Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors?
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Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors?

 
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W (winhag)
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0511/05110701cypress9mp.asp

Folks,

This Cypress sensor seems to have done away with micro-lenses due to
the large inherent light gathering area of the pixels. Seems to me
getting anything out of the optical path is a good thing (esp. with the
issues regarding angle of incidence of light 'rays' on the
micro-lenses). Have these folks made a breakthrough or are they
'blowing smoke' or somewhere in between?

Opinions?


W

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Larry Lynch
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

In order to make a color photo it will still need color filters placed
over the sensor, and it might get microlenses at that time from the
camera maker.
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Måns Rullgård
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

Some info on noise levels would be interesting, or they might as well
be blowing smoke in front of the sensors.

--
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com
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luscious lips
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

it's a shame that no other manufacturers adopted it other than sigma.
(well, i guess we can cross polariod's x530 out...)so much potential,
it seemed to have. so little implementation, it saw. had foeveon
managed to increased the 'real' resolution to somewhere around 6 mpix
level, it'd have been a force to be reckoned with. a shame...

but then, the technology itself showed a lot of potential, so perhaps
some other sensor manufacturer buy them out and improve the technology?
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Darrell
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

Quote:
what's going on with foveon?

ssshhhhhhh, you wake GP ;)

Foveon seems to be a dead-end at this time. There hasn't been an
announcement form either Sigma or Foveon since October 2003 when they
announced the SD10, which had the same sensor as the February 2002 SD9.
Sigma merely changed their math to claim 10.2 megapixels from a 3.34 mp
sensor.
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Darrell
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

This is the sensor Kodak was using in the DSC-14 series cameras...
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luscious lips
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

what's going on with foveon?
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Father Kodak
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

I just checked out the Foveon website. Not good. Not quite walking
dead, but not much of a pulse either. Without a major customer win,
they are probably doomed. At some point, the company enters a death
spiral: No new customers because of their uncertain future, and no
future without some new, hopefully high volume, customers.

Only real hope is that the owners (basically, the investors) sell off
the company in pieces and another company gets rights to the sensor.

Here are the warning signs:

* The customer list is extremely sparse. No "lighthouse" or
top-tier customers, e.g. Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Canon, etc.

* No press releases. None. What's the matter with these guys?
Don't they have anything to announce to the world? I googled "press
release Foveon" and came up with the X3 announcement June, 2004.
Nothing since? What kind of VP of Marketing do they have?

* Job listings? Only a few in engineering, and there is no
telling if these listings are "real" or if they are on the web site so
their customers think they are expanding.

* No mention of investors on the web site. That is a very
unusual situation. Again, Google turned up the following. So they do
have investors.

National Semiconductor Inc., Synaptics Inc., New Enterprise Associates
and Franklin Templeton Investments.

(As a side comment, their web site needs work.)
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Gregory Blank
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

According to this article part of your assertion is not completely
accurate.

http://www.dalsa.com/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.asp
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
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Dave Martindale
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: Is this the way of 'the future' in sensors? Reply with quote

Alfred Molon <alfred_molonREMOVE@yahoo.com> writes:

Quote:
What I don't understand is when they write that in CMOS sensors each
pixel has its own A/D converter. How can they put one 12 or 14 bits A/D
converter into each pixel ? Imagine doing that for a 16MP CMOS sensor -
you'd need to have 16 million A/D converters on the chip. How can this
be ?

I think they meant that there is some *analog* signal processing at each
pixel - at least some amplification, and possibly additional stuff like
dark reference subtraction or non-linear compression of dynamic range.

In comparison, a CCD shifts small charges (a few thousands or tens of
thousands of electrons) around from cell to cell, amplifying the charge
only when it reaches an amplifier at the corner of the chip.

Dave
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