| Author |
Message |
David Levy
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Jeff Rife wrote:
| Quote: | If something is delivered to the home via a mode other than
satellite, it isn't "DirecTV programming."
You may know that, and I may know that, but with the
integration of the local digital channels on the receiver,
most users won't know that.
What relevance does this have to my statement that the HR10-250
no longer is capable of receiving all of DirecTV's programming?
Because it's wrong?
|
You acknowledged the accuracy of my statement that "if something is
delivered to the home via a mode other than satellite, it isn't
'DirecTV programming.'" Have you changed your mind?
| Quote: | DirecTV isn't sending anything new out that the HR10-250 cannot
receive, although it might receive it in a slightly different way.
|
Again, if something is received OTA (not an option for everyone) it is
*not* DirecTV's programming.
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Jeff Rife
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:23 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Randy S. (rswitt@NOSPAM.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
| Quote: | Not to take sides, but I have to cry foul on that one. Public opinion
polls use random sampling to arrive at statistically significant
samples.
|
....that often aren't, but that's not important.
| Quote: | It's not always fair to say that public opinion polls
are truly statistically random (in fact some are saying that the growing
spread of cell phones, which are not currently polled, among younger
people is skewing the polling samples), but they take a significant
effort for them to approach randomness.
|
In this case, though you don't *want* randomness. You want people who have
HR10-250 units, and that (by itself) is a huge restriction that makes
randomness quite unlikely. So, generating "randomness" within the
population of well-off, early adopters of technology is not going to
happen.
Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas. Even the guy arguing against me admitted my point
that most people with the HR10-250 have HD networks. Not all do this via
OTA, but the point is that those networks *are* a huge driving force,
and if you can't get them via satellite, you go OTA. And, many who do
have some via satellite *still* have OTA antennas.
| Quote: | Sorry, misuse of statistics to misrepresent a conclusion (intentional or
not) is a pet-peeve of mine.
|
The company I work for is a wholly owned subsidiary of a polling company
(http://opinionresearch.com/), so I understand, and that's why I didn't
misuse them.
--
Jeff Rife | "I feel an intense ambivalence, some of which
| doesn't border entirely on the negative."
|
| -- Ned Dorsey, "Ned and Stacey" |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:12 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Jeff Rife wrote:
| Quote: | Randy S. (rswitt@NOSPAM.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Not to take sides, but I have to cry foul on that one. Public opinion
polls use random sampling to arrive at statistically significant
samples.
...that often aren't, but that's not important.
|
Well, I think I admitted that in the next paragraph,
| Quote: |
It's not always fair to say that public opinion polls
are truly statistically random (in fact some are saying that the growing
spread of cell phones, which are not currently polled, among younger
people is skewing the polling samples), but they take a significant
effort for them to approach randomness.
In this case, though you don't *want* randomness. You want people who have
HR10-250 units, and that (by itself) is a huge restriction that makes
randomness quite unlikely. So, generating "randomness" within the
population of well-off, early adopters of technology is not going to
happen.
|
Well, it's a restriction, but you can still sample randomly within the
subset. I think what you're asserting is that the forum members *are*
representative of the overall sample. I'm not certain that's true, but
it's possible. It is true that since the population size is relatively
small, it's much more likely to be representative.
| Quote: |
Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas. Even the guy arguing against me admitted my point
that most people with the HR10-250 have HD networks. Not all do this via
OTA, but the point is that those networks *are* a huge driving force,
and if you can't get them via satellite, you go OTA. And, many who do
have some via satellite *still* have OTA antennas.
Sorry, misuse of statistics to misrepresent a conclusion (intentional or
not) is a pet-peeve of mine.
The company I work for is a wholly owned subsidiary of a polling company
(http://opinionresearch.com/), so I understand, and that's why I didn't
misuse them.
|
I'll agree that HR10-250 users are much more likely to have the
characteristics of your average forum member. We can't be certain that
it's true, but it's a reasonable hypothesis.
Randy S. |
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David Levy
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:40 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Jeff Rife wrote:
| Quote: | In this case, though you don't *want* randomness.
|
Of course we do; we want a random sampling of HR10-250 owners.
| Quote: | You want people who have HR10-250 units,
|
Yes, which is why a hypothetical survey would be restricted to members
of this group. It would not, however, be restricted to message board
posters (unless your claim were limited to this specific subset).
| Quote: | and that (by itself) is a huge restriction that makes randomness quite
unlikely. So, generating "randomness" within the population of
well-off, early adopters of technology is not going to happen.
|
I agree that it would be impossible for us to conduct such a survey.
That's why it's unreasonable to draw the type of conclusion in
question.
| Quote: | Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas.
|
Not every HR10-250 owner is a well-off early adopter. I purchased
mine in July of this year for $350 + sales tax.
