| Author |
Message |
J Warren
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:
HiMD update |
|
|
I've been pestering SONY tech support for a few weeks to find out why
pcm recordings I make on my HiMD unit vanish after I transfer them (via
USB) to my PC. Never did get a satisfactory answer from them, but a
contributor to the alt.audio.minidisc NG solved the problem. There's a
checkbox in the Transfer dialog that instructs SonicStage to leave the
original recordings on the MD alone. It works. I had had good luck
transferring pcm recordings and then converting them with SONY's Wave
Convertor program, but was miffed that SonicStage was deleting them
after the transfer. That's no longer an issue.
So, I'm pleased. I have recorded my wife's vocal group with the HiMD
unit by connecting it to the mixer. It's only two tracks, and not
stereo, since I'm recording the PA feed, but the quality is adequate for
our purposes. I recorded some silence--mixer gain all the way down--to
see how much noise was sneaking through (or getting generated by the
HiMD MZ-NH900). Sound Forge reports that it's below -70dB in the
converted .wav file. Listening with phones with the gain WAY up doesn't
disclose anything objectionable - no digital rattles, hum, etc.
Jason
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
In article <MPG.1c0db857883b253d9897f3@news.verizon.net> cipher@sitefinder.verisign.com writes:
| Quote: | There's a
checkbox in the Transfer dialog that instructs SonicStage to leave the
original recordings on the MD alone. It works. I had had good luck
transferring pcm recordings and then converting them with SONY's Wave
Convertor program
|
So how does this work? The HiMD records a PCM file that's something
other than a WAV format, you transfer this to your PC, and then run
another program to convert it to WAV? Or does the SonicStage program
convert it in the transfer process?
It seems rather silly for deleting the file on the Minidisk after a
transfer to be the default. After all, the only reason to use a
recorder with removable/cheap-enough-to-store media over something
that records to a hard drive or flash card is that you can put the
disk on the shelf and load its files some time in the future. But if
there's a non-standard or proprietary format recorded on the disk, I
wouldn't count on it being a very effective shelf copy. Might as well
delete it so you're not tempted to store it for posterity.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Edi Zubovic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
On 27 Nov 2004 08:04:04 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
------------8<----------------------
| Quote: |
So how does this work? The HiMD records a PCM file that's something
other than a WAV format, you transfer this to your PC, and then run
another program to convert it to WAV? Or does the SonicStage program
convert it in the transfer process?
HiMD records PCM in a file with the proprietary extension "*.oma". Up |
to recently, Sonic Stage hasn't even been capable of transferring it
to any other usable format; it merely offered listening to a
transferred recording with its own player. It's a totally useless
approach. Oh yes, it offered burning a "ATRAC-CD" (???), the kind of
CD writing I don't bother to think about and I don't frankly know
where I could listen to such Atrac CD's. I hastened to get the burner
application off from the Windows startup. But soon a good soul has
made a free downloadable convertor program which is converting the
"*.omg" to *.wav format. Upon a public demand, and following some sane
logics, and probably seeing that out there there is something they
call the I-Pod, Sony published their own OMA-to-WAW converter which
works well. You can access the attached a Sony HiMD (with either a 1
GB HiMD disk or a normal Minidisc formatted to abt 360 MB) as the file
structure is FAT32. But you can't do much with the audio file formats.
| Quote: | It seems rather silly for deleting the file on the Minidisk after a
transfer to be the default. After all, the only reason to use a
recorder with removable/cheap-enough-to-store media over something
that records to a hard drive or flash card is that you can put the
disk on the shelf and load its files some time in the future. But if
there's a non-standard or proprietary format recorded on the disk, I
wouldn't count on it being a very effective shelf copy. Might as well
delete it so you're not tempted to store it for posterity.
I've rarely seen more paranoic approach as to copy protecting other |
than Sonic Stage. You can only from within the program transfer the
files via USB 1.1. They call it High Speed but I call it Somewhat
Higher Speed. Nevertheless, a transfer is digital w/o further
conversions and that's good enough. For a 1 hr. 25. min 44/16 file you
need abt. an hour to transfer. There are some other limitations as to
what kind of files and from what sources one can upload/download the
music but I'm satisfied that I can do own uncompressed PCM recordings
so I didn't study in detail what I can do and what I can't.
The program is so weird that it calls a Sony database via Internet not
only at the first install but also later, as it seems fit (perhaps
after defragmeting, a work with the registry or so). It refuses to
load until the Internet connection is established and it checks its
status in the database.
