| Author |
Message |
Jon J. Yeager
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
- Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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According to Billboard.com :
An Indiana songwriter's copyright infringement lawsuit against singer
Britney Spears over the song "Sometimes" has been dismissed because she was
able to show it wasn't copied.
"I cannot emphasize enough this was not a settlement but a dismissal," said
David R. Baum, an attorney for Spears and her co-defendants. No money will
change hands, he said.
U.S. District Judge John D. Tinder in Indianapolis last week dismissed the
lawsuit by Steve Wallace, who sued Spears, Sony/BMG Music Publishing Inc.,
and recording and publishing companies affiliated with the singer, claiming
he had written the song 15 years ago.
The complaint acknowledged Wallace did not formally copyright his song until
2003. A few weeks after writing it in 1990, he executed what's commonly
known as a "poor man's" copyright in which he placed his work in a sealed
envelope and obtained a postmark.
Meanwhile, Spears, obtained a U.S. copyright for "Sometimes" on Jan. 22,
1999. It appeared on her 1999 debut album, ... Baby One More Time and on
last year's Greatest Hits: My Prerogative.
---------------------------------------------
So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court. You
must obtain a U.S. copyright.
Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this procedure?
2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
Thanks.
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Lynn
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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It's so ironic to see this argument come up again only a couple of weeks
after almost everyone here dismissed my campaign.
My idea is the ONLY thing that would stop this from happening!
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/Copyrights
A full explanation can be found on my website www.wobblymusic.net. Skip down
to about 2/3 of the way through the article if you don't want to hear my
rantings.
:o)
--
Lynn
Wobbly Music
"Supporting the Mature Artist"
=============================
http://www.wobblymusic.net
Latest Release... "Friends" by John McKeon
Order your copy now and get 2 FREE bonus tracks!
http://www.johnmckeon.wobblymusic.net
"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:43738d07$1_2@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | According to Billboard.com :
An Indiana songwriter's copyright infringement lawsuit against singer
Britney Spears over the song "Sometimes" has been dismissed because she
was able to show it wasn't copied.
"I cannot emphasize enough this was not a settlement but a dismissal,"
said David R. Baum, an attorney for Spears and her co-defendants. No money
will change hands, he said.
U.S. District Judge John D. Tinder in Indianapolis last week dismissed the
lawsuit by Steve Wallace, who sued Spears, Sony/BMG Music Publishing Inc.,
and recording and publishing companies affiliated with the singer,
claiming he had written the song 15 years ago.
The complaint acknowledged Wallace did not formally copyright his song
until 2003. A few weeks after writing it in 1990, he executed what's
commonly known as a "poor man's" copyright in which he placed his work in
a sealed envelope and obtained a postmark.
Meanwhile, Spears, obtained a U.S. copyright for "Sometimes" on Jan. 22,
1999. It appeared on her 1999 debut album, ... Baby One More Time and on
last year's Greatest Hits: My Prerogative.
---------------------------------------------
So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
You must obtain a U.S. copyright.
Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this
procedure?
2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
Thanks.
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Malcolm Dew-Jones
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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Jon J. Yeager (nospam@thanks.com) wrote:
: So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
: envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
huh? I think you have that backwards.
That should be
"despite decades of being __WARNED__ that mailing yourself a
sealed envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper
protection in court."
: 1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this procedure?
google "copyright registration" will turn up both US and Canadian
copyright offices on line, which I am sure will have the exact details you
need. |
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Rick Hollett
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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I was told a "registered unopened letter" to oneself_would_stand up in a
court of law. Your statement referred to a "postmark"
Rick Hollett
"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:43738d07$1_2@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | According to Billboard.com :
An Indiana songwriter's copyright infringement lawsuit against singer
Britney Spears over the song "Sometimes" has been dismissed because she
was
able to show it wasn't copied.
"I cannot emphasize enough this was not a settlement but a dismissal,"
said
David R. Baum, an attorney for Spears and her co-defendants. No money will
change hands, he said.
U.S. District Judge John D. Tinder in Indianapolis last week dismissed the
lawsuit by Steve Wallace, who sued Spears, Sony/BMG Music Publishing Inc.,
and recording and publishing companies affiliated with the singer,
claiming
he had written the song 15 years ago.