And no, it isn't reasonable to assume that a vast majority of early
adopters are similar to the tiny, non-random minority whose comments
you've cited.
| Quote: | Even the guy arguing against me admitted my point that most people with
the HR10-250 have HD networks.
|
No, I didn't. That seems likely to me, but I don't know this for
certain.
| Quote: | Not all do this via OTA, but the point is that those networks *are* a
huge driving force, and if you can't get them via satellite, you go OTA.
|
Many DirecTV subscribers are literally incapable of receiving HD
network feeds via either method. Such individuals have less incentive
to purchase HD-capable DirecTV receivers, but that doesn't mean that
none do. Some people watch very little broadcast programming, but
might still be interested in DirecTV's national HD lineup. I don't
know what percentage of HR10-250 owners this describes, because I lack
access to pertinent data. |
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Jack Zwick
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:04 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
In article <5dn9n1l1llr8esgpsmnr36anc40jbloncm@4ax.com>,
David Levy <d_levy@lifeisunfair.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Jeff Rife wrote:
In this case, though you don't *want* randomness.
Of course we do; we want a random sampling of HR10-250 owners.
You want people who have HR10-250 units,
Yes, which is why a hypothetical survey would be restricted to members
of this group. It would not, however, be restricted to message board
posters (unless your claim were limited to this specific subset).
and that (by itself) is a huge restriction that makes randomness quite
unlikely. So, generating "randomness" within the population of
well-off, early adopters of technology is not going to happen.
I agree that it would be impossible for us to conduct such a survey.
That's why it's unreasonable to draw the type of conclusion in
question.
Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas.
Not every HR10-250 owner is a well-off early adopter. I purchased
mine in July of this year for $350 + sales tax.
|
I got mine for $299, with a $200 credit to account and $100 rebate that
ended up after 8 weeks being a $100 credit to my account. Sold my HDVR2
and Standalone HD tuner for over $400 on ebay, so I think I came out
ahead. |
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David Levy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:27 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Jack Zwick wrote:
| Quote: | Not every HR10-250 owner is a well-off early adopter. I purchased
mine in July of this year for $350 + sales tax.
I got mine for $299, with a $200 credit to account and $100 rebate
that ended up after 8 weeks being a $100 credit to my account.
|
I received a similar deal. I was given a $250 account credit, six
months of free Showtime ($66 discount), six months of HBO for $2 per
month ($48 discount) and six months of the HD package for $5.99 per
month ($30 discount). I already subscribed to Showtime and HBO (and
intended to subscribe to the HD package), so the discounts amounted to
$144 in actual savings. Combined with the $250 credit, DirecTV
provided $394 worth of incentives for purchasing a DVR that cost me
$371 (including sales tax) at Best Buy.
| Quote: | Sold my HDVR2 and Standalone HD tuner for over $400 on ebay, so I
think I came out ahead.
|
This is my first HD receiver. It replaced an HDVR2, but I decided to
retain it as a spare (in case one of my family's other HDVR2s dies). |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:44 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
David Levy (d_levy@lifeisunfair.net) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
| Quote: | Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas.
Not every HR10-250 owner is a well-off early adopter. I purchased
mine in July of this year for $350 + sales tax.
|
So, you didn't spend another dime to watch HDTV? Just $350? I didn't think
so.
Even if the money isn't much to you, you are *still* an early adopter and
it HDTV is *still* only for the well-off. There are 100M (or more) people
in the US that live for an entire month on less than $1000, so $350 for an
HR10-250 plus $1000 (or more) for an HDTV is a *lot* of money.
--
Jeff Rife | Sam: How's life treatin' you, Norm?
|
| Norm: Well, Sammy, it's not...so I sure
| hope you are. |
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David Levy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
Jeff Rife wrote:
| Quote: | So, you didn't spend another dime to watch HDTV? Just $350?
|
As I indicated in my reply to Jack Zwick, DirecTV provided $394 worth
of incentives for buying the DVR. Factoring that, I paid -$23 for the
unit.
And I'm not actually watching HDTV; I don't own an HD monitor.
| Quote: | Even if the money isn't much to you,
|
I don't think of $350 as chump change. If not for the aforementioned
incentives, I wouldn't have made the purchase.
| Quote: | you are *still* an early adopter and it HDTV is *still* only for the
well-off. There are 100M (or more) people in the US that live for
an entire month on less than $1000,
|
Yes, and there are people in the US that live in cardboard boxes.
Everything's relative, and I was comparing myself to the people that
spent $700 - $1000 for the HR10-250. I'm an early adopter of HD
equipment in general, but not an early adopter of the HR10-250 (given
the fact that it soon will be discontinued and replaced).
| Quote: | so $350 for an HR10-250 plus $1000 (or more) for an HDTV is a *lot*
of money.
|
I never claimed to have purchased an HD monitor. If I were to buy
one, it would cost closer to $450. I'm reluctant to spend even that
much, especially when the downconverted HD content already looks so
good on my SD monitor. |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
David Levy (d_levy@lifeisunfair.net) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
| Quote: | As I indicated in my reply to Jack Zwick, DirecTV provided $394 worth
of incentives for buying the DVR. Factoring that, I paid -$23 for the
unit.
|
That is not what the *average* person pays for this unit, and you know
it. I paid $850 with no DirecTV credit, no free programming, etc., and
I know others paid more.
| Quote: | so $350 for an HR10-250 plus $1000 (or more) for an HDTV is a *lot*
of money.
