| Author |
Message |
Steven Sullivan
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
And is there a home-cooked way of comparing input to output that doesn't
involve expensive equipment? Or any other suggestions for
determining whether any given speaker is really audibly distorting (that
doesn't involve setting up an ABX, sorry).
--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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"Steven Sullivan" <ssully@panix.com> wrote in message
news:djs0rj0bkg@news2.newsguy.com...
| Quote: | I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
And is there a home-cooked way of comparing input to output that doesn't
involve expensive equipment? Or any other suggestions for
determining whether any given speaker is really audibly distorting (that
doesn't involve setting up an ABX, sorry).
|
It's really quite simple. Swap the "bad" speaker for the one on the other
side that's OK. If the problem travels to the other side along with the
speaker, then it's the speaker that's bad. If it stays on the same side,
then it's the signal that's bad--not the speaker.
Norm Strong |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Steven Sullivan wrote:
| Quote: | I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
|
Ain't that the truth. This is almost too obvious to suggest, but the
first thing I would do is switch left and right speakers, and see
whether the problem moves with the speakers. Of course, you may not
notice the problem again--but that would be good!
| Quote: | I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
And is there a home-cooked way of comparing input to output that doesn't
involve expensive equipment? Or any other suggestions for
determining whether any given speaker is really audibly distorting (that
doesn't involve setting up an ABX, sorry).
|
Given the intermittent nature of the problem, ABX tests might not be
helpful. You need a relaxed, monadic approach(!). However, you could
have someone come in and rearrange your speakers for you. Then see if
you can pinpoint where the problem is.
bob |
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ScottW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Steven Sullivan wrote:
| Quote: | I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
|
That depends on the crossover points in your speaker. IME the
toughest signal for a driver to handle is at the low end of its FR
where it is called upon for max excursion.
But how may Test tones does your test CD have? I've got one with about
20 and it would only take me about 5 min to subjectively evaluate a
channel with all of them.
ScottW |
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chung
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Steven Sullivan wrote:
| Quote: | I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
And is there a home-cooked way of comparing input to output that doesn't
involve expensive equipment? Or any other suggestions for
determining whether any given speaker is really audibly distorting (that
doesn't involve setting up an ABX, sorry).
|
Have you checked the speaker cable connections at the amp and speakers
and make sure that they are in good condition?
I have good success with using pink noise to check speaker frequency
response, and sometimes distortion. In your case, all 5 speakers should
sound alike. I don't know if anyone makes a 5.1 compatible test disc,
but the old Stereophile test CD's have pink noise tracks (as well as
sinewave tones). |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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chung wrote:
| Quote: | Steven Sullivan wrote:
I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes')
in a 5.1, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has
been my impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty'
-- cymbals breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the
soundstage.
much snippage
the old Stereophile test CD's have pink noise tracks (as well as
sinewave tones).
|
The Stereophile test CDs are still available from www.stereophile.com.
Given Mr. Sullivan's description of the symptoms, either the 1/3-octave
warble tones or the half-step-spaced tonebursts on "Editor's Choice"
might be helpful in identifying the problem.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile |
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Steven Sullivan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Stereophile_Editor@compuserve.com wrote:
| Quote: | chung wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:
I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes')
in a 5.1, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has
been my impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty'
-- cymbals breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the
soundstage.
much snippage
the old Stereophile test CD's have pink noise tracks (as well as
sinewave tones).
The Stereophile test CDs are still available from www.stereophile.com.
Given Mr. Sullivan's description of the symptoms, either the 1/3-octave
warble tones or the half-step-spaced tonebursts on "Editor's Choice"
might be helpful in identifying the problem.
|
I have CD1 and 2 and was considering using the sinewave tones as tests.
IIRC see that #1 has warble tones on there too.
