| Author |
Message |
Ralph Staub
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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TommyDale wrote:
| Quote: | GFI 's should be mandatory around water. Our building codes require
that any electrical circuit in the vicinity of water MUST be connected
to a Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit Breaker. As soon as a slight
difference in potential/voltage occurs, the breaker trips off.
Was one installed at this location?
The thing to remember is that the code does not take into account the |
300+ feet of braided ground wire (a.k.a. shield) running from a
completely separate location. while FOH is not "physically" within the
vicinity, it is "electrically" so.
Ralph
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John O
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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| Quote: | GFI 's should be mandatory around water. Our building codes require
that any electrical circuit in the vicinity of water MUST be connected
to a Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit Breaker. As soon as a slight
difference in potential/voltage occurs, the breaker trips off.
Was one installed at this location?
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Peter Larsen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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"David A. Cull" wrote:
| Quote: | None of the articles that I found online reported the cause of the
electrocution.
|
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as the cause.
Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by several, the solution
of all ails, simply because touching a grounded artifact is possibly
lethal. I have experimentally determined this to be an issue to be aware
of.
The actual scenario can only be electrically safe with a wireless mic.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
******************************************* |
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Peter Larsen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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TommyDale wrote:
| Quote: | GFI 's should be mandatory around water. Our building codes require
that any electrical circuit in the vicinity of water MUST be connected
to a Ground Fault Interrupter Circuit Breaker. As soon as a slight
difference in potential/voltage occurs, the breaker trips off.
Was one installed at this location?
|
Such devices do not address power that finds an alternative route
between live and neutral, the are a part of a safety concept, but not an
entire safety concept.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
******************************************* |
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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"Peter Larsen"
| Quote: | Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as the cause.
|
** That is merely the physical scenario - but contains no info about the
cause of the electrocution.
| Quote: | Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by several, the solution
of all ails, simply because touching a grounded artifact is possibly
lethal. I have experimentally determined this to be an issue to be aware
of.
|
** Why do you imagine Double Insulation was invented ?
| Quote: | The actual scenario can only be electrically safe with a wireless mic.
|
** The scenario is perfectly safe, long as the water tis not electrified.
If it is, then there are dozens of way to die other than using an earthed
mic.
........... Phil |
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Arny Krueger
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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"GregS" <szekeres@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:dkafi0$g0t$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu
| Quote: | In article <436846B3.711B7F2F@mail.tele.dk>, Peter Larsen
SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote:
"David A. Cull" wrote:
None of the articles that I found online reported the
cause of the electrocution.
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as
the cause.
More like swimming. He was up to his shoulders in water.
Not
even a wireless mike would be good.
|
Yes, one need only check the wet areas on the pastor's
clothing when he gets out of the baptistery.
Tops of shoulders are probably dry, but most of the rest
that handg lower on his body is wet. |
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Bob Urz
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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Arny Krueger wrote:
| Quote: | "GregS" <szekeres@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:dkafi0$g0t$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu
In article <436846B3.711B7F2F@mail.tele.dk>, Peter Larsen
SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote:
"David A. Cull" wrote:
None of the articles that I found online reported the
cause of the electrocution.
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as
the cause.
More like swimming. He was up to his shoulders in water.
Not
even a wireless mike would be good.
Yes, one need only check the wet areas on the pastor's
clothing when he gets out of the baptistery.
Tops of shoulders are probably dry, but most of the rest
that handg lower on his body is wet.
Wireless boundary mike. Use two if you have to. NEXT to the water. |
No bodily connection. Now how hard can that be?
This whole conversation has turned into chicken little.
Far as that goes, a hard wired shotgun a little farther out.
Plenty of solutions for those who think about it .......
Bob
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Bob Urz
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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Arny Krueger wrote:
| Quote: | "Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in
message news:436846B3.711B7F2F@mail.tele.dk
"David A. Cull" wrote:
None of the articles that I found online reported the
cause of the electrocution.
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as
the cause.
Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by several,
the solution of all ails, simply because touching a
grounded artifact is possibly lethal. I have
experimentally determined this to be an issue to be aware
of.
The actual scenario can only be electrically safe with a
wireless mic.
