| Author |
Message |
sarjo
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject:
Storing of raw video files |
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Many apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm just getting into
video editing.
I have an old camcorder along with several hours of footage (holidays
etc) which I've never edited, and now I'm the proud owner of a DV
camcorder I can get them captured on the PC. However I don't wish to
edit them down straight away, but rather than have to search the
individual tape when I begin to edit them down, I had the bright idea
of capturing the full files (often 45mins at a time) and then using
DVD's as simple storage and burning the files onto the DVD discs just
as simple AVI files. I then thought that when I'm ready I can simply
upload the files, break them up and edit them. If only life was that
simple.
I've tried Pinnacle Studo Quickstart, Moviemaker and Nero but when I
try to access the file, I only seem to get about 10mins of the file and
on many occasions the applications crash. I guess from this I have
several questions:
1) What am I doing wrong?
2) DVD is a storage medium, so burning files to it shouldn't be a
problem should it?
3) Why does Moviemaker, Pinnacle et al struggles to replay the files?
4) Is it possible to play the AVI file, if I can, and then capture as
you would with a camcorder?
I'd like to dispatch my analogue camcorder and tapes to the loft hence
my eagerness to access the files through disc instead of tape.
Hope you can help.
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aßigMeanie
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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On 11 Nov 2005 07:19:41 -0800, "sarjo"
<sargeson47@sargeson47.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Many apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm just getting into
video editing.
I have an old camcorder along with several hours of footage (holidays
etc) which I've never edited, and now I'm the proud owner of a DV
camcorder I can get them captured on the PC. However I don't wish to
edit them down straight away, but rather than have to search the
individual tape when I begin to edit them down, I had the bright idea
of capturing the full files (often 45mins at a time) and then using
DVD's as simple storage and burning the files onto the DVD discs just
as simple AVI files. I then thought that when I'm ready I can simply
upload the files, break them up and edit them. If only life was that
simple.
I've tried Pinnacle Studo Quickstart, Moviemaker and Nero but when I
try to access the file, I only seem to get about 10mins of the file and
on many occasions the applications crash. I guess from this I have
several questions:
1) What am I doing wrong?
2) DVD is a storage medium, so burning files to it shouldn't be a
problem should it?
3) Why does Moviemaker, Pinnacle et al struggles to replay the files?
4) Is it possible to play the AVI file, if I can, and then capture as
you would with a camcorder?
I'd like to dispatch my analogue camcorder and tapes to the loft hence
my eagerness to access the files through disc instead of tape.
Hope you can help.
|
try using winDV to capture from your cam. you are using firewire,
right? winDV is free.
http://windv.mourek.cz/
once the avi is on the harddrive complete, play it with a media
player. windows media player, quicktime or get the free media player
classic.
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84358
to make sure it's intact. then most cd/dvd burning programs have a
data mastering mode that will allow you to burn any file to dvd as
straight data. prassi ones is my favorite burning app. free 30 day
demo available.
http://shop.traxdata.fr/boutique/liste_produits.cfm?type=4&code_lg=lg_us
--
aßigMeanie
"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 |
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sarjo
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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I maybe didn't make myself clear. I've captured the material fine, and
I've also managed to burn it to a disc OK. What I can't seem to do is
access the material from the disc to then edit as normal. i.e. the
video files are now on DVD as intact .avi files, but when I try to
import them into Pinnacle, or Moviemaker or even winDVD, only about 10
mins of file imports, hence I'm unable to carry out what I originally
intended which is to edit down the raw video files, which are now on
disc as opposed to tape. |
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D & J G
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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"sarjo" <sargeson47@sargeson47.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1131728557.011140.189080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I maybe didn't make myself clear. I've captured the material fine, and
I've also managed to burn it to a disc OK. What I can't seem to do is
access the material from the disc to then edit as normal. i.e. the
video files are now on DVD as intact .avi files, but when I try to
import them into Pinnacle, or Moviemaker or even winDVD, only about 10
mins of file imports, hence I'm unable to carry out what I originally
intended which is to edit down the raw video files, which are now on
disc as opposed to tape.
|
Do they play on the Windows media player? Could it be the DVDs? Do the
files copy from the DVD back to the hard drive OK (then play on W/Media
player)? Have you tried converting to MPEG format?