The complaint acknowledged Wallace did not formally copyright his song
until
2003. A few weeks after writing it in 1990, he executed what's commonly
known as a "poor man's" copyright in which he placed his work in a sealed
envelope and obtained a postmark.
Meanwhile, Spears, obtained a U.S. copyright for "Sometimes" on Jan. 22,
1999. It appeared on her 1999 debut album, ... Baby One More Time and on
last year's Greatest Hits: My Prerogative.
---------------------------------------------
So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
You
must obtain a U.S. copyright.
Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this
procedure?
2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
Thanks.
|
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Michael R. Kesti
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:31 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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"Jon J. Yeager" wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
|
Yes, this myth does seem difficult to bust. The problem, of course, is that
it is far too easy to falsify. Would you find such "proof" compelling if you
were the judge in an infringment case?
| Quote: | You
must obtain a U.S. copyright.
|
No, one should register one's copyrights. Copyrights exist from the moment
copyrightable works exist is tangible form but it is difficult to prove that
one legally owns a copyright unless that copyright is registered.
| Quote: | Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this procedure?
|
http://www.copyright.gov/
| Quote: | 2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
|
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain |
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Bob Cap
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:32 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:43738d07$1_2@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | According to Billboard.com :
An Indiana songwriter's copyright infringement lawsuit against singer
Britney Spears over the song "Sometimes" has been dismissed because she
was able to show it wasn't copied.
"I cannot emphasize enough this was not a settlement but a dismissal,"
said David R. Baum, an attorney for Spears and her co-defendants. No money
will change hands, he said.
U.S. District Judge John D. Tinder in Indianapolis last week dismissed the
lawsuit by Steve Wallace, who sued Spears, Sony/BMG Music Publishing Inc.,
and recording and publishing companies affiliated with the singer,
claiming he had written the song 15 years ago.
The complaint acknowledged Wallace did not formally copyright his song
until 2003. A few weeks after writing it in 1990, he executed what's
commonly known as a "poor man's" copyright in which he placed his work in
a sealed envelope and obtained a postmark.
Meanwhile, Spears, obtained a U.S. copyright for "Sometimes" on Jan. 22,
1999. It appeared on her 1999 debut album, ... Baby One More Time and on
last year's Greatest Hits: My Prerogative.
---------------------------------------------
So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
You must obtain a U.S. copyright.
Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this
procedure?
2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
Thanks.
The easiest way to do this is to go to the US Copyright Office Web Site |
http://www.copyright.gov/
and check it out. I usually use the form PA. I have also been told you can
copyright a group of songs as a sound recording using form SR.
I'm not sure about Canada, but I would think they have a similar system.
Bob Cap |
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Paul Stamler
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:37 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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"Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:1YOdnRtViONhEu7eRVn-ig@rogers.com...
| Quote: | I was told a "registered unopened letter" to oneself_would_stand up in a
court of law. Your statement referred to a "postmark"
|
What stands up in a court of law is what is decided by the judge and/or
jury. The judge works from precedent ("stare decisis"), and there is now
precedent for saying that one particular strategy is not likely to be
successful. The prudent songwriter will register his/her copyright; in the
US you get Form PA from the U.S. Copyright Office
(http://www.copyright.gov/register/performing.html). There's a parallel
office in Canada; Google it.
Peace,
Paul |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:53 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:1YOdnRtViONhEu7eRVn-ig@rogers.com...
I was told a "registered unopened letter" to oneself_would_stand up in a
court of law. Your statement referred to a "postmark"
What stands up in a court of law is what is decided by the judge and/or
jury. The judge works from precedent ("stare decisis"), and there is now
precedent for saying that one particular strategy is not likely to be
successful.
|
Yes, but there has been precident for many years saying this. Poor
Man's Copyright just doesn't work.
What if you mailed yourself an empty unsealed envelope, and then years
later put the lyrics to the latest song into it, sealed it up, and took
the songwriter to court? The fact that it's possible to do this makes
the method no good for establishing actual dates of work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Malachi
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:11 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:43738d07$1_2@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | According to Billboard.com :
---------------------------------------------
So despite decades of being told otherwise, mailing yourself a sealed
envelope with a postmark does NOT constitute proper protection in court.
