| Author |
Message |
Gary P
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:25 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"PTravel" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3sslamFpkvc1U1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
"Seattle Eric" <noone@erehwon.gov> wrote in message
news:4369166b$0$1759$8b463f8a@news.nationwide.net...
No reason to get copyright for this application: "fair-use" covers it.
Should she cite you as the source of the non-infringement opinion? ;)
I think fair use _should_ cover it, but I'm unaware of any decisional law
that has addressed it. Until it has, it's an open question.
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Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you sing "Happy
Birthday"
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Gary P
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:26 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5jvaf.4418$m81.0@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Is it copyright law that you don't like?
It's pretty clear that many folks in this forum don't respect copyright
laws. And also pretty clear that a LOT of them wouldn't agree that
copyright laws are a good thing. Further, it seems to me that which side
of
the copyright issue you're on depends largely upon whether or not the
person
has ever created a copyrighted work.
Steve
|
I regularly create copyrighted work. If anyone wants to use it in a
subsidiary fashion to make a present for their granny it's fine with me. |
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Gary P
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:29 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MIvaf.23$ek6.10@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
| Quote: |
"Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5jvaf.4418$m81.0@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Is it copyright law that you don't like?
It's pretty clear that many folks in this forum don't respect copyright
laws. And also pretty clear that a LOT of them wouldn't agree that
copyright laws are a good thing. Further, it seems to me that which side
of
the copyright issue you're on depends largely upon whether or not the
person
has ever created a copyrighted work.
Hey Steve,
But if I were to write a book, I would love for people to BUY it, but more
importantly to me, would be for people to read it!
|
Good point. Look at the abortion that is the art market. Painter does a
painting to encourage people to see the world in a new way. Possibly doesn't
sell in his lifetime. Gets sold later at such exorbitant prices that only a
millionaire can buy it to put in the bathroom of his yacht. There's a point
where the aims of capital and copyright and the aims of art do not coincide
at all. |
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PTravel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:33 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com> wrote in message news:436cf90f$1@127.0.0.1...
| Quote: | "PTravel" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3sslamFpkvc1U1@individual.net...
"Seattle Eric" <noone@erehwon.gov> wrote in message
news:4369166b$0$1759$8b463f8a@news.nationwide.net...
No reason to get copyright for this application: "fair-use" covers it.
Should she cite you as the source of the non-infringement opinion? ;)
I think fair use _should_ cover it, but I'm unaware of any decisional
law
that has addressed it. Until it has, it's an open question.
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you sing "Happy
Birthday"
|
I don't understand why so many people have trouble separating apples from
oranges. My only point was that it is incorrect to label the proposed use
as fair use. I have no opinion whatsoever whether the OP should do what she
proposes to do.
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Larry J.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com>
said:
| Quote: | Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
|
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
But, if I try to use the song for TV, radio, or sync it in any way
for a production, that's where the owner's rights kick in.
--
Larry Jandro
Video Engineering & Equipment Rentals
Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
[Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to reply] |
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AnthonyR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:23 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com> wrote in message news:436cfa00$1@127.0.0.1...
| Quote: | "AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MIvaf.23$ek6.10@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
"Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5jvaf.4418$m81.0@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Is it copyright law that you don't like?
It's pretty clear that many folks in this forum don't respect copyright
laws. And also pretty clear that a LOT of them wouldn't agree that
copyright laws are a good thing. Further, it seems to me that which
side of
the copyright issue you're on depends largely upon whether or not the
person
has ever created a copyrighted work.
Hey Steve,
But if I were to write a book, I would love for people to BUY it, but
more importantly to me, would be for people to read it!
Good point. Look at the abortion that is the art market. Painter does a
painting to encourage people to see the world in a new way. Possibly
doesn't sell in his lifetime. Gets sold later at such exorbitant prices
that only a millionaire can buy it to put in the bathroom of his yacht.
There's a point where the aims of capital and copyright and the aims of
art do not coincide at all.
|
Hey Gary,
I never thought about art, thanks... i imagine if music were sold as art is,
one song would sell for millions
of dollars at auction, and only the legal copyright holder would have
permission to own and play that song.
Supply and demand, but people copy art all the time, and only the original
is worth the high bucks.
Sort of this analog and digital thing, since analog copies are never quite
as good as the original the music industry
is fearing the digital copies cause they are exact duplicates of the
original.
It's not the same thing I know, but was fun thinking and comparing the two.
Thanks,
AnthonyR. |
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AnthonyR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:27 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
| Quote: | Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
But, if I try to use the song for TV, radio, or sync it in any way
for a production, that's where the owner's rights kick in.
--
Larry Jandro
Video Engineering & Equipment Rentals
Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
[Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to reply]
|
Really? I never knew this, so everytime I videotape a birthday party and
people happen to sing this, i can't give them a legal copy of their home
party unless I contact and pay someone for the legal rights for the guests
to sing "Happy Birthday" at their party?
Is this true?
How do I go about paying this fee? Is it reasonable, i don't want to be
breaking laws here if I can help it.
AnthonyR. |
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Gary P
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
| Quote: | Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
|
According to United States copyright law in United States Code, Title 17
§106, authors of works such as musical compositions have the exclusive right
"to perform the copyrighted work publicly." In United States Code, Title 17
§101, the law defines publicly performing a work as "to perform or display
it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number
of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social
acquaintances is gathered."
