| Author |
Message |
Wilbur Slice
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
On 12 Nov 2005 09:07:27 -0800, "musea/Tom Hendricks/H&PD"
<tomhendricks474@cs.com> wrote:
| Quote: | zuuum wrote:
Several songs con be copyrighted as a single "work" which cannot be copied
in whole OR in part. This is not intended for "albums" at all. It can be
any body of work, such as an opera. One could compile a single work of
their entire life's songwriting output, or a decade or a year, or while you
were in a particular location. As stated below, one does not have to notate
works that are submitted, as there are sound recordings which could never be
transcribed as musical staff notation.
I agree with zuuum. This is the way to go. I copyright 50 or 60 songs
at a time. I label them group #__ .
I've copyrighted over 1200 songs that way. For us songwriters, its
the best protection for little price.
|
Protection from *what*, exactly? How much money have you made from
people paying you royalties for selling covers of your songs? How
many times have you taken someone to court to make them pay you the
royalties you are entitled to?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Malcolm Dew-Jones
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
Guitarboy (Guitarboy@stringalong.com) wrote:
: In article <3tnandFtoansU1@individual.net>, Chel van Gennip
: <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:
: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:50:37 +0100, Green/Pace wrote:
: >
: > > If you don't have your songs registered, most judges if any, will not
: > > hear your case. If you have registered songs & you win, then they have
: > > to pay your legal fees, plus what they have made. Go to the copyright
: > > office url for more info. You can register unlimited "non published"
: > > songs. $30.00. Got my registration for 30 songs back in 3 weeks. Texas
: > > Blue
: >
: > If you want to register many songs, they do accept data DVD's with WAV or
: > even MP3 files. Make shure you label the DVD right, to indicate it is a data
: > DVD and the file format. A printable or lightscribe DVD will give you a
: > reliable medium and label.
: One more time. Your copyright exists from the moment of creation of the
: song. A registered copyright is just that, A CLAIM to ownership. You
: can have a copyright and not have it registered. You can register your
: copyright 3 years after someone else did and still have a valid claim
: to the song. The only case in which the date on which you registered
: your copyright comes into play is if you win in court and you
: registered your copyright before the infringement took place, you get
: statutory attorneys fees. THAT'S IT. If you register your copyright
: after the infringement took place (let's say the release of the song on
: a recording) you do not get statutory attorneys fees. In that case it's
: up to the judge if you win.
I am not convinced that is correct. Feel free to point out the section of
the copyright law that proves what you say.
My understanding is that there are various forms of damages for which you
can sue. Those damages can be very substantial, as in, much larger than
the money that would otherwise be involved in the use of the song. Those
damages can only occur after the date the song is registered. A defendent
can be made to pay the normal fees that they should have paid for use of
the song before the registration date, but they can only be made to pay
damages for the occasions when they illegally used the song after the
registration date.
The song may have made virtualy no money, so the normal fees may well be
basically nothing, but the damages can still be substantial. They are
typicaly the largest part of any settlement.
(Whether it is worth while for a song writer to register is another
matter, and I'm not suggesting anything one way or the other for that.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guitarboy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
In article <43769fe5$1@news.victoria.tc.ca>, Malcolm Dew-Jones
<yf110@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Guitarboy (Guitarboy@stringalong.com) wrote:
: In article <3tnandFtoansU1@individual.net>, Chel van Gennip
: <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:
: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:50:37 +0100, Green/Pace wrote:
:
: > > If you don't have your songs registered, most judges if any, will not
: > > hear your case. If you have registered songs & you win, then they have
: > > to pay your legal fees, plus what they have made. Go to the copyright
: > > office url for more info. You can register unlimited "non published"
: > > songs. $30.00. Got my registration for 30 songs back in 3 weeks. Texas
: > > Blue
:
: > If you want to register many songs, they do accept data DVD's with WAV or
: > even MP3 files. Make shure you label the DVD right, to indicate it is a
: > data
: > DVD and the file format. A printable or lightscribe DVD will give you a
: > reliable medium and label.
: One more time. Your copyright exists from the moment of creation of the
: song. A registered copyright is just that, A CLAIM to ownership. You
: can have a copyright and not have it registered. You can register your
: copyright 3 years after someone else did and still have a valid claim
: to the song. The only case in which the date on which you registered
: your copyright comes into play is if you win in court and you
: registered your copyright before the infringement took place, you get
: statutory attorneys fees. THAT'S IT. If you register your copyright
: after the infringement took place (let's say the release of the song on
: a recording) you do not get statutory attorneys fees. In that case it's
: up to the judge if you win.
I am not convinced that is correct. Feel free to point out the section of
the copyright law that proves what you say.
My understanding is that there are various forms of damages for which you
can sue. Those damages can be very substantial, as in, much larger than
the money that would otherwise be involved in the use of the song. Those
damages can only occur after the date the song is registered. A defendent
can be made to pay the normal fees that they should have paid for use of
the song before the registration date, but they can only be made to pay
damages for the occasions when they illegally used the song after the
registration date.
The song may have made virtualy no money, so the normal fees may well be
basically nothing, but the damages can still be substantial. They are
typicaly the largest part of any settlement.
