| Author |
Message |
Ric
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject:
Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
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Charlie Hoffpauir
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 05:43:36 -0500, "Ric" <no@way.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
|
You can use any DVD Recorder that has an internal hard drive as a
PVR... and there are lots available. I haven't seen one with multiple
tuners, but there are probably some out there.
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/ |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
|
A TiVo with a lifetime subscription isn't tied to cable, satellite or a
subscription. Only one tuner though.
--
This is my .sig |
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Ric
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:22 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11mhljmbaik2aa7@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use
it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
A TiVo with a lifetime subscription isn't tied to cable, satellite or a
subscription. Only one tuner though.
--
This is my .sig
|
It's not tied to a subscription, but I need a lifetime subscription? |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:38 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11mhljmbaik2aa7@corp.supernews.com...
On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use
it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
A TiVo with a lifetime subscription isn't tied to cable, satellite or a
subscription. Only one tuner though.
--
This is my .sig
It's not tied to a subscription, but I need a lifetime subscription?
|
Just a matter of semantics. Call the price of the box $350 and say it
requires no subscription. Is it really a subscription when you pay for it
once and own it forever (at least, it's tied to the box forever)? I would
say not but it's called a lifetime subscription regardless.
--
This is my .sig |
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GMAN
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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In article <A_aaf.47127$rE2.30544@fe10.lga>, "Ric" <no@way.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11mhljmbaik2aa7@corp.supernews.com...
On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use
it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
A TiVo with a lifetime subscription isn't tied to cable, satellite or a
subscription. Only one tuner though.
--
This is my .sig
It's not tied to a subscription, but I need a lifetime subscription?
No , what he is saying is that with a tivo, you can either pay a monthly |
subscription to their programming service (Guide Data) or pay a one time
upfrom $300 for a lifetime where you never pay any more than that. The reason
Tivo basically almost gives the unit away below cost is that they make it back
up in the subscription fee after about 2-3 years of service. When you pay for
a $300 lifetime, that is basically paying for the true cost of the hardware to
begin with and as such from that point on , you have the service for life.
There are DVD burners like from pioneer that have tivo basic (No subscription
required, basic VCR functionality , but then you get no season passes or
wishlists etc) , and then there are some that have the TV GUIDE built in (No
cost, but the tv guide data sucks). They both work like digital vcr's that you
can set the time to record yourself using vcr plus or manually. |
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Sterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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I bought the Philips HDRW720 DVD Recorder with 120 GB Hard Drive. It
works by pulling up the TV Guide and you can select shows for recording,
once, or regularly. It's interface is not as elegant as Tivo's and you
can't do the neat searches, wishlists, etc. but there is no subscription
fee.
The good side: no subscription fee! Also you can give it an external in
- from VCR or Tivo - and record and you can connect a digital camera to
the front. You can edit out commercials before you burn a show to disk.
The bad side: a lot of people hate this machine because the set up is a
real bear. You need be technically adept. The manual sucks. The on-line
manual sucks. You have to do a firmware update before you can do much
with it. It has to sit on 'standby' for 24 hours after you get it setup
before TV Guide populates.
BUT there is no subscription. It has a 120 gig harddrive and once you
get it working, it is a real sweetie.
I got mine (last month) at Costco.com for $199 so shop around for
prices. Amazon has it for $399! You can read the reviews on Amazon, but
don't let the disappointed buyers sway you on this. I think they
improved this machine in 2005 so disregard reviews from 2004.
I still have my Tivo (it was a gift with a year's paid subscription) and
am using both gizmos right now. Later, who knows...
I hope this helps,
Sterling
Ric wrote:
| Quote: | Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
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Ric
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:dkblji$q9b$1@news.xmission.com...
| Quote: | In article <A_aaf.47127$rE2.30544@fe10.lga>, "Ric" <no@way.com> wrote:
"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11mhljmbaik2aa7@corp.supernews.com...
On 2005-11-02, Ric <no@way.com> wrote:
Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available
that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to
use
it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners,
not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
A TiVo with a lifetime subscription isn't tied to cable, satellite or a
subscription. Only one tuner though.
--
This is my .sig
It's not tied to a subscription, but I need a lifetime subscription?