This means that if you sing Happy Birthday to your family at home, you're
probably not committing copyright infringment. However, if you do it in an
restaurant - and if the restaurant hasn't already worked out a deal with
ASCAP - you may be engaging in copyright infringement. |
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Gary P
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"AnthonyR" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Gdbbf.12595$u43.7895@twister.nyc.rr.com...
| Quote: | Really? I never knew this, so everytime I videotape a birthday party and
people happen to sing this, i can't give them a legal copy of their home
party unless I contact and pay someone for the legal rights for the guests
to sing "Happy Birthday" at their party?
Is this true?
How do I go about paying this fee? Is it reasonable, i don't want to be
breaking laws here if I can help it.
|
Hi Anthony
This might interest you.
http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp |
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Gary P
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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|
"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
| Quote: | Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
|
No you can't. you can sing it in the home, but performing it in a pbuclic
space like a street, restaurant, or sports arena technically requires a
license from ASCAP or the Harry Fox agency.
| Quote: | But, if I try to use the song for TV, radio, or sync it in any way
for a production, that's where the owner's rights kick in.
|
So better not film your grandma's birthday...
Gary |
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AnthonyR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com> wrote in message news:436d66c3$1@127.0.0.1...
| Quote: | "Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
According to United States copyright law in United States Code, Title 17
§106, authors of works such as musical compositions have the exclusive
right "to perform the copyrighted work publicly." In United States Code,
Title 17 §101, the law defines publicly performing a work as "to perform
or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a
substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and
its social acquaintances is gathered."
This means that if you sing Happy Birthday to your family at home, you're
probably not committing copyright infringment. However, if you do it in an
restaurant - and if the restaurant hasn't already worked out a deal with
ASCAP - you may be engaging in copyright infringement.
|
OK, I understand, and thanks for that great web link.
But my question now to this group is legally how and what steps need to be
taken by someone
getting paid to videotape a birthday party for someone, that takes place
either in the home or a commercial hall
or restaurant and then is sold to the customer?
Who do we contact to pay and what about if we tape the event and discover
they sang it spontaneously?
Did we already break the law by not having prior written authorization, and
when we try and get will
we have to pay a penalty?
I have done many sweet sixteen birthday parties so far and haven't been sued
yet, I am living dangerously aren't I?
AnthonyR.
:) |
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AnthonyR
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com> wrote in message news:436d66c3$1@127.0.0.1...
| Quote: | "Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
According to United States copyright law in United States Code, Title 17
§106, authors of works such as musical compositions have the exclusive
right "to perform the copyrighted work publicly." In United States Code,
Title 17 §101, the law defines publicly performing a work as "to perform
or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a
substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and
its social acquaintances is gathered."
This means that if you sing Happy Birthday to your family at home, you're
probably not committing copyright infringment. However, if you do it in an
restaurant - and if the restaurant hasn't already worked out a deal with
ASCAP - you may be engaging in copyright infringement.
|
Thanks Gary,
As a friend just pointed out to me, what about all the millions of weddings
taking place every day in the USA?
They hire bands who sing songs in a commercial place (rented hall) most
songs are copyrighted.
They don't pay royalties and either does the video guy who records the event
and later charges for his services.
And what about the millions of D.J.'s charging commercially every day for
their services?
They don't pay royalties to all those artists. A lot of those artists won't
even release their permission
to some music for sale online yet, but D.J.'s just play any song the crowd
asks for.
I see this all the time. And now a lot of these travelling DJ's have all
their music in laptops and mix digitally
at a party, they charge between $100 and up for a party, that wouldn't even
cover the royalties.
And these guys support themselves as a living doing this, can't get any more
commercial than this.
I suspect, once a Movie hits Hollywood status (millions of dollars from box
office) then it gets attractive to
artists to sue for money, and small production just isn't worth it to them
and their lawyers, no?
AnthonyR. |
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David McCall
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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"Larry J." <usenet2@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97057D0796C3Dthefrogprince@68.6.19.6...
| Quote: | Waiving the right to remain silent, "Gary P" <nospam@thankyou.com
said:
Well I hope you guys voluntarily pay royalties every time you
sing "Happy Birthday"
AFAIK, I can go into the street and sing "Happy Birthday" all day
long - as long as my neighbors don't shoot me - wihout infringing on
copyright.
But, if I try to use the song for TV, radio, or sync it in any way
for a production, that's where the owner's rights kick in.
That sounds about right, but it might be somewhat worse than that. |
My understanding is that restaurants can't have their wait staff sing
Happy Birthday to their customers without paying. That is why they
have those stupid alternate songs to sing instead.
Laws are broken all of the time. Many of them are not usually
enforced, but remain in place just in case someone wants to
prosecute you. Perhaps Persecute might be more accurate.
David |
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bo peep
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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<<Who do we contact to pay>>
See for email and snailmail addresses - http://unhappybirthday.com
Note that the song "Happy Birthday" brings in about $2,000,000 per year
in royalties.
John Cowart |
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bo peep
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Music for my home video... |
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<<As a friend just pointed out to me, what about all the millions of
weddings taking place every day in the USA? They hire bands who sing
songs in a commercial place (rented hall) most songs are copyrighted.>>
There are many wedding songs available which do not require a royalty -
see
http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/royalty-free-wedding-music.html
John Cowart |
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