You must obtain a U.S. copyright.
Two questions :
1) Where does one go to do this? How can we get more info on this
procedure?
2) What equivalent option do Canadians have?
Thanks.
|
This question comes up periodically and never fails to draw all of the
lawyers/copyright authorities out of the woodwork. I won't repeat what
others have already explained very well above, but I will tell you that once
you send your submission to the US Library of Congress, be prepared to wait
the better part of a year before you get your official certificate back in
the mail.
But know that your copyright is considered registered from the moment it is
received by the LOC, not when they get around to sending you a snail mail
response. And you will be able to search your registration on line and
print confirmation of its receipt long before you get your certificate in
the mail.
Malachi |
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jaynews
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:16 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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Better "poor man's copyright" idea:
Print out a lead sheet (that includes chords, melody, and lyrics) along with
an affidavit of authorship and then signing all the pages in the presence of
a notary public and having the notary stamp all pages.
It would be hard for anyone to successfully steal your song if you did this.
(Even if they LATER registered with the copyright office)
J. |
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Michael R. Kesti
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:17 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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jaynews wrote:
| Quote: | Better "poor man's copyright" idea:
Print out a lead sheet (that includes chords, melody, and lyrics) along with
an affidavit of authorship and then signing all the pages in the presence of
a notary public and having the notary stamp all pages.
It would be hard for anyone to successfully steal your song if you did this.
(Even if they LATER registered with the copyright office)
|
Why not just properly register your copyright?
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain |
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Wilbur Slice
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:29 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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|
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:17:20 -0800, "Michael R. Kesti"
<mrkesti@nospam.net> wrote:
| Quote: | jaynews wrote:
Better "poor man's copyright" idea:
Print out a lead sheet (that includes chords, melody, and lyrics) along with
an affidavit of authorship and then signing all the pages in the presence of
a notary public and having the notary stamp all pages.
It would be hard for anyone to successfully steal your song if you did this.
(Even if they LATER registered with the copyright office)
Why not just properly register your copyright?
|
That's just what they'd be EXPECTING us to do.... |
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Michael R. Kesti
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:36 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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Wilbur Slice wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:17:20 -0800, "Michael R. Kesti"
mrkesti@nospam.net> wrote:
Why not just properly register your copyright?
That's just what they'd be EXPECTING us to do....
|
OK, but which "they" is that and why do their expectations matter?
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain |
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Jon J. Yeager
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:52 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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|
"Wilbur Slice" <wilbur@wilburslice.com> wrote in message
news:cdb7n19s3ic767rf86pbc8stmccm0ol40q@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:17:20 -0800, "Michael R. Kesti"
mrkesti@nospam.net> wrote:
jaynews wrote:
Better "poor man's copyright" idea:
Print out a lead sheet (that includes chords, melody, and lyrics) along
with
an affidavit of authorship and then signing all the pages in the presence
of
a notary public and having the notary stamp all pages.
It would be hard for anyone to successfully steal your song if you did
this.
(Even if they LATER registered with the copyright office)
Why not just properly register your copyright?
That's just what they'd be EXPECTING us to do....
|
LOL! |
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Jon J. Yeager
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:03 am Post subject:
Re: - Copyrighting your songs... best way? |
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|
"Malachi" <malachiLOSETHISTOREPLY@trentes.com> wrote in message
news:9XMcf.6204$Y61.1650@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
This question comes up periodically and never fails to draw all of the
lawyers/copyright authorities out of the woodwork. I won't repeat what
others have already explained very well above, but I will tell you that
once you send your submission to the US Library of Congress, be prepared
to wait the better part of a year before you get your official certificate
back in the mail.
But know that your copyright is considered registered from the moment it
is received by the LOC, not when they get around to sending you a snail
mail response. And you will be able to search your registration on line
and print confirmation of its receipt long before you get your certificate
in the mail.
|
Can Canadians submit materials to the US Library of Congress, and if so,
what territories are covered in the protection this way? US only? US and
Canada? Or Universe?
Thanks. |
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