| Author |
Message |
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:55 am Post subject:
Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budget |
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|
Hey guys, I tried to do some searches, but after just a few minutes
with no easy answers I decided to try my luck at bothering you myself.
Main question - My church is looking for a subwoofer to add on to our
main speakers for low-end support. As for our mains, at the moment
we're using a pair of Mackie passive 12"ers i think they're CR300's or
something to that effect, but they are really our monitor as we ahve a
pair of Turbosound main's that are being serviced after being blown
out. I do not know which model the Turbosounds are because I joined
the church recently, after they were sent out, I'll ask around if you
guys really need that.
So I've been asked to find out what i can about subwoofers we can go
for. They're trying to keep it around $1200.
My only personal experience is with the Mackie Active subs. I've used
a couple of different smaller ones that looked like 12"ers and 15"ers,
as well as an 18"er Mackie active. I thought that they worked pretty
well.
We do not own our own church building. We use a public school
auditorium that we rent. It seats approx. 250-300 (i'm guessing here),
high cielings, no carpet, sound gets pretty lost easily.
We'll be mainly looking for things like kick-drum projection as well as
bass guitar support. We dont really do any techno-y sort of music, but
we do play some rather loud rock-type modern church music. (drums, bass
guitar, electric guitar, 2 acoustics, synth, violin, 3 vocals) (I'm
the bassist btw, and yes i play a 5 string, but i dont really need that
30hz fundamental, i figure a roll-off around 50hz would still be fine
if we have to do that, kick drum is main concern but the louder and
lower the better)
I'm sure that our budget sounds really low for this type of setting for
you guys, but we're trying to make do with what he have.
Our default looks to be the Mackie active 18" sub. Do you guys have
any other suggestions in that price range that might be clearly a
better choice? If it has wheels, then its portable enough. We store
our equipment in a storage room in the school, no stairs, and size/bulk
doesnt look to be much of a factor. also have dolly as well. Active
would be nice for the sake of the ease of cross-over cabling, but
passive is fine as long as an amp is factored into the budget.
I've looked at the EAW, Turbosound, JBL and Mackie websites, and have
already started to feel a bit overwhelmed, so I'm hoping to come up
with just a couple of alternatives to the Mackie SWA1801 to throw at
the decision makers.
Thanks for any input.
-john
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Rupert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:43 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
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johnnykim@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hey guys, I tried to do some searches, but after just a few minutes
with no easy answers I decided to try my luck at bothering you myself.
Main question - My church is looking for a subwoofer to add on to our
main speakers for low-end support. As for our mains, at the moment
we're using a pair of Mackie passive 12"ers i think they're CR300's or
something to that effect, but they are really our monitor as we ahve a
pair of Turbosound main's that are being serviced after being blown
out. I do not know which model the Turbosounds are because I joined
the church recently, after they were sent out, I'll ask around if you
guys really need that.
So I've been asked to find out what i can about subwoofers we can go
for. They're trying to keep it around $1200.
My only personal experience is with the Mackie Active subs. I've used
a couple of different smaller ones that looked like 12"ers and 15"ers,
as well as an 18"er Mackie active. I thought that they worked pretty
well.
We do not own our own church building. We use a public school
auditorium that we rent. It seats approx. 250-300 (i'm guessing here),
high cielings, no carpet, sound gets pretty lost easily.
We'll be mainly looking for things like kick-drum projection as well as
bass guitar support. We dont really do any techno-y sort of music, but
we do play some rather loud rock-type modern church music. (drums, bass
guitar, electric guitar, 2 acoustics, synth, violin, 3 vocals) (I'm
the bassist btw, and yes i play a 5 string, but i dont really need that
30hz fundamental, i figure a roll-off around 50hz would still be fine
if we have to do that, kick drum is main concern but the louder and
lower the better)
I'm sure that our budget sounds really low for this type of setting for
you guys, but we're trying to make do with what he have.
Our default looks to be the Mackie active 18" sub. Do you guys have
any other suggestions in that price range that might be clearly a
better choice? If it has wheels, then its portable enough. We store
our equipment in a storage room in the school, no stairs, and size/bulk
doesnt look to be much of a factor. also have dolly as well. Active
would be nice for the sake of the ease of cross-over cabling, but
passive is fine as long as an amp is factored into the budget.