It offers to you some music to buy from the Internet (why should I),
as well.
I think Sony could make some more money to make things easier to eg.
broadcast people which could handle makeshift but quite quality
recordings on the spot and transfer it for broadcast by drag and drop.
But, naay... "It's a Sony".
From the techincal/hardware side, the MZ-NH1 is a little gem, though.
Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:09 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
In article <eadhq0l0vherile43ukpg5ii5mc398cnvb@4ax.com> this].@ri.htnet.hr writes:
| Quote: | I've rarely seen more paranoic approach as to copy protecting other
than Sonic Stage. You can only from within the program transfer the
files via USB 1.1.
|
Well, the original Sony NetMD would certainly qualify. That was the
system that wouldn't let you transfer a file out of the USB port at
all unless it go on the Minidisk from the computer. In other words, no
file transfers of original recordings.
| Quote: | For a 1 hr. 25. min 44/16 file you
need abt. an hour to transfer.
|
Sounds like a project for when you're around doing something else. On
the Jukebox 3, a USB 1.1 transfer of an hour's worth of recording
takes about 15 minutes, give or take a cup of coffee. I understand
that Firewire is much faster, but I don't have a computer with a
Firewire port so I haven't experienced it.
| Quote: | The program is so weird that it calls a Sony database via Internet not
only at the first install but also later, as it seems fit (perhaps
after defragmeting, a work with the registry or so). It refuses to
load until the Internet connection is established and it checks its
status in the database.
|
Well, I guess that makes it useless in a field application unless you
happen to have a phone line or a wireless Internet connection. So is
there any advantage of the HiMD over some other media (other than
perhaps that it sounds better than a cassette)? Curious minds want to
know what Sony was thinking of, and why some perfectly respectable
people were waiting for this technology with baited breath.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frank Vuotto
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:06 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
On 27 Nov 2004 18:48:27 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
| Quote: | Well, the original Sony NetMD would certainly qualify. That was the
system that wouldn't let you transfer a file out of the USB port at
all unless it go on the Minidisk from the computer. In other words, no
file transfers of original recordings.
|
I have 2 Sony products that use braindead software, a Net MD MZ-S1 and
a DVD101 DVD camcorder. I've never been able to access the camcorder
from the Imagemixer program (and I use the term loosly) on any
computer and sonic stage, more crap.
What's with Sony that they have such distrain for their customers.
I'll never buy another Sony product ( well, maybe just that gorgeous
LCD monitor and then never again )
Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
J Warren <nobody@invalid.urp> wrote in message news:<MPG.1c0db857883b253d9897f3@news.verizon.net>...
| Quote: | I've been pestering SONY tech support for a few weeks to find out why
pcm recordings I make on my HiMD unit vanish after I transfer them (via
USB) to my PC. Never did get a satisfactory answer from them, but a
contributor to the alt.audio.minidisc NG solved the problem. There's a
checkbox in the Transfer dialog that instructs SonicStage to leave the
original recordings on the MD alone. It works. I had had good luck
transferring pcm recordings and then converting them with SONY's Wave
Convertor program, but was miffed that SonicStage was deleting them
after the transfer. That's no longer an issue.
So, I'm pleased. I have recorded my wife's vocal group with the HiMD
unit by connecting it to the mixer. It's only two tracks, and not
stereo, since I'm recording the PA feed, but the quality is adequate for
our purposes. I recorded some silence--mixer gain all the way down--to
see how much noise was sneaking through (or getting generated by the
HiMD MZ-NH900). Sound Forge reports that it's below -70dB in the
converted .wav file. Listening with phones with the gain WAY up doesn't
disclose anything objectionable - no digital rattles, hum, etc.
Jason
|
Have you compared the ATRAC mode to the PCM mode?
Can you hear a difference?
Really?
Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Edi Zubovic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
On 27 Nov 2004 18:48:27 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <eadhq0l0vherile43ukpg5ii5mc398cnvb@4ax.com> this].@ri.htnet.hr writes:
I've rarely seen more paranoic approach as to copy protecting other
than Sonic Stage. You can only from within the program transfer the
files via USB 1.1.
Well, the original Sony NetMD would certainly qualify. That was the
system that wouldn't let you transfer a file out of the USB port at
all unless it go on the Minidisk from the computer. In other words, no
file transfers of original recordings.
|
{Sigh}. Even RIAA would say that's too much.
| Quote: |
For a 1 hr. 25. min 44/16 file you
need abt. an hour to transfer.