No , what he is saying is that with a tivo, you can either pay a monthly
subscription to their programming service (Guide Data) or pay a one time
upfrom $300 for a lifetime where you never pay any more than that. The
reason
Tivo basically almost gives the unit away below cost is that they make it
back
up in the subscription fee after about 2-3 years of service. When you pay
for
a $300 lifetime, that is basically paying for the true cost of the
hardware to
begin with and as such from that point on , you have the service for life.
There are DVD burners like from pioneer that have tivo basic (No
subscription
required, basic VCR functionality , but then you get no season passes or
wishlists etc) , and then there are some that have the TV GUIDE built in
(No
cost, but the tv guide data sucks). They both work like digital vcr's that
you
can set the time to record yourself using vcr plus or manually.
|
I understand his point, I was making light of it's apparent contradiction.
Still, when I buy a VCR, I don't have to pay for a programming service
whether it's a one time subscription fee that covers an entire year or
monthly installments. I'm perfectly capable of looking up my own showtimes
and programming a machine to record them at the proper time, I don't need a
subscription service to make this task easier. All I want is a digital age
box to replace a VCR, or in my case a stack of four, which is why I'd like
an upgradeable PVR that will accept dual tuner cards. |
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Jack Zwick
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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| Quote: | I understand his point, I was making light of it's apparent contradiction.
Still, when I buy a VCR, I don't have to pay for a programming service
whether it's a one time subscription fee that covers an entire year or
monthly installments. I'm perfectly capable of looking up my own showtimes
and programming a machine to record them at the proper time, I don't need a
subscription service to make this task easier.
|
You totally miss what TiVo does. It doesn't make the task easier. It
totally eliminates it. I want to catch WAG the Dog, (a great movie) TiVo
automatically recorded it in the middle of Tuesday Night off of More Max.
The amount of time saved from scouring TV listings every week far out
weighs any programming fee, unless you place a ZERO $$$ value on your
time.
| Quote: | All I want is a digital age
box to replace a VCR, or in my case a stack of four, which is why I'd like
an upgradeable PVR that will accept dual tuner cards. |
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Rob Kendall
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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| Quote: | I understand his point, I was making light of it's apparent contradiction.
Still, when I buy a VCR, I don't have to pay for a programming service
whether it's a one time subscription fee that covers an entire year or
monthly installments. I'm perfectly capable of looking up my own showtimes
and programming a machine to record them at the proper time, I don't need
a subscription service to make this task easier. All I want is a digital
age box to replace a VCR, or in my case a stack of four, which is why I'd
like an upgradeable PVR that will accept dual tuner cards.
|
How much roughly are you willing to pay for such a device? |
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Ric
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:59 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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"Rob Kendall" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:9aAaf.9028$Lv.2156@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net...
| Quote: |
I understand his point, I was making light of it's apparent
contradiction.
Still, when I buy a VCR, I don't have to pay for a programming service
whether it's a one time subscription fee that covers an entire year or
monthly installments. I'm perfectly capable of looking up my own
showtimes and programming a machine to record them at the proper time, I
don't need a subscription service to make this task easier. All I want is
a digital age box to replace a VCR, or in my case a stack of four, which
is why I'd like an upgradeable PVR that will accept dual tuner cards.
How much roughly are you willing to pay for such a device?
I'm new to PVR's, so I'm asking beginners questions. I am comfortable
getting my hands into a PC however and I can see myself putting a machine
like this together if I have the right info. I expect I could build a four
tuner box for under a thousand US. Glancing at TV listings and punching in
a couple of start and stop times is so second nature to me that it
literally takes only seconds. I really don't understand why some people
think this is such a complicated, time consuming thing to do. |
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Agave
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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Google "pvr multiple tuners" returns top 3
http://www.snapstream.com/
http://www.gbpvr.com/
http://www.sage.tv/
And this portal: http://www.byopvr.com/
Ric wrote:
| Quote: | Aside from building my own, are there any standalone PVR's available that
aren't tied to subscription, cable or satellite services. I'd like to use it
as a simple substitute for a VCR. Ideally, I'd like multiple tuners, not
necessarily HD, or one that can be upgraded...TIA
|
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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| Quote: | How much roughly are you willing to pay for such a device?