I never claimed to have purchased an HD monitor. If I were to buy
one, it would cost closer to $450.
|
Despite the fact that prices have come down a lot, $450 won't buy you a
monitor that can display HD. It might buy you one that can accept HD signals
as inputs, but they won't display as HD.
--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/GiantWaterBowl.jpg |
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David Levy
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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Jeff Rife wrote:
| Quote: | As I indicated in my reply to Jack Zwick, DirecTV provided $394
worth of incentives for buying the DVR. Factoring that, I paid
-$23 for the unit.
That is not what the *average* person pays for this unit, and you
know it.
|
You're attacking a straw man, and you know it.
| Quote: | I paid $850 with no DirecTV credit, no free programming, etc.,
and I know others paid more.
|
As I stated (in part of my post that you snipped), "I was comparing
myself to the people that spent $700 - $1000 for the HR10-250."
Do you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing?
| Quote: | Despite the fact that prices have come down a lot, $450 won't buy
you a monitor that can display HD. It might buy you one that can
accept HD signals as inputs, but they won't display as HD.
|
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=product&id=1099396991085 |
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GMAN
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
In article <MPG.1ddedadc68347f7798a10a@news.nabs.net>, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
| Quote: | David Levy (d_levy@lifeisunfair.net) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Which was my point. Because these people are early adopters, they did
so with similar ideas.
Not every HR10-250 owner is a well-off early adopter. I purchased
mine in July of this year for $350 + sales tax.
So, you didn't spend another dime to watch HDTV? Just $350? I didn't think
so.
Even if the money isn't much to you, you are *still* an early adopter and
it HDTV is *still* only for the well-off. There are 100M (or more) people
in the US that live for an entire month on less than $1000, so $350 for an
HR10-250 plus $1000 (or more) for an HDTV is a *lot* of money.
You finance it over time. Unless you are rich ,or have money saved up , no one |
goes out and pays $1350 cash for something all the time. Make monthly payments
on it! |
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Chris Adams
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
Once upon a time, GMAN <glenzabr@xmission.com> said:
| Quote: | You finance it over time. Unless you are rich ,or have money saved up , no one
goes out and pays $1350 cash for something all the time. Make monthly payments
on it!
|
It is a lot smarter to save up and pay cash (or use a credit card but
pay it off every month). You earn a little interest while saving and
don't have to pay finance charges. Also, if you don't spend what you
don't have, you don't get over your head into debt.
It does take some self control though.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. |
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SAC 441
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
Chris Adams stated:
----"It is a lot smarter to save up and pay cash
(or use a credit card or pay it off every month).
You earn a little interest while saving and don't
have to pay finance charges.Also, if you don't spend what you don't
have, you won't get over your head into debt.
It does take some self control though."----
Reply:
I have found that a credit card is the POOREST way to finance
transactions over time.
Invariably,it is TOO EASY to lose track of a payment or to "gloss over"
and let it slide.Not only will you incur finance charges,but at the
usual "bump up" in rates (also called 'Universal
Default' by credit management companies) your interest rate APR will
usually take a 2-3% jump.
In addition at the "customary" rates of MOST (not all) CC's
13%-22.5%,the unpaid balances
COMPOUND *FAST*.
A lot better way to finance purchases if you do not have a lump sum
cash outlay,would be to go to a bank or credit union (preferably a
credit union) and negotiate a FIXED BALANCE,
FIXED INTEREST rate loan.That way,the monthly payments are a known
factor and there will be no finance charges to worry about
whatsoever.Plus,with most loans,you get a loan payment document notice
in the mail telling you it is due,unlike a statement from a bank with a
CC that does not fully address all the hidden charges.
A lot of people cannot or will not practice the "self-discipline" that
you espouse.Better to be safe than sorry. |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:07 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
On 2005-11-12, SAC 441 <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Chris Adams stated:
It does take some self control though."----
Reply:
I have found that a credit card is the POOREST way to finance
transactions over time.
A lot of people cannot or will not practice the "self-discipline" that
you espouse.Better to be safe than sorry.
|
If people have so much trouble with money, perhaps they shouldn't be
buying extra crap they don't need. Follow the principle of spending less
than you earn. By doing this, you don't have to worry about loans or
credit card bills.
--
This is my .sig |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:27 am Post subject:
Re: Is Tivo still in business?? |
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|
Chris Adams (cmadams@hiwaay.net) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
| Quote: | It is a lot smarter to save up and pay cash (or use a credit card but
pay it off every month).
|
Yeah, I buy just about everything on my credit card, and pay it off each
month. I get 1% back from my card company for my purchases...it's not
much, but it means they are paying me to have the card (no annual fee).
--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/CDChristmasList.jpg |
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