DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

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Dave S
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

AnthonyR wrote:

Quote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:jWJbf.5539$lb7.63484@news1.mts.net...

AnthonyR wrote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:FBvaf.5067$lb7.58610@news1.mts.net...

Peabody wrote:

I'm getting a DVD burner, and it occurred to me that I also need to get
some blanks. But which kind? My burner will handle both, and I think
my stand-alone DVD player will handle both, so I wonder if one format is
generally thought to be better technically, or burn quicker, or if one
is more likely to be useable by a friend or relative I might send a DVD
to. Any consensus on this?

And, does the answer change if we're talking about data DVDs instead of
movie DVDs?

It's about the DVD player that you'll be playing these DVDs on.

Mine, a Pioneer, plays only DVD-R, won't recognize DVD+R at all.

Dave S.

Dave,
What about a DVD+R that has been recorded with an altered bit to show up
as DVD-ROM?
I heard recording them that way allows some older DVD Players that don't
play DVD+R to accept them.

AnthonyR.

I've never heard of this, but that doesn't mean much at this time.

What bit needs to be altered, and what software is used to do this?

Dave S.

hey Dave S,

Ok I did a quick Google and these are some links that explain what I was
asking about more.
It's the booktype bitsetting that burning software can sometimes change to
signal to a player the type of disc it's about to read.

Some of these links explain it better than I can.:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/150

http://www.signvideo.com/btst-d.htm

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=44

Here is a quote from one link:
Most studies seem to show that under "normal conditions" the two formats are
about equal and that something like 80-90% of modern DVD players can handle
them, if the DVD's are encoded and burned properly. DVD-RW and DVD+RW
generally have lower compatibility rates and really should only be used for
internal purposes such as previewing DVD projects on players you know can
handle RW DVD's.

But, DVD+R is able take advantage of the not-so-well known "bitsetting,"
also called "bit setting," "bit mode compatibility," "compatibility
bitsetting" and probably some names I haven't heard of yet.

Whatever you call it, bitsetting is a process that changes the identity of a
DVD+R disk as seen by DVD players. DVD-R disks have information embedded in
them which identifies them to players as DVD-R. Replicated DVD's (ones that
have been stamped rather than burned) are identified as DVD-ROM. DVD+R disks
have no such embedded identity and, using certain DVD burners, it is
possible to make the DVD+R disks identify themselves as DVD-ROM.

Certain older DVD players, including DVD players in some laptop computers,
will not load DVD-R or DVD+R disks at all because those formats did not even
exist when the player's firmware was written. However, by changing the
bitsetting on a DVD+R to DVD-ROM, those players should be able to load and
play the DVD+R.

This is what I've been doing for years now just to play it safe and so far
have had great results. :)

AnthonyR.

Thanks very much for the heads-up, Anthony.
As I said, I had never heard of this before.

Now I read your reference about Plextor on cdfreaks, and because I'm
using a Plextor DVD burner and Plextools professional, I checked out my
software, and sure enough, I can choose to set the book type.
I will do a trial using a DVD+R (I thought I'd have to use that spindle
for data only!) and see if it will now play on my older Pioneer DVD player.

I'll post my results here.

Dave S.

Dave S
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

Dave S wrote:

Quote:

AnthonyR wrote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:jWJbf.5539$lb7.63484@news1.mts.net...

AnthonyR wrote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:FBvaf.5067$lb7.58610@news1.mts.net...

Peabody wrote:

I'm getting a DVD burner, and it occurred to me that I also need
to get some blanks. But which kind? My burner will handle both,
and I think my stand-alone DVD player will handle both, so I
wonder if one format is generally thought to be better
technically, or burn quicker, or if one is more likely to be
useable by a friend or relative I might send a DVD to. Any
consensus on this?

And, does the answer change if we're talking about data DVDs
instead of movie DVDs?

It's about the DVD player that you'll be playing these DVDs on.

Mine, a Pioneer, plays only DVD-R, won't recognize DVD+R at all.

Dave S.

Dave,
What about a DVD+R that has been recorded with an altered bit to
show up as DVD-ROM?
I heard recording them that way allows some older DVD Players that
don't play DVD+R to accept them.

AnthonyR.

I've never heard of this, but that doesn't mean much at this time.

What bit needs to be altered, and what software is used to do this?

Dave S.

hey Dave S,

Ok I did a quick Google and these are some links that explain what I
was asking about more.
It's the booktype bitsetting that burning software can sometimes
change to signal to a player the type of disc it's about to read.

Some of these links explain it better than I can.:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/150

http://www.signvideo.com/btst-d.htm

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=44

Here is a quote from one link:
Most studies seem to show that under "normal conditions" the two
formats are about equal and that something like 80-90% of modern DVD
players can handle them, if the DVD's are encoded and burned properly.
DVD-RW and DVD+RW generally have lower compatibility rates and really
should only be used for internal purposes such as previewing DVD
projects on players you know can handle RW DVD's.