You'll have to put them back to the HD anyway to edit them. Files on disc
usually become 'read only'.
Don |
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aßigMeanie
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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On 11 Nov 2005 09:02:37 -0800, "sarjo"
<sargeson47@sargeson47.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I maybe didn't make myself clear. I've captured the material fine, and
I've also managed to burn it to a disc OK. What I can't seem to do is
access the material from the disc to then edit as normal. i.e. the
video files are now on DVD as intact .avi files, but when I try to
import them into Pinnacle, or Moviemaker or even winDVD, only about 10
mins of file imports, hence I'm unable to carry out what I originally
intended which is to edit down the raw video files, which are now on
disc as opposed to tape.
|
did you try copying them back to the hard drive as files and then
using the files off the hard drive as the input? test play the avi
once it is back on the h.d. to see if it's complete.
--
aßigMeanie
"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 |
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The Wizard of Oz
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:54 am Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:02:37 -0800, sarjo wrote:
| Quote: | I maybe didn't make myself clear. I've captured the material fine, and
I've also managed to burn it to a disc OK. What I can't seem to do is
access the material from the disc to then edit as normal. i.e. the
video files are now on DVD as intact .avi files, but when I try to
import them into Pinnacle, or Moviemaker or even winDVD, only about 10
mins of file imports, hence I'm unable to carry out what I originally
intended which is to edit down the raw video files, which are now on
disc as opposed to tape.
|
This is going to be rather generic (since I use a different OS than you
do). Sometimes it helps to rephrase a problem to get a different
perspective.
First a recap of what you've managed to do. You've taken a series of
videos and transfered them to your computer. The file format of the files
is AVI. You've managed to transfer the AVI files to a *data* DVD. The
files play (or should play) fine in what ever video player you are using
from the DVD.
Next, let's restate your goals. You want to take your AVI files from the
*data* DVD and edit them together to produce a "more finished" product.
Presumably you'd like to put the final result on at least one *video* DVD.
Now for the problems. Although the AVI files play fine in your media
player (from the DVD), only about 10 minutes is imported into your video
editor programs.
How am I doing so far?
Since I don't know you from Adam (ie. I've never met you and all I know
about you is what I've seen here), I'm going to make some assumptions. I
am going to assume you are fairly familiar with your video editing
program. I am also going to assume you know a fair bit about computers. I
am going to assume you tried this with more than one AVI. I am going to
assume you still have your tapes in case my assumptions are wrong.
The key here is you said you were only able to get about 10 minutes of
video. There are a finite number of reasons why you'd not be able to
import the full video. Let's dispose of the less likely possibilities
first. Since you've tried a number of programs with the same result, the
programs are not likely to be the problem. Especially since you've stated
you end up with roughly the same amount of video each time. Something
which is possible but not likely is Digital Rights Management (DRM). DRM
is a wide sweeping concept related to content management. In this context
it could be an anti-piracy scheme dreamt up by Micro$oft and Hollywood.
After all "Only professionals would ever want to make more than 10 minutes
of video and they should pay for permission to do so (by signing up with
what ever entity is in charge)". Next could be an error in the AVIs. One
maybe but more than one or two would be a tough call. Each of these can be
easily verified or dismissed.
More likely is the machine itself. Video takes up a tremendous amount of
space. You will need a lot of RAM and hard drive space to do anything
useful in the way of editing. First, ALL computers are happier if you give
them more RAM. The single exception is most *early* computers had problems
with memory totalling 768 (256 + 512) of any magnitude. It helps with
speed and hard disk access. The amount of free hard drive space is also
very important. Let's leave out the amount taken up by the operating
system and programs... You'll need more than twice the size of the
original video at minimum. There needs to be room for temporary files, the
original files, intermediate files, and the final product.
Determining the size of the data isn't easy. Looking at the AVI files on
the DVD isn't good enough. There are ways to fit more video into a smaller
space. The video DVD standard uses a variant of the MPEG compression
system. The "MP" part stands for Motion Picture (same people as the "MP"
in MPAA the MPEG folks are the technical group). It is an old technique
which was good for the day. Other formats such as AVI came out later and
were much "tighter" in terms of size. In practise you can fit a longer (in
minutes) AVI on a DVD compared to an MPEG. A video editor program needs to
uncompress the video before it can be worked on. Perhaps all the programs
you use are just working with 10 minute chunks of the files.