I'm new to PVR's, so I'm asking beginners questions. I am comfortable
getting my hands into a PC however and I can see myself putting a machine
like this together if I have the right info. I expect I could build a four
tuner box for under a thousand US. Glancing at TV listings and punching in
a couple of start and stop times is so second nature to me that it
literally takes only seconds. I really don't understand why some people
think this is such a complicated, time consuming thing to do.
|
Hmm, let's see, you've said 2 very different things.
First, an HTPC (home theater PC) isn't as simple as you're making it out
to be. First you've got to get the appropriate components:
CPU - needs to be powerful enough to multitask a few items at least, and
much *more* powerful if you're going to burn DVD's with it in under 2
days each. Say $100 for a midrange current generation model.
Motherboard - nothing special here, just current generation that will
fit in an HTPC case, say $80.
RAM - Needs a decent amt for multitasking w/out causing the recording to
hang or skip. Say 1 GB for around $100.
Storage - If you're doing HD you need *lots*. Let's say you separate
O/S and video storage, you'd need an 80 GB OS drive and a 300 GB storage
drive minimum. That's around $150 if you find good deals.
Optical drive - Most folks will want a DVD burner for archiving. $80.
Sound - if you really doing home theater, you want an add-on card
(unloads the sound processing from the CPU) w/ at least AC3 and Dolby
Digital 5.1 support, preferably 7.1, with optical or coax SP/DIF
connections. $80
Video - This is probably the toughest decision. Higher end video cards
have features that enhance video playback to make it smoother and
improve other features. But it's probably not worth spending $300 -
$500 on a gaming card unless you plan to game with it, so let's say $150
for a good midrange card.
Case - you need a nice looking, well designed case that will fit and
look good in a stereo rack. Those are a bit more expensive than the
norm, but not too much, $120. We'll assume that that includes a power
supply, though often they don't. If making the HTPC silent or very
quiet is important to you, you'll be spending more money here.
So, let's add that up:
$100 + $80 + $100 + $150 + $80 + $80 + $150 + $120 = $860
That's *very* conservative, and then you'll need to add in shipping
costs, taxes (when applicable), and sundry costs like cables, etc. And
that *still* doesn't include your *4* HD tuners. That'll set you back
min. $100 a piece so we're easily into the $1500 range. If I was
planning this project (and I have planned similar projects in the past)
I would budget $2000 to it and consider anything less a cost savings.
Second issue: programming ease. Tivo style scheduling is better only
marginally because it's easier than plugging in times. The major
advantages are that it automatically corrects for changes in schedule,
and manages multiple shows at once. What happens with your VCR program
when CBS moves a show from Tuesday to Thursday? What if they do this as
a one time change? What if it's permanent? What if they run a
special on another day, or two episodes back to back? With Tivo it's
all handled without touching a thing. One less thing to worry about or
think about. Also a big advantage to me is not having to worry about
tapes, i.e. finding empty ones, storing full ones, replacing worn out
ones, finding starting points and ending points on one, etc.
Randy S. |
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Wes Newell
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:01 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:56:48 -0500, Randy S. wrote:
| Quote: | First, an HTPC (home theater PC) isn't as simple as you're making it out
to be. First you've got to get the appropriate components:
Sure it is. |
| Quote: | CPU - needs to be powerful enough to multitask a few items at least, and
much *more* powerful if you're going to burn DVD's with it in under 2
days each. Say $100 for a midrange current generation model.
You can get by with one for $50, but I think you're right on here. |
| Quote: | Motherboard - nothing special here, just current generation that will
fit in an HTPC case, say $80.
$50. |
| Quote: | RAM - Needs a decent amt for multitasking w/out causing the recording to
hang or skip. Say 1 GB for around $100.
512M is plenty for $35. 1G for $65. |
| Quote: | Storage - If you're doing HD you need *lots*. Let's say you separate
O/S and video storage, you'd need an 80 GB OS drive and a 300 GB storage
drive minimum. That's around $150 if you find good deals.
HD storage takes about 9G per hour *if* you store the whole stream. Most |
will not use more than 5G per hour and can be as little as 1G per hour. So
you could start out with a single 120G drive and get 10-100 hours of
storage.
| Quote: | Optical drive - Most folks will want a DVD burner for archiving. $80.