I've looked at the EAW, Turbosound, JBL and Mackie websites, and have
already started to feel a bit overwhelmed, so I'm hoping to come up
with just a couple of alternatives to the Mackie SWA1801 to throw at
the decision makers.
Thanks for any input.
-john
|
You might want to take a look at the Yorkville line, the LS800P in
particular. Better bang for the buck then Mackie for under $1000. And
from reports on the 1801 on Mackie's own website, it holds up much
better too. Ideally, you really should be using 2 subs minimum for a
crowd that size. I think one of any model sub in that price range is
not going to be adequate for rock music reinforcement.
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=213
As for blowing up your Turbo tops, I suspect they're getting toasted
because they're not enough box for the application, and/or proper
processing & limiting is not in place to protect them.
Rupert |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:53 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
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Rupert wrote:
| Quote: | As for blowing up your Turbo tops, I suspect they're getting toasted
because they're not enough box for the application, and/or proper
processing & limiting is not in place to protect them.
|
Probably under-amped or incorrectly set up. Turbo's boxes are very reliable
and robust.
As for the subs - Turbo TXD215, double 15, sounds fine, costs little, small,
optional wheels. Drive from any spare 1k/side amp you've got lying around.
--
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving / And
revolving at 900 miles an hour / That's orbiting at 19 miles a second,
so it's reckoned, / A sun that is the source of all our power. / The
sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see, / Are moving at a
million miles a day / In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour,
/ Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
Hey everybody,
Thanks for the great help. It looks like I'll be vouching for the
Yorkville LS800P, as it seems to be a better performing alternative to
the Mackie 1801. Now I have to figure out what to say about the
crossover. I'm not quite sure what our situation is with our Aux
Sends, but I'm pretty sure they're all taken up by monitor mixes, I'll
have to look into that.
Any recommendations on crossover units? hehe sorry, It would be nice to
just suggest a comprehensive solution at one time.
We're also in Manhattan, so in case you guys recommend any particular
Yorkville dealer, I'd be willing to check them out.
Thanks again guys.
-john |
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Saxology
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
"michael gaster" <michael@liveperformancesolutions.com> wrote in message
news:ULacf.9163$Dk.5480@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: | johnnykim@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131483325.175199.241160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hey guys, I tried to do some searches, but after just a few minutes
with no easy answers I decided to try my luck at bothering you myself.
Main question - My church is looking for a subwoofer to add on to our
main speakers for low-end support. As for our mains, at the moment
we're using a pair of Mackie passive 12"ers i think they're CR300's or
something to that effect, but they are really our monitor as we ahve a
pair of Turbosound main's that are being serviced after being blown
out. I do not know which model the Turbosounds are because I joined
the church recently, after they were sent out, I'll ask around if you
guys really need that.
So I've been asked to find out what i can about subwoofers we can go
for. They're trying to keep it around $1200.
My only personal experience is with the Mackie Active subs. I've used
a couple of different smaller ones that looked like 12"ers and 15"ers,
as well as an 18"er Mackie active. I thought that they worked pretty
well.
We do not own our own church building. We use a public school
auditorium that we rent. It seats approx. 250-300 (i'm guessing here),
high cielings, no carpet, sound gets pretty lost easily.
We'll be mainly looking for things like kick-drum projection as well as
bass guitar support. We dont really do any techno-y sort of music, but
we do play some rather loud rock-type modern church music. (drums, bass
guitar, electric guitar, 2 acoustics, synth, violin, 3 vocals) (I'm
the bassist btw, and yes i play a 5 string, but i dont really need that
30hz fundamental, i figure a roll-off around 50hz would still be fine
if we have to do that, kick drum is main concern but the louder and
lower the better)
I'm sure that our budget sounds really low for this type of setting for
you guys, but we're trying to make do with what he have.
Our default looks to be the Mackie active 18" sub. Do you guys have
any other suggestions in that price range that might be clearly a
better choice? If it has wheels, then its portable enough. We store
our equipment in a storage room in the school, no stairs, and size/bulk
doesnt look to be much of a factor. also have dolly as well. Active
would be nice for the sake of the ease of cross-over cabling, but
passive is fine as long as an amp is factored into the budget.