There is going to be another problem with RAM and hard drive space which
is going to come back and bite you. This is the quality and size of the
final result. By quality, I refer primarily to bit rate. The higher the
bit rate the more space you will need (because there will be more data).
Size is a rather obvious demand on space. The larger the frame is, the
more data it will use. I mention this because I have a program which will
transform a video meant for a standard TV into a higher resolution
by running a mathematical transformation on it. Basically it increases the
dots from 1x1 to 2x2 pixels or larger. Although you may have your DVD
filled with a single 30 minute AVI, you may only be able to create a video
DVD with 10 minutes of video depending on what options you want.
Sorry for the large reply. I just wanted to make sure you were covering
the basics so we can narrow down what and why the problem is. For example
if it does turn out all the programs you are using are editing 10 minute
chunks the problem now turns into one of increasing the chunk size or
moving to the next chunk. Then we don't have to deal with a shortage of
disk space as an issue.
Later
Mike |
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Steve
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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Just a hunch: try this...
Make sure the .avi ead only"file on your hard drive is not "read only".
(Some files like databases inherit the "read only status from the
CDRom they were stored on).
Steve |
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sarjo
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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Thanks for all your help (especially Mike's comprehensive answer).
I think I've narrowed it down to simply too much data into the machine.
What I've decided to do is recapture them into Pinnacle (so far I've
enjoyed working with this package, although I know it has some bad
press), but I've turned on the scene generation tool to generate a
scene every 2 mins, Pinnacle et al seeme to like this so that when I re
load off the disc, it all comes up as required.
So it's down to some serious editing.
Thanks |
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Rob R
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Storing of raw video files |
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sarjo wrote:
| Quote: | Many apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm just getting into
video editing.
I have an old camcorder along with several hours of footage (holidays
etc) which I've never edited, and now I'm the proud owner of a DV
camcorder I can get them captured on the PC. However I don't wish to
edit them down straight away, but rather than have to search the
individual tape when I begin to edit them down, I had the bright idea
of capturing the full files (often 45mins at a time) and then using
DVD's as simple storage and burning the files onto the DVD discs just
as simple AVI files. I then thought that when I'm ready I can simply
upload the files, break them up and edit them. If only life was that
simple.
I've tried Pinnacle Studo Quickstart, Moviemaker and Nero but when I
try to access the file, I only seem to get about 10mins of the file and
on many occasions the applications crash. I guess from this I have
several questions:
1) What am I doing wrong?
2) DVD is a storage medium, so burning files to it shouldn't be a
problem should it?
3) Why does Moviemaker, Pinnacle et al struggles to replay the files?
4) Is it possible to play the AVI file, if I can, and then capture as
you would with a camcorder?
I'd like to dispatch my analogue camcorder and tapes to the loft hence
my eagerness to access the files through disc instead of tape.
Hope you can help.
|
Hi Sarjo,
I have been looking at the replies so far to your request, and as far as
I can see, they all miss the problem. What I suspect from the
information you have given in your subsequent responses is that you are
running up against a hard file size limit on your operating system.
Under the assumption that you are storing DV video directly, you are
consuming approximately 13GB per hour of video. But when you read it
back, you can access only about 10 minutes worth. Working backward, this
is about 2.1GB of data. Sound familiar? The FAT32 file system from
Microsoft limits files to this size or less. Later file systems, like
NTFS, have a much larger limit. I suggest that you may need at least a
file system upgrade (if you are running Windows XP) or even an operating
system upgrade (if you are running Windows 98 or even Windows 2000).
I don't know how you got the data on the DVD to begin with, but I will
presume that the software you are using is aware of the file size limits
and pastes the files together when you write them to the DVD. Either
that or that software is screwing up as well - not enough information to
tell.
I would suggest that you buy a "huge" external USB2.0 disk drive (and
controller card if needed) and store the data you want there. Use that
drive for your editing as well. Remember to format the drive as NTFS,
not FAT32.
I use a 250GB USB2.0 drive for my video capture and editing. I am also
using Linux (Fedora Core 4) with an ext3 file system which doesn't have
the 2.1GB file size limit. To anticipate others' questions, the drive is
fast enough to capture DV video in real time.
--
Rob R
mail me at Enigma dash I at charter dot net |
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