Are you talking Canadian. I can buy 16x dual layer dual mode drives all |
day long around here for $40.
| Quote: | Sound - if you really doing home theater, you want an add-on card
(unloads the sound processing from the CPU) w/ at least AC3 and Dolby
Digital 5.1 support, preferably 7.1, with optical or coax SP/DIF
connections. $80
Not needed. My on board sound works fine. |
| Quote: | Video - This is probably the toughest decision. Higher end video cards
have features that enhance video playback to make it smoother and
improve other features. But it's probably not worth spending $300 -
$500 on a gaming card unless you plan to game with it, so let's say $150
for a good midrange card.
Let's say $35, cause that's all you really need. FX5200. Spending more |
won't get you more (for video).
| Quote: | Case - you need a nice looking, well designed case that will fit and
look good in a stereo rack. Those are a bit more expensive than the
norm, but not too much, $120. We'll assume that that includes a power
supply, though often they don't. If making the HTPC silent or very
quiet is important to you, you'll be spending more money here.
One can get by with a $30 case/PSU. |
| Quote: | So, let's add that up:
$100 + $80 + $100 + $150 + $80 + $80 + $150 + $120 = $860
That's *very* conservative, and then you'll need to add in shipping
costs, taxes (when applicable), and sundry costs like cables, etc. And
that *still* doesn't include your *4* HD tuners. That'll set you back
min. $100 a piece so we're easily into the $1500 range. If I was
planning this project (and I have planned similar projects in the past)
I would budget $2000 to it and consider anything less a cost savings.
Well, mines well under $1500. In fact, it's under $1000, and that's with 4 |
HD tuners. I just got my first tuner card (Fusion HDTV5 Gold) and Linux
support for the new tuner it has is just now getting into the kernel, but
it's there. The main problem is getting support for it (in ATSC mode) in
the software. it works fine in NTSC. It comes with Windows software, but I
don't do windows and I here that the windows media software limits you to
2 or 3 cards anyway.
| Quote: | Second issue: programming ease. Tivo style scheduling is better only
marginally because it's easier than plugging in times.
|
Not an issue here, that's what i do with my S1 tivo, but it's not very
good at it either.
--
KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Any Comercially Available PVR's ? |
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| Quote: | CPU - needs to be powerful enough to multitask a few items at least, and
much *more* powerful if you're going to burn DVD's with it in under 2
days each. Say $100 for a midrange current generation model.
You can get by with one for $50, but I think you're right on here.
Motherboard - nothing special here, just current generation that will
fit in an HTPC case, say $80.
$50.
|
That's just quibbling over $30. It could easily vary that much
depending on minor features. If you want RAID support (which would be
nice for multiple large drives) you're not going to get that with a $50
board.
| Quote: | RAM - Needs a decent amt for multitasking w/out causing the recording to
hang or skip. Say 1 GB for around $100.
512M is plenty for $35. 1G for $65.
|
You're going to want RAM if you're burning to DVD (encoding and the
like). But 2 sticks of decent 512 MB RAM (for dual channel) can be had
for $75 or so I suppose. Any cheaper than that and you're buying
bargain basement RAM, and this isn't a "how cheap can you be" contest,
the box needs to be reliable.
| Quote: | Storage - If you're doing HD you need *lots*. Let's say you separate
O/S and video storage, you'd need an 80 GB OS drive and a 300 GB storage
drive minimum. That's around $150 if you find good deals.
HD storage takes about 9G per hour *if* you store the whole stream. Most
will not use more than 5G per hour and can be as little as 1G per hour. So
you could start out with a single 120G drive and get 10-100 hours of
storage.
|
Oh, sure you're building an HD HTPC and you're going to allocate as
little as 10 hrs of recording time? What are you, a cable company?
With 4 tuners you could fill that up in 2.5 hours. If you tell me that
all 4 tuners won't be in use at the same time, than why have 4 tuners?
| Quote: | Optical drive - Most folks will want a DVD burner for archiving. $80.
