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ptk
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject:
Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
Pete
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"ptk" <pete@fabmanbro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1130349623.213255.117350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
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You get what were known as aphex-ears.
| Quote: | Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
I often used to use on inserted on a vocal channel or on a snare just to |
give a bit of cut. If you can hear the effect then you are over-using it.
They're a useful tool if used sparingly.
Phildo |
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mfassett@pacbell.net
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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ptk wrote:
| Quote: | I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
Pete
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Someone else can answer about enhancers, but exciters mix in distortion
in the upper frequencies to give the signal more sizzle. They work for
live sound, IMHO, but a little goes a long way.
The BBE processors do something different.. or maybe Distortion plus
something else, someone else will have to clarify. I remember the BBE
processors had something about time alignment in their literature, but I
don't know how that works. |
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GregS
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:41 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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In article <C0Q7f.7174$tV6.936@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "mfassett@pacbell.net" <mark@particlesalad.com> wrote:
| Quote: | ptk wrote:
I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
Pete
Someone else can answer about enhancers, but exciters mix in distortion
in the upper frequencies to give the signal more sizzle. They work for
live sound, IMHO, but a little goes a long way.
The BBE processors do something different.. or maybe Distortion plus
something else, someone else will have to clarify. I remember the BBE
processors had something about time alignment in their literature, but I
don't know how that works.
|
I really don't know if that time alignment matters much. Its for some typical
setup, which may not be typical in another setup. If it changes sound, it
would be at some decided crossover point, but can vary in real life.
The main thing it does, is change the level of the highs in reference to amplitude of
some lower frequency reference point. It kinda balances the sound, but the level
of the HF boost can be varied manually. For the most part, it generally
boosts the highs with no distortion products added.
I'm not at all familiar with all the enhancers. There is one thing I hear
on FM or AM broadcasts, that adds a very irritating 1-2 kHz rattling sizzle easily
heard on voices that I hate. I wish I could identify that processor, so I could complain about it.
Sounds like a real cheap crystal microphone. Been around for a long time.
greg |
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Splat
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:08 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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GregS wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not at all familiar with all the enhancers. There is one thing I
hear
on FM or AM broadcasts, that adds a very irritating 1-2 kHz rattling
sizzle easily
heard on voices that I hate. I wish I could identify that processor,
so I could complain about it.
Sounds like a real cheap crystal microphone. Been around for a long
time.
|
Man, remember those Aphex Aural Exciters? ha!
---
Splat |
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ptk
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:55 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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I've come across adverts for these - on Ebay and new as well. Our
vocals (Classic Rock - http://www.fabmanbro.co.uk) seem to get lost in
the 'rock' noise, and we're not the most consistent of singers at the
best of times. If this thing would isolate them, I might get one and
try it out. |
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Tim Scott
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:47 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"ptk" <pete@fabmanbro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1130363716.807942.257550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I've come across adverts for these - on Ebay and new as well. Our
vocals (Classic Rock - http://www.fabmanbro.co.uk) seem to get lost in
the 'rock' noise, and we're not the most consistent of singers at the
best of times. If this thing would isolate them, I might get one and
try it out.
|
If your vox are getting "lost in the rock noise" then you have a problem,
and this machine will not fix it.
As a generalisation, you need to turn the noise down on stage - as quiet as
you can get it - you only need the sound on stage to be able to hear
yourselves and each other play - your hearing does not work well at extreme
levels, and it will damage it. Aim your guitar cabs at your ears - get them
up high on top of fligh cases to be at ear level, or if you don't have
anything that tall and sturdy then on the floor, but at a 45 degree angle
pointing at the player.
If you can get rid of the cabs, and monitors all together - DI guitars
through amp sims, and get IEMs - keep the cabs on stage for image/effect if
you want.
Basically the quieter you are on stage - then the easier it is for your
sound engineer to get a good sound out front for your audience. I guess
this then all goes back to who are you performing the gig for - this is a
question that you will need to ask yourselves - where are your priorities
for your band, and where are you headed??? Are you playing to please an
audience with your songs, or are you playing for self indulgence and to
please yourselves, and don't really care about the audience.
Your post could be taken to mean the vocals on stage in the monitors is
being lost and you can't hear yourselves sing, or that the vocals in the FOH
mix are being lost. Both of these problems can be put down to there being
too much noise on stage. Although they can also be put down to not having a
good sound engineer driving the system. |
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Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:18 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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| Quote: | I'm not at all familiar with all the enhancers. There is one thing I hear
on FM or AM broadcasts, that adds a very irritating 1-2 kHz rattling
sizzle easily
heard on voices that I hate. I wish I could identify that processor, so I
could complain about it.
Sounds like a real cheap crystal microphone. Been around for a long time.
greg
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It's called a Aphex Vigilante. One station that I broadcast a special
interest program on uses that. Raspy, irritating crackle to the upper
midrange. Just awful. Owner claims it's the loudest processor on the radio
market.