I've looked at the EAW, Turbosound, JBL and Mackie websites, and have
already started to feel a bit overwhelmed, so I'm hoping to come up
with just a couple of alternatives to the Mackie SWA1801 to throw at
the decision makers.
Thanks for any input.
-john
John,
this might be a good idea:
http://www.rh.com/loudspeakers/series/current/cf-cfx/cf-cfx-18s.html
--
Michael Gaster
Live Performance Solutions Inc.
|
200watt amp on the powered version, 900watts for the unpowered? what gives
there?
-Sax |
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mcsteve
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
"Saxology" wrote:
I wondered about that, also. 200w seems pretty 'light', for
any 18" driver worth consideration.
--
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Steve M
(remove "x" from email addy, to contact directly) |
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michael gaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
<johnnykim@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131483325.175199.241160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hey guys, I tried to do some searches, but after just a few minutes
with no easy answers I decided to try my luck at bothering you myself.
Main question - My church is looking for a subwoofer to add on to our
main speakers for low-end support. As for our mains, at the moment
we're using a pair of Mackie passive 12"ers i think they're CR300's or
something to that effect, but they are really our monitor as we ahve a
pair of Turbosound main's that are being serviced after being blown
out. I do not know which model the Turbosounds are because I joined
the church recently, after they were sent out, I'll ask around if you
guys really need that.
So I've been asked to find out what i can about subwoofers we can go
for. They're trying to keep it around $1200.
My only personal experience is with the Mackie Active subs. I've used
a couple of different smaller ones that looked like 12"ers and 15"ers,
as well as an 18"er Mackie active. I thought that they worked pretty
well.
We do not own our own church building. We use a public school
auditorium that we rent. It seats approx. 250-300 (i'm guessing here),
high cielings, no carpet, sound gets pretty lost easily.
We'll be mainly looking for things like kick-drum projection as well as
bass guitar support. We dont really do any techno-y sort of music, but
we do play some rather loud rock-type modern church music. (drums, bass
guitar, electric guitar, 2 acoustics, synth, violin, 3 vocals) (I'm
the bassist btw, and yes i play a 5 string, but i dont really need that
30hz fundamental, i figure a roll-off around 50hz would still be fine
if we have to do that, kick drum is main concern but the louder and
lower the better)
I'm sure that our budget sounds really low for this type of setting for
you guys, but we're trying to make do with what he have.
Our default looks to be the Mackie active 18" sub. Do you guys have
any other suggestions in that price range that might be clearly a
better choice? If it has wheels, then its portable enough. We store
our equipment in a storage room in the school, no stairs, and size/bulk
doesnt look to be much of a factor. also have dolly as well. Active
would be nice for the sake of the ease of cross-over cabling, but
passive is fine as long as an amp is factored into the budget.
I've looked at the EAW, Turbosound, JBL and Mackie websites, and have
already started to feel a bit overwhelmed, so I'm hoping to come up
with just a couple of alternatives to the Mackie SWA1801 to throw at
the decision makers.
Thanks for any input.
-john
|
John,
this might be a good idea:
http://www.rh.com/loudspeakers/series/current/cf-cfx/cf-cfx-18s.html
--
Michael Gaster
Live Performance Solutions Inc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rob Beech
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
"mcsteve" <mcstevex1350@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eoecf.4780$SV1.1337@trndny01...
| Quote: | "Saxology" wrote:
"michael gaster" wrote:
this might be a good idea:
http://www.rh.com/loudspeakers/series/current/cf-cfx/cf-cfx-18s.html
--
200watt amp on the powered version, 900watts for the unpowered? what
gives there?
I wondered about that, also. 200w seems pretty 'light', for
any 18" driver worth consideration.
--
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Steve M
(remove "x" from email addy, to contact directly)
C4 Sub? ServoDrive Contrabass? |
I know i know, i was only joking.
I actually replied to comment that i also found it rather odd.
Normally in powered speakers you find the amplifier will be roughly rms
level (which is often not as much as you would like) Although increasingly
we're seeing powered cabs with bigger amps now. I would assume this is down
to technology of making amps lighter weight, added to them ruinning cooler
without the need for forced air cooling.
