cargill |
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RD Jones
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:12 am Post subject:
Re: Compression - how to apply |
|
|
"Weatherman" <Mrs. Henry@spamblock.com> wrote in message news:<o58qd.38187$F7.665@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
| Quote: | Dear all,
I've been trying hard, through looking through the archives and newsgroups,
|
dBx conducted a workshop on compression/limiting in the 80's, and I
think I learned more there in 1 day than my previous years in radio
with all the 'leveling amps' and peak limiters simply because they
applied the information to both recording and live sound which is what
I had gotten into by that time.
Some of the info is touched on briefly at:
http://www.dbxpro.com/ftp_mirror/PDFs/WhitePapers/Compression%20101.pdf
| Quote: | etc as well as reading up, about compression. As a newbie, I understand WHAT
compression is supposed to achive - more or less, still learning. But I am
still stuck at HOW you actually apply it.
Do you apply compression to an incoming signal as it is played "live", or do
you apply it to a pre-recorded track as you mix or ping pong?
|
Normally, apply only to a track going in if it's absolutely needed
like on a
really rowdy vocal and then only enough to keep things from clipping.
Most signals need to be left clean until you decide how they will be
used in the mix. (Oh, it's OK to comp the bass guitar if it's lined in
but I like
to mike an amp, but that's just me ...)
| Quote: |
Can compression make tracks which clip, reduce their level? My experiments
say no, but I am just learning.
|
DIGITAL CLIPPING IS BAD, VERY BAD !
Control levels as needed to keep things out of the red.
If your using 16 bit: then some very dynamic sources (that rowdy
vocal,
a slapped bass, maybe drums) might be helped along by some slight
compression or maybe a peak limit just below the clip point.
24 bit should never need dynamics control going in.
| Quote: | Finally (whilst I'm here, may as well go for broke) - although everyone
wioll have their own taste and style, and each song will have different
requirements, is their a basic starting point for people like me, as to what
kind of compression to apply - i.e. settings - for say,
vocals
Probably the most appropriate source to compress but only just enough |
to
smooth out the loud stuff. If your'e reducing gain by more than 4-6 dB
on peaks it's too much.
| Quote: | guitar
electric: not needed |
acoustic: maybe just a bit- 2-3 dB
| Quote: | final mixdown
if it's a good mix it shouldn't need much if any, but if you are |
tempted
to compress a mix use a high pass filter ( dBx's 'contour') to keep
from
pumping on bass/kick. an eq in the sidechain rolled of below 100 or so
will work if the unit doesn't have a HPF.
| Quote: |
Any advice, or pointers to websites, books, etc would be greatly
appreciated.
|
If it's creating an audible effect then it's too much, unless you are
using it just as an effect.
Good Luck
RD |
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