But, DVD+R is able take advantage of the not-so-well known
"bitsetting," also called "bit setting," "bit mode compatibility,"
"compatibility bitsetting" and probably some names I haven't heard of
yet.

Whatever you call it, bitsetting is a process that changes the
identity of a DVD+R disk as seen by DVD players. DVD-R disks have
information embedded in them which identifies them to players as
DVD-R. Replicated DVD's (ones that have been stamped rather than
burned) are identified as DVD-ROM. DVD+R disks have no such embedded
identity and, using certain DVD burners, it is possible to make the
DVD+R disks identify themselves as DVD-ROM.

Certain older DVD players, including DVD players in some laptop
computers, will not load DVD-R or DVD+R disks at all because those
formats did not even exist when the player's firmware was written.
However, by changing the bitsetting on a DVD+R to DVD-ROM, those
players should be able to load and play the DVD+R.

This is what I've been doing for years now just to play it safe and so
far have had great results. :)

AnthonyR.

Thanks very much for the heads-up, Anthony.
As I said, I had never heard of this before.

Now I read your reference about Plextor on cdfreaks, and because I'm
using a Plextor DVD burner and Plextools professional, I checked out my
software, and sure enough, I can choose to set the book type.
I will do a trial using a DVD+R (I thought I'd have to use that spindle
for data only!) and see if it will now play on my older Pioneer DVD player.

I'll post my results here.

Dave S.

Yes!!! It works!

I used Plextools to change the drive settings - Book Type to DVD-ROM.
Then I copied the DVD+R that my Pioneer DV-525 wouldn't recognize to a
folder on my hard drive, and then used DVD-Copy to burn another DVD+R.

My DV-525 immediatly recognized it as a DVD and played it.

Thanks again, Anthony.

Dave S.

Richard Crowley
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

"James Perrett" wrote ...

Quote:

I've never understood the attraction of Ritek media. They made some very
bad CD-R media (although they improved after a while) and I wouldn't
expect them to make good DVD media. It sounds like their reputation for
DVD media was a bit of a fluke and they are now reverting to their normal
standard.

Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are the only two safe bets for media as far as
I'm concerned.

I agree for Taiyo Yuden. But Verbatim is not a DVD manufacturer.
They are a re-seller of several different brands of discs (including
Ritek), and not all their sources are in the "A-list"...
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

I use exclusively T-Y, and I buy them exclusively from Supermediastore
(I am in the USA).
http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/buyerguides/buymedia.htm

I have found the info at DigitalFAQ to be accurate and helpful.

Peabody
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

Richard Crowley says...

Quote:

"James Perrett" wrote ...

I've never understood the attraction of Ritek media.
They made some very bad CD-R media (although they
improved after a while) and I wouldn't expect them to
make good DVD media. It sounds like their reputation
for DVD media was a bit of a fluke and they are now
reverting to their normal standard.

Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are the only two safe bets for
media as far as I'm concerned.

I agree for Taiyo Yuden. But Verbatim is not a DVD
manufacturer. They are a re-seller of several different
brands of discs (including Ritek), and not all their
sources are in the "A-list"... http://www.digitalfaq.com
/media/dvdmedia.htm

I use exclusively T-Y, and I buy them exclusively from
Supermediastore (I am in the USA).
http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/buyerguides/buymedia
.htm

I have found the info at DigitalFAQ to be accurate and
helpful.

I'm the OP, and I appreciate everyone's comments. As it
turns out, on closer inspection, my drive is the Lite-On
SOHW-1633S, which burns +R at 16X, but -R at only 8X. So,
unless there's a significant problem with it, I think I
should go with +R. Except, I don't see a 16X DVD+R T-Y
offering. Ritek, TDK, Prodisc, Philips and Verbatim, but no
T-Y. Is that a bad omen for 16X in general? Is it just not
reliable?

I also noticed that Supermediastore doesn't sell Sony.
Anyone know of a reason?

And finally, does anyone know anything about the HP brand
disks?

Richard Crowley
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

"Peabody" wrote ...

Quote:

People seem to report more read problems with the higher-
speed discs. But maybe that is because they are just the
newest generation and the drive manufacturers are still
"dialing-in" the optimal writing parameters? And there are
some combinations of burners and disc brands that seem
to love each other.

Quote:

I also noticed that Supermediastore doesn't sell Sony.
Anyone know of a reason?

Ask them. Might be that they haven't had very good luck with
them?, or maybe they can't get them at a competitive price?

Quote:

And finally, does anyone know anything about the HP brand
disks?

If HP isn't a manufacturer (which they appear NOT to be),
then they are just a re-seller of other people's discs with their
name on them. In the words of Dirty Harry: "Do you feel lucky?"

AnthonyR
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:CePbf.5578$lb7.63873@news1.mts.net...