Rob |
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Adair Winter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
<johnnykim@gmail.com> wrote in message
| Quote: |
Any recommendations on crossover units? hehe sorry, It would be nice to
just suggest a comprehensive solution at one time.
|
Behringer DCX2496
Adair |
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michael gaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:22 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
"Rob Beech" <Mail@robbeech.com> wrote in message
news:J7mcf.10611$f_5.5283@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: |
"mcsteve" <mcstevex1350@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eoecf.4780$SV1.1337@trndny01...
"Saxology" wrote:
"michael gaster" wrote:
this might be a good idea:
http://www.rh.com/loudspeakers/series/current/cf-cfx/cf-cfx-18s.html
--
200watt amp on the powered version, 900watts for the unpowered? what
gives there?
I wondered about that, also. 200w seems pretty 'light', for
any 18" driver worth consideration.
--
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Steve M
(remove "x" from email addy, to contact directly)
C4 Sub? ServoDrive Contrabass?
I know i know, i was only joking.
I actually replied to comment that i also found it rather odd.
Normally in powered speakers you find the amplifier will be roughly rms
level (which is often not as much as you would like) Although increasingly
we're seeing powered cabs with bigger amps now. I would assume this is
down to technology of making amps lighter weight, added to them ruinning
cooler without the need for forced air cooling.
Rob
|
this is where I have found that the double the RMS power really doesnt do
all that much other than get you the ability to reach mechnical distortion,
however I will agree that 200w for a 900w cone might be a little light, but
I have had several discussions with various engineers including the
engineers at RH about powering speakers (primarily subs) and the conclusion
is that although the speaker can absorb and disapate the energy the
distortion level is now out of the electrical realm and placed on the
transducer (mechnical distortion) and with an 18" driver that point seems a
bit lower than with other speakers as most of us know... but lets look at
this speaker and the ratings:
the CF/X18 has a rating of 100dB 1w/1M; now apply 200w of power the output
of that unit would stand at 123dB now applying 400w would get you up to 126
and sure that is better but that would be about where your limit is before
you start getting in to running the edge of excursion limits and creating
the ability to acheive mechnical distortion I would say this is where Meyer
first got the idea and RH now uses the "burst power" ratings which is
essentially running program limits based on driving RMS ratings (I think I
said that right) now in my case my typical setup is using 4ea Renkus Heinz
DRS18-1b (un powered) driven by a single Lab Gruppen fP3400 each cabinet is
rated at 1400w however I am only powering them at 750w per each and have all
of the sub bass I could want there is (virtually) no distortion its thick
and I can drive the signal hard with out worries of the mechenical limits
being reached 100% of the listeners that comment on the sub setup are all
amazed at how solid the sub bass sounds and are all amazed that its only
3000w across 4 drivers...
the trick I have found is that its not just about squeezing out every dB of
sound out of a speaker by giving it every watt of power available but
powering within the mechnical range and feeding a solid signal to the
amplifier(s)
OBTW the CF18 also comes unpowered juice it up with our own amp which unless
you are using Lab Gruppen Amps will cost less.
Michael
--
Michael Gaster
Live Performance Solutions Inc. |
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michael gaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:24 am Post subject:
Re: Hi, Looking for Live-Sound Subwoofer guidance on a budge |
|
|
<johnnykim@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131503204.687499.78880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hey everybody,
Thanks for the great help. It looks like I'll be vouching for the
Yorkville LS800P, as it seems to be a better performing alternative to
the Mackie 1801. Now I have to figure out what to say about the
crossover. I'm not quite sure what our situation is with our Aux
Sends, but I'm pretty sure they're all taken up by monitor mixes, I'll
have to look into that.
Any recommendations on crossover units? hehe sorry, It would be nice to
just suggest a comprehensive solution at one time.
We're also in Manhattan, so in case you guys recommend any particular
Yorkville dealer, I'd be willing to check them out.
Thanks again guys.
-john
|
I have a KT9824 I want to part with!
it is (was) like ~$1250.00 new it is on decent condition and I would do it
for $450.00 I have the manual, perhaps the box (I'd have to check)
--
Michael Gaster
Live Performance Solutions Inc. |
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