Are you talking Canadian. I can buy 16x dual layer dual mode drives all
day long around here for $40.
|
Quibbling again. So make it $50 for a round figure.
| Quote: | Sound - if you really doing home theater, you want an add-on card
(unloads the sound processing from the CPU) w/ at least AC3 and Dolby
Digital 5.1 support, preferably 7.1, with optical or coax SP/DIF
connections. $80
Not needed. My on board sound works fine.
|
You're on-board sound on that $50 board supports good quality surround
sound without loading up the processor? Why build an HTPC that doesn't
support quality sound? I guess your machine is ok for a college dorm
room, but it won't be going into my living room.
| Quote: |
Video - This is probably the toughest decision. Higher end video cards
have features that enhance video playback to make it smoother and
improve other features. But it's probably not worth spending $300 -
$500 on a gaming card unless you plan to game with it, so let's say $150
for a good midrange card.
Let's say $35, cause that's all you really need. FX5200. Spending more
won't get you more (for video).
|
Video quality is important, particularly for HD signal, don't skimp on
that. What you *don't* need is 3-D horsepower, but some of the higher
end cards do have features to smooth playback and add some anti-aliasing
to even 2-D signals. Besides, you're going to have a full fledged PC
hooked up to your 30" or larger HDTV and you're never going to want to
play a game on it? Ever?
| Quote: |
Case - you need a nice looking, well designed case that will fit and
look good in a stereo rack. Those are a bit more expensive than the
norm, but not too much, $120. We'll assume that that includes a power
supply, though often they don't. If making the HTPC silent or very
quiet is important to you, you'll be spending more money here.
One can get by with a $30 case/PSU.
|
Oh, c'mon, now your just cheating. You're going to set a $30 piece of
plastic crap next to your $2000 HDTV and it'll sound like a leafblower
everytime the fans spin up? Have some respect for ambient noise levels
and aesthetic value. Again this isn't a contest to see what a cheap POS
you can build, this has to be something you want to look at and work
with every day.
| Quote: |
So, let's add that up:
$100 + $80 + $100 + $150 + $80 + $80 + $150 + $120 = $860
That's *very* conservative, and then you'll need to add in shipping
costs, taxes (when applicable), and sundry costs like cables, etc. And
that *still* doesn't include your *4* HD tuners. That'll set you back
min. $100 a piece so we're easily into the $1500 range. If I was
planning this project (and I have planned similar projects in the past)
I would budget $2000 to it and consider anything less a cost savings.
Well, mines well under $1500. In fact, it's under $1000, and that's with 4
HD tuners. I just got my first tuner card (Fusion HDTV5 Gold) and Linux
support for the new tuner it has is just now getting into the kernel, but
it's there. The main problem is getting support for it (in ATSC mode) in
the software. it works fine in NTSC. It comes with Windows software, but I
don't do windows and I here that the windows media software limits you to
2 or 3 cards anyway.
|
Where are you getting these cards for so cheap? The only places I can
find that card they are listing at $149. So that's $600 just in tuner
cards. So the rest of the PC is under $400? Sorry, this is not an HTPC
that I'd want to own. If I built an HTPC (and I have investigated it
several times), it would have to support:
- recording *at least* a weeks worth of programs, preferably 2 wks. 10
hours won't meet that.
- full digital surround sound, preferably 7.1 (why support HD without
the full effect?)
- burning shows to DVD in a decent period of time *without* affecting
video playback.
- occasional 3-D game playing (not necessarily at extreme performance
levels)
- use by non-geeks (this is tricky for *any* current HTPC right now)
- fitting attractively into the living room environment, preferably
similar to the other audio and video equipment in the rack.
- reduced sound levels so as not to be noticeable during quiet movie
passages.
I don't think your design comes anywhere near to meeting most of those.
| Quote: | Second issue: programming ease. Tivo style scheduling is better only
marginally because it's easier than plugging in times.
Not an issue here, that's what i do with my S1 tivo, but it's not very
good at it either.
|
First, you took my statement out of context (badly). Second, your
response doesn't make sense. Third, it certainly *was* an issue because
of the previous posts comment:
| Quote: | Glancing at TV listings and punching in
a couple of start and stop times is so second nature to me that it
literally takes only seconds. I really don't understand why some people
think this is such a complicated, time consuming thing to do.
|
Which is what I was addressing.
Randy S. |
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