(Whether it is worth while for a song writer to register is another
matter, and I'm not suggesting anything one way or the other for that.)
|
You obviously don't know a thing about copyright law. Read a book on
it. My knowledge is based on first hand experience with people who
actually did steal material I wrote and had it commercially released. I
had a lawyer. The record didn't make much money. We settled out of
court. For not very much money. BECAUSE IT WASN'T WORTH GOING TO COURT
OVER IT.
What are the damages? If the song made nothing, it is worth nothing
therefore the damages are treble (triple) nothing. how much is zero
times three? Ok lets say it made $10. How much is $10 times 3? $30. You
gonna file a $10,000 copyright infringement suit in federal court over
$30? You'd be a fool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guitarboy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
In article <3tnandFtoansU1@individual.net>, Chel van Gennip
<chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:50:37 +0100, Green/Pace wrote:
If you don't have your songs registered, most judges if any, will not
hear your case. If you have registered songs & you win, then they have
to pay your legal fees, plus what they have made. Go to the copyright
office url for more info. You can register unlimited "non published"
songs. $30.00. Got my registration for 30 songs back in 3 weeks. Texas
Blue
If you want to register many songs, they do accept data DVD's with WAV or
even MP3 files. Make shure you label the DVD right, to indicate it is a data
DVD and the file format. A printable or lightscribe DVD will give you a
reliable medium and label.
|
One more time. Your copyright exists from the moment of creation of the
song. A registered copyright is just that, A CLAIM to ownership. You
can have a copyright and not have it registered. You can register your
copyright 3 years after someone else did and still have a valid claim
to the song. The only case in which the date on which you registered
your copyright comes into play is if you win in court and you
registered your copyright before the infringement took place, you get
statutory attorneys fees. THAT'S IT. If you register your copyright
after the infringement took place (let's say the release of the song on
a recording) you do not get statutory attorneys fees. In that case it's
up to the judge if you win.
Also, the song has to have generated enough money to make a federal
suit worth it. A suit in federal court can cost up to $10k in attorneys
fees. Be realistic. Most pro writers do NOT register copyrights until
the song is about to be released. So if you're in your bedroom at the
folks house banging out songs on a casio and an mBox, please. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seth Jackson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:23:49 -0500, Guitarboy
<Guitarboy@stringalong.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You obviously don't know a thing about copyright law. Read a book on
it. My knowledge is based on first hand experience with people who
actually did steal material I wrote and had it commercially released. I
had a lawyer. The record didn't make much money. We settled out of
court. For not very much money. BECAUSE IT WASN'T WORTH GOING TO COURT
OVER IT.
What are the damages? If the song made nothing, it is worth nothing
therefore the damages are treble (triple) nothing. how much is zero
times three? Ok lets say it made $10. How much is $10 times 3? $30. You
gonna file a $10,000 copyright infringement suit in federal court over
$30? You'd be a fool.
|
There are statutory damages that can be awarded independent of actual
damages:
(c) Statutory Damages. -
(1) Except as provided by clause (2) of this subsection, the copyright
owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to
recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory
damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to
any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or
for which any two or more infringers are liable jointly and severally,
in a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000 as the court
considers just. For the purposes of this subsection, all the parts of
a compilation or derivative work constitute one work.
(2) In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of
proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed
willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of
statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
Wilbur Slice wrote:
| Quote: | But anyway, that's the form PA, IIRC, and it's really for an album,
basically.
|
No, it is Form SR (Sound Recording). PA (Performance Art) is for an
individual composition. And one can use SR for a compilation.
--
ha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
Rick Hollett wrote:
| Quote: | I was told a "registered unopened letter" to oneself_would_stand up in a
court of law.
|
It will not.
| Quote: | Your statement referred to a "postmark"
|
Which determines the date a letter was posted.
--
ha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
Lynn wrote:
| Quote: | My idea is the ONLY thing that would stop this from happening!
|
Understanding how the law pertains to one's rights and then exercising
the provisions in one's favor is the only way to prevent this.
"You can't save everybody
"Everybody don't wanna be saved"
--
ha |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rick Ruskin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:02:13 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:
| Quote: | Wilbur Slice wrote:
But anyway, that's the form PA, IIRC, and it's really for an album,
basically.
No, it is Form SR (Sound Recording). PA (Performance Art) is for an
individual composition. And one can use SR for a compilation.
|
Form PA is for the authored work.
Form SR is for the recording of said work but can also be used for the
authored work(s) as well.
Both can be used for compiliations.
Read the instructions.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Flying Tadpole
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
|
|
Scott Dorsey wrote:
| Quote: | Gregor <jiff@nospam.com> wrote:
Michael J. Anthony wrote:
In article <43738d07$1_2@x-privat.org>, nospam@thanks.com says...
I write songs that are so bad that no one would steal them.
You got a lyric there. Run with it! ;-)
I write the songs that make my agent cry,
I write the songs that nobody will buy
I write the songs, I write the songs.
--scott
|
OK Scott, that's the chorus. Here's verse 1 to go in front:
I...
Write songs so bad that no-one'd steal them
No-one'd sing them
No-one'd deal them
Fans duck for cove--
Even my lover
Has left me cos all my songs just leave her reeling.
RHythm change then chorus.
Next!
--
Flying Tadpole
-------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpole
http://www.flyingtadpole.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in