The US electrical code allows that in some cases putting
something out of reach can make it safe, as well.
So, the ideas involving PZM mics and choir mics hanging out
of reach have some merit.
The US electrical code does NOT tell us how many microphones, speakers, |
front end, or how to use it or apply it. It DOES tell us how to size
electrical outlets, how many are needed and why, What kind of wire we
can use where and why, conduit no conduit, etc. The NEC tells you how
close you can put a light switch or electrical outlet to a damp area.
It don't say squat about microphones. You could make a limited case
that a microphone line could be a class 1 or two circuit if your
feeding phantom down it an powering a condenser microphone.
The most of the good stuff there is all in articles 300,640 and 725.
Article 300 deals with plenum spaces and such and what is permitted
wiring wise.
Now, a smart guy can figure that out. Buts its not a clear NEC issue.
Now, if you block access to an electrical panel with your sound
rack or its too close that IS a NEC issue.
Bob
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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Arny Krueger
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
|
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"Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:1130948889_157@spool6-east.superfeed.net
| Quote: | Arny Krueger wrote:
"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in
message news:436846B3.711B7F2F@mail.tele.dk
"David A. Cull" wrote:
None of the articles that I found online reported the
cause of the electrocution.
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as
the cause.
Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by
several, the solution of all ails, simply because
touching a grounded artifact is possibly lethal. I have
experimentally determined this to be an issue to be
aware of.
The actual scenario can only be electrically safe with a
wireless mic.
The US electrical code allows that in some cases putting
something out of reach can make it safe, as well.
So, the ideas involving PZM mics and choir mics hanging
out of reach have some merit.
The US electrical code does NOT tell us how many
microphones, speakers, front end, or how to use it or
apply it.
|
Never said it did, Bob. How many straw men do you want to
bring into AAPLS today? |
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Bob Urz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
|
|
Arny Krueger wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:1130948889_157@spool6-east.superfeed.net
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in
message news:436846B3.711B7F2F@mail.tele.dk
"David A. Cull" wrote:
None of the articles that I found online reported the
cause of the electrocution.
Standing in water and touching a wired mic is given as
the cause.
Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by
several, the solution of all ails, simply because
touching a grounded artifact is possibly lethal. I have
experimentally determined this to be an issue to be
aware of.
The actual scenario can only be electrically safe with a
wireless mic.
The US electrical code allows that in some cases putting
something out of reach can make it safe, as well.
So, the ideas involving PZM mics and choir mics hanging
out of reach have some merit.
The US electrical code does NOT tell us how many
microphones, speakers, front end, or how to use it or
apply it.
Never said it did, Bob. How many straw men do you want to
bring into AAPLS today?
Those of us who DO live sound contracting have to think about |
those issues every day. And we HAVE to stay on top of what we
can and cannot do. And worry about legislation that makes it
illegal for us to run our won low voltage wires without an
electrician or being licensed.
Bob
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Phildo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:11 am Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
|
|
"Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:1130945329_73@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
| Quote: | Far as that goes, a hard wired shotgun a little farther out.
Plenty of solutions for those who think about it .......
|
While I would certainly advocate the use of a shotgun on the people at the
top of the church, surely using one on an innocent pastor who knows no
better is going a bit far?
Phildo |
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Peter Larsen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
|
|
Phil Allison wrote:
| Quote: | Just grounding is not, as already pointed out by several,
the solution of all ails, simply because touching a grounded
artifact is possibly lethal. I have experimentally determined
this to be an issue to be aware of.
** Why do you imagine Double Insulation was invented ?
|
Because of just that concern, however it had not prevented what nearly
killed me, proper grounding of the extra applicance used on a grounded
printing press however would have ensured that the mains fusing blew.
| Quote: | If it is, then there are dozens of way to die other than using
an earthed mic.
|
Probably also much less unpleasant than 220 volts 50 Hz arm to arm.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
******************************************* |
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stealthaxe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:
Re: shocking church sound |
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szekeres@pitt.edu (GregS) wrote in
news:dkafi0$g0t$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu:
| Quote: | More like swimming. He was up to his shoulders in water. Not
even a wireless mike would be good.
|
wireless mic with a head mount :-D
--
stealthaxe |
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