Thena gain, the 'problem' seemed to not be there when I listened
'monodically' last night,
so this might all just be an exercise in audio hobbyist paranoia on my part
--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow |
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David E. Bath
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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In article <dk0d2d01e6o@news4.newsguy.com>,
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> writes:
| Quote: |
Thena gain, the 'problem' seemed to not be there when I listened
'monodically' last night,
so this might all just be an exercise in audio hobbyist paranoia on my part
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I once had a similar problem, and I found that some of the screws that
hold the drivers to the cabinet had loosened. Tightening them solved
it. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:24 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Consider interstation noise on a fm tuner while varying the level quickly,
testing each speaker alone of course. Tuning in and out of the edge of a
station should generate some interesting noise also that mightfall in the
range of the problem. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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David E. Bath wrote:
| Quote: | In article <dk0d2d01e6o@news4.newsguy.com>,
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> writes:
Then again, the 'problem' seemed to not be there when I listened
'monodically' last night, so this might all just be an exercise
in audio hobbyist paranoia on my part
I once had a similar problem, and I found that some of the screws
that hold the drivers to the cabinet had loosened. Tightening them
solved it.
|
That would have been my first suspicion, most probably the woofer.
Rub'n'buzz'n'rattle problems are difficult to pin down when they are
intermittent. The best way to find them is use a slowly swept
sinewave. If you use a manually controlled generator -- rare these
days -- you can zoom in on the suspicious region until the problem
is unambiguously excited.
Let me know if the problem happens again, Mr. Sullivan.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile |
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Steven Sullivan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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David E. Bath <davidbath1@bigfoot.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <dk0d2d01e6o@news4.newsguy.com>,
Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> writes:
Thena gain, the 'problem' seemed to not be there when I listened
'monodically' last night,
so this might all just be an exercise in audio hobbyist paranoia on my part
I once had a similar problem, and I found that some of the screws that
hold the drivers to the cabinet had loosened. Tightening them solved
it.
|
I should have mentioned, I'd already checked that as a possibility before
I first posted -- because it *had* been an issue with one of the loudspeakers
before. |
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GregS
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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In article <djuo0n02hf9@news4.newsguy.com>, chung <chunglau@covad.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Steven Sullivan wrote:
I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a 5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
I figured I could roughly test the speakers by listening to test tones
from a CD (on the EMI label, I don't have the info handy right now).
I've tried playing test tones through each speaker -- a tedious job --
but I'm not sure the tones I used cover enough of the spectrum to
'pinpoint' a problem, if one exists. Which and how many frequencies
should one 'test' to get a decent picture of performance?
And is there a home-cooked way of comparing input to output that doesn't
involve expensive equipment? Or any other suggestions for
determining whether any given speaker is really audibly distorting (that
doesn't involve setting up an ABX, sorry).
Have you checked the speaker cable connections at the amp and speakers
and make sure that they are in good condition?
I have good success with using pink noise to check speaker frequency
response, and sometimes distortion. In your case, all 5 speakers should
sound alike. I don't know if anyone makes a 5.1 compatible test disc,
but the old Stereophile test CD's have pink noise tracks (as well as
sinewave tones).
|
I was going to suggest pink noise, but many times I use an old trick, AM music, which
is banwidth limited in most cases. You could also use bandwidth limited
pink noise, to cut out the top end. The theory here, is giving a speaker
a bunch of drive to excite any rattles or squeeks, which is partly masked
by the high frequencies that are normally there. How you perform this
test may be tricky. Feeding one speaker at a time through another system
might be the answer.
greg |
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Norman M. Schwartz
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Steven Sullivan wrote:
| Quote: | I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a
5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
|
Maybe not your imagination, but yet worse, possibly your hearing? |
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Steven Sullivan
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Determining if a loudspeaker is 'broken' |
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Norman M. Schwartz <nmsz@optonline.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Steven Sullivan wrote:
I've got 5 'identical' bookshelf-sized speakers (NHT SuperOnes') in a
5.1
, bass-managed setup. At various times recently, it has been my
impression that at least one of them has become 'spitty' -- cymbals
breaking up, for example, but only on one side of the soundstage.
At other times, I don't notice this happening. One would think it's
recording-specific, and maybe it is, but maybe not. Or it could be a
preamp/amp/player issue, but I suspect not, as these units are all
of very recent vintage and purchase, while the speakers are getting on
in years. Or I could be imagining things. Intermittently-noticable
'problems' suck.
Maybe not your imagination, but yet worse, possibly your hearing?
|
That , too. Anyway, whatever it was, it's gone now.
--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow |
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