Sounds like a project for when you're around doing something else. On
the Jukebox 3, a USB 1.1 transfer of an hour's worth of recording
takes about 15 minutes, give or take a cup of coffee. I understand
that Firewire is much faster, but I don't have a computer with a
Firewire port so I haven't experienced it.
|
First I've seen that the transfer is USB 1.1 I thought what the heck,
it should be the USB 2. But soon I realized there's no need for a
higher bandwidth when I saw the device softly rattling a little, then
flashing the red LED a little as the buffers fill and empty. Oh, well.
I can't afford a Nagra V and yes, there are other solutions already
present competing to the HiMD as to portability. As to Firewire, it
may be as broad as the USB 2 or thereabouts. I have a Plextor external
DVD burner connected via Firewire and it's working well at all
situations, not limited by the maximum data amount the Plextor can
give and receive. But consider a diskette drive connected to the USB,
that' s I think roughly the HiMD. Not much kb per sec -- until and if
I find out that I've done something not quite properly in connecting
the device, what I doubt but OK...
| Quote: |
The program is so weird that it calls a Sony database via Internet not
only at the first install but also later, as it seems fit (perhaps
after defragmeting, a work with the registry or so). It refuses to
load until the Internet connection is established and it checks its
status in the database.
Well, I guess that makes it useless in a field application unless you
happen to have a phone line or a wireless Internet connection. So is
there any advantage of the HiMD over some other media (other than
perhaps that it sounds better than a cassette)? Curious minds want to
know what Sony was thinking of, and why some perfectly respectable
people were waiting for this technology with baited breath.
|
Well, let me speculate -- now when Sony has acquired quite huge and
known names in entertainment industry, they think they should control
the world's distribution. C'mon Sony. The situation is not at all that
black to force you to hamper your customers this way. I think that
Sony tries by all means to limit copying of PCM data which are
regarded as being the 1:1 copy of masters or commercial CDs. ATRAC is
allowed to handle with a little bit more freely as it is compressed
and changes the sound -- a little but it does. I see the HiMD as a
poor man's portable hard disk recorder giving quite fine results (it
seems the electronics and A/D converters are OK; it all is new and I
think that Sony had rarely issues concerning their hardware
engineering and R&D). So I would have been happy to get a still
another external unit to show in the, say Windows Explorer, where I
could see, and handle with, the wav files -- and other data -- I
downloaded or uploaded, no matter; and OK, notwhitstanding the slow
transfer speeds. That I can copy everything regardless and usual copy
protection and copyrights depends on my ethics firstly. And then there
is the law. Sony's own control isn't that needed to set me back in
doing my own recordings. And I would register with Sony as a customer
if I want to and no, I don't want my PC to be sniffed without my
knowledge and yes by jingo I want to have my paid software functioning
as I expect in all situations and everywhere. And I certainly don't
expect to be [____ you fill] off because I don't have an Internet
connection handy.
Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:42:00 +0100, Edi Zubovic <edi.zubovic[rem
this].@ri.htnet.hr> wrote:
| Quote: | On 27 Nov 2004 08:04:04 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
------------8<----------------------
So how does this work? The HiMD records a PCM file that's something
other than a WAV format, you transfer this to your PC, and then run
another program to convert it to WAV? Or does the SonicStage program
convert it in the transfer process?
HiMD records PCM in a file with the proprietary extension "*.oma". Up
to recently, Sonic Stage hasn't even been capable of transferring it
to any other usable format; it merely offered listening to a
transferred recording with its own player. It's a totally useless
approach. Oh yes, it offered burning a "ATRAC-CD" (???), the kind of
CD writing I don't bother to think about and I don't frankly know
where I could listen to such Atrac CD's. I hastened to get the burner
application off from the Windows startup. But soon a good soul has
made a free downloadable convertor program which is converting the
"*.omg" to *.wav format. Upon a public demand, and following some sane
logics, and probably seeing that out there there is something they
call the I-Pod, Sony published their own OMA-to-WAW converter which
works well. You can access the attached a Sony HiMD (with either a 1
GB HiMD disk or a normal Minidisc formatted to abt 360 MB) as the file
structure is FAT32. But you can't do much with the audio file formats.
It seems rather silly for deleting the file on the Minidisk after a
transfer to be the default. After all, the only reason to use a
recorder with removable/cheap-enough-to-store media over something
that records to a hard drive or flash card is that you can put the
disk on the shelf and load its files some time in the future. But if
there's a non-standard or proprietary format recorded on the disk, I
wouldn't count on it being a very effective shelf copy. Might as well
delete it so you're not tempted to store it for posterity.