Quote:

Dave S wrote:
AnthonyR wrote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:jWJbf.5539$lb7.63484@news1.mts.net...

AnthonyR wrote:

"Dave S" <dabcschell@mts.not> wrote in message
news:FBvaf.5067$lb7.58610@news1.mts.net...

Peabody wrote:

I'm getting a DVD burner, and it occurred to me that I also need to
get some blanks. But which kind? My burner will handle both, and I
think my stand-alone DVD player will handle both, so I wonder if one
format is generally thought to be better technically, or burn
quicker, or if one is more likely to be useable by a friend or
relative I might send a DVD to. Any consensus on this?

And, does the answer change if we're talking about data DVDs instead
of movie DVDs?

It's about the DVD player that you'll be playing these DVDs on.

Mine, a Pioneer, plays only DVD-R, won't recognize DVD+R at all.

Dave S.

Dave,
What about a DVD+R that has been recorded with an altered bit to show
up as DVD-ROM?
I heard recording them that way allows some older DVD Players that
don't play DVD+R to accept them.

AnthonyR.

I've never heard of this, but that doesn't mean much at this time.

What bit needs to be altered, and what software is used to do this?

Dave S.

hey Dave S,

Ok I did a quick Google and these are some links that explain what I was
asking about more.
It's the booktype bitsetting that burning software can sometimes change
to signal to a player the type of disc it's about to read.

Some of these links explain it better than I can.:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/150

http://www.signvideo.com/btst-d.htm

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=-1&sid=-1&aid=44

Here is a quote from one link:
Most studies seem to show that under "normal conditions" the two formats
are about equal and that something like 80-90% of modern DVD players can
handle them, if the DVD's are encoded and burned properly. DVD-RW and
DVD+RW generally have lower compatibility rates and really should only
be used for internal purposes such as previewing DVD projects on players
you know can handle RW DVD's.

But, DVD+R is able take advantage of the not-so-well known "bitsetting,"
also called "bit setting," "bit mode compatibility," "compatibility
bitsetting" and probably some names I haven't heard of yet.

Whatever you call it, bitsetting is a process that changes the identity
of a DVD+R disk as seen by DVD players. DVD-R disks have information
embedded in them which identifies them to players as DVD-R. Replicated
DVD's (ones that have been stamped rather than burned) are identified as
DVD-ROM. DVD+R disks have no such embedded identity and, using certain
DVD burners, it is possible to make the DVD+R disks identify themselves
as DVD-ROM.

Certain older DVD players, including DVD players in some laptop
computers, will not load DVD-R or DVD+R disks at all because those
formats did not even exist when the player's firmware was written.
However, by changing the bitsetting on a DVD+R to DVD-ROM, those players
should be able to load and play the DVD+R.

This is what I've been doing for years now just to play it safe and so
far have had great results. :)

AnthonyR.

Thanks very much for the heads-up, Anthony.
As I said, I had never heard of this before.

Now I read your reference about Plextor on cdfreaks, and because I'm
using a Plextor DVD burner and Plextools professional, I checked out my
software, and sure enough, I can choose to set the book type.
I will do a trial using a DVD+R (I thought I'd have to use that spindle
for data only!) and see if it will now play on my older Pioneer DVD
player.

I'll post my results here.

Dave S.

Yes!!! It works!

I used Plextools to change the drive settings - Book Type to DVD-ROM.
Then I copied the DVD+R that my Pioneer DV-525 wouldn't recognize to a
folder on my hard drive, and then used DVD-Copy to burn another DVD+R.

My DV-525 immediatly recognized it as a DVD and played it.

Thanks again, Anthony.

Dave S.

Hey Dave,
I am so glad this worked for you!!
You know a lot of people, especially in the beginning cared more about which
side got more popular (as if they had vested interest)
and less about really what can make discs more compatible. Hopefully that's
changed with +R being excepted equally if not more nowadays. And this tip,
seems to remove a lot of the older player incompatibilities people keep
saying +R has.

So I was glad to share it with you. :)

Enjoy,
AnthonyR.

AnthonyR
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:07 am Post subject: Re: DVD-R or DVD+R - Does it matter?

"Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qk4cf.1606$om5.345@dukeread04...
..

Quote:

Hi Peabody,
Well I burn T-Y dvd+r's all the time at 16x even though they are only rated
for 8x.
the white ink jet top type, i have modified firmware in my burner to allow
this and NEVER
had a coaster with T-Y.
On the other hand with other brands, esp Prodisc, I get coasters all the
time even at 4x, esp when
filling up the disc to outer edges, full uses.

But you can find 16x T_Y now easily:
http://www.supermediastore.com/-taiyo-yuden-16x-dvd-r-4-7gb-shiny-silver-finish-200.html?WT.mc_id=051110superemaildvdonly

of course i still prefer the inkjet writable 8x over these, but this is a
great price for authentic 16 T-Y with free delivery.
:)

AnthonyR.

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