I've rarely seen more paranoic approach as to copy protecting other
than Sonic Stage. You can only from within the program transfer the
files via USB 1.1. They call it High Speed but I call it Somewhat
Higher Speed. Nevertheless, a transfer is digital w/o further
conversions and that's good enough. For a 1 hr. 25. min 44/16 file you
need abt. an hour to transfer. There are some other limitations as to
what kind of files and from what sources one can upload/download the
music but I'm satisfied that I can do own uncompressed PCM recordings
so I didn't study in detail what I can do and what I can't.
The program is so weird that it calls a Sony database via Internet not
only at the first install but also later, as it seems fit (perhaps
after defragmeting, a work with the registry or so). It refuses to
load until the Internet connection is established and it checks its
status in the database.
It offers to you some music to buy from the Internet (why should I),
as well.
I think Sony could make some more money to make things easier to eg.
broadcast people which could handle makeshift but quite quality
recordings on the spot and transfer it for broadcast by drag and drop.
But, naay... "It's a Sony".
From the techincal/hardware side, the MZ-NH1 is a little gem, though.
Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
|
Thanks for your review, it is very helpful. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
In article <068iq0tclhfu9bvo13r4pag0ga6s4d0rjr@4ax.com> deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | What's with Sony that they have such distrain for their customers.
|
Could be that they own more intellectual property (music, film and
video) than any other electronic hardware manufacturer.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Edi Zubovic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:11:36 +0000, jobs@mistral.net wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:42:00 +0100, Edi Zubovic <edi.zubovic[rem
--------------------8<-------------------
I think Sony could make some more money to make things easier to eg.
broadcast people which could handle makeshift but quite quality
recordings on the spot and transfer it for broadcast by drag and drop.
But, naay... "It's a Sony".
From the techincal/hardware side, the MZ-NH1 is a little gem, though.
Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
Thanks for your review, it is very helpful.
|
You're welcome! --Hovever, since I made these observations outright
(even without peeking into the User's Manual a lot), they would
represent my current opinion about the device and may be by far
imperfect and incomplete.
Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frank Vuotto
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
| Quote: | mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1101649147k@trad>...
Could be that they own more intellectual property (music, film and
video) than any other electronic hardware manufacturer.
|
Well, they act like they own MINE too. All I want is easy access to my
own original recordings.
Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
Paul <tungarbulb@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1101649147k@trad>...
In article <068iq0tclhfu9bvo13r4pag0ga6s4d0rjr@4ax.com> deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:
What's with Sony that they have such distrain for their customers.
Could be that they own more intellectual property (music, film and
video) than any other electronic hardware manufacturer.
I think SONY has the Bill Gates disease...
|
No, Sony is a bunch of different divisions that don't talk to one another.
Hell, the professional and consumer divisions are practically at war with
one another. The Sony Pictures folks and the Sony Music people don't talk
to the consumer or pro audio people either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paul
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1101649147k@trad>...
| Quote: | In article <068iq0tclhfu9bvo13r4pag0ga6s4d0rjr@4ax.com> deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:
What's with Sony that they have such distrain for their customers.
Could be that they own more intellectual property (music, film and
video) than any other electronic hardware manufacturer.
|
I think SONY has the Bill Gates disease... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paul
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
Edi Zubovic <edi.zubovic[rem this].@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message news:<kg2jq096lsjddhuhnoaru6j2n9jnhvlr46@4ax.com>...
(snippage)
| Quote: | Oh, well.
I can't afford a Nagra V and yes, there are other solutions already
present competing to the HiMD as to portability.
|
Apart from flash media recorders, old-style Creative Nomad jukeboxes
with built-in line inputs and laptops with external audio interfaces,
what is there? AFAIK, the newer portables (Ipods, Nomad jukeboxes,
etc.) cannot record from a mic or line input. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Len Moskowitz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject:
Re: HiMD update |
|
|
Edi Zubovic <edi.zubovic[rem this].@ri.htnet.hr> wrote:
| Quote: | From the techincal/hardware side, the MZ-NH1 is a little gem, though.
|
I'm not surprised to read about the way Sony has crippled data transfer
out of their Hi-MD recorders and how they've selected a proprietrary
data format. Sony has no interest in making high quality home recording
and copying easy.
Following Sony's usual consumer product script, the MZ-NH1 will be
discontinued in roughly a year, not be economical to repair once it's
out of warranty, and parts for it will not be stocked after roughly
three years.
--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in