--
Best Regards,
Mark A. Weiss, P.E.
www.mwcomms.com
- |
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Geoff@work
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"ptk" <pete@fabmanbro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1130349623.213255.117350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
|
Nothing new about them. Grover Washington - Winelight probably the first
major release to boast exciter user - The Aphex Anal Exciter (or was that
Oral)....
As to whether or not you like excitement is up to you.
geoff |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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Tim Scott wrote:
< snip >
| Quote: | Although they can also be put down to not having a
good sound engineer driving the system.
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The ones who reckon the most important item in the FOH mix is the kick drum
maybe ?
Graham |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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ptk wrote:
| Quote: | I've come across adverts for these - on Ebay and new as well. Our
vocals (Classic Rock - http://www.fabmanbro.co.uk) seem to get lost in
the 'rock' noise, and we're not the most consistent of singers at the
best of times. If this thing would isolate them, I might get one and
try it out.
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Tell the back line to turn down ! That's the only way to deal with that
particular problem.
Graham |
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Michael Wozniak
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"ptk" <pete@fabmanbro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1130349623.213255.117350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I've never knowingly heard one of these being used, and all the
non-promo literature talks about the sound becoming tiring after a
while.
Are there any famous live recordings available where one is used for
part of the set and then switched off so I can hear the difference?
Would one make the vocal clarity better, and which model is best?
Pete
Enhancers and exciters are different beasts. Exciters, IMO, are much more |
agressive sounding (think rock or rap). The BBE enhancers are more
"hi-fi/clarity" oriented. The BBE's delay the mids & highs relative to the
lows, which increases intelligibility. I'd use an exciter as more of a
special effect, and use an enhancer if I had the volume (but not the
clarity) I wanted. Don't use much of either, if you use them at all. If you
have good equipt. and good ears, you shouldn't need either.
Mikey
Nova Music Productions |
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TimPerry
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"Splat" <spamspamspamspamspam@spamthis.org> wrote in message
news:J6mdncQQ6-0gcsLeRVn-tA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | GregS wrote:
I'm not at all familiar with all the enhancers. There is one thing I
hear
on FM or AM broadcasts, that adds a very irritating 1-2 kHz rattling
sizzle easily
heard on voices that I hate. I wish I could identify that processor,
so I could complain about it.
|
quite often the station is optimized for the music content. when the jock
talks he likes to boost his level 6 to 12 dB hotter. often you see the VU
meter banging aginst the stops. somtimes the mixwer ouput goes to a digital
delay or other digital device. when you hit the "red" the distortion is
audible and obnoxious.
of course every stage needs to have sufficient headroom and problems can
occur at any point. operator error is just the first place to look.
| Quote: | Sounds like a real cheap crystal microphone. Been around for a long
time.
Man, remember those Aphex Aural Exciters? ha!
---
Splat
|
the theory on aural exciters goes something like this: audio consists of
non-sinusoidal waveforms that have a fundamental frequency and overtones
(harmonics)
for example a square wave consists of a fundamental frequency plus the
third, fifth, seventh, and every following odd numbered harmonic on to
infinity. some pictures and more details can be found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave
it is said that audio with a high content of odd order harmonic sounds harsh
and audio with predominantly even order harmonics sounds pleasant.
the aural exciters claim to add clarity without boosting gain or EQ.
i have 4 different models. i find they do work as advertised, however the
better your PA system the less you need them. mine stay home and gather dust
these days except for one that sees studio use in fixing up recordings. |
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Joe L
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"Michael Wozniak" <novamusic@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:nJY7f.694$2y.420@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Enhancers and exciters are different beasts. Exciters, IMO, are much more
agressive sounding (think rock or rap). The BBE enhancers are more
"hi-fi/clarity" oriented. The BBE's delay the mids & highs relative to the
lows, which increases intelligibility. I'd use an exciter as more of a
special effect, and use an enhancer if I had the volume (but not the
clarity) I wanted. Don't use much of either, if you use them at all. If
you have good equipt. and good ears, you shouldn't need either.
Mikey
Nova Music Productions
|
Doesn't a BBE delay the mids and LOWS to clear up the mix? Simulates an
increase in high end. And then it has a second knob for 80hz low bandpass to
add some low freq's....the overall effect is like a home stereo loudness
button.
JL |
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Tim Padrick
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Exciters/enhancers - what's that all about then? |
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"Michael Wozniak" <novamusic@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:qtj8f.1064$2y.399@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Joe L" <me@myhouse.com> wrote in message
news:1e98f.330469$tl2.63724@pd7tw3no...
"Michael Wozniak" <novamusic@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:nJY7f.694$2y.420@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Enhancers and exciters are different beasts. Exciters, IMO, are much
more
agressive sounding (think rock or rap). The BBE enhancers are more
"hi-fi/clarity" oriented. The BBE's delay the mids & highs relative to
the lows, which increases intelligibility. I'd use an exciter as more
of
a special effect, and use an enhancer if I had the volume (but not the
clarity) I wanted. Don't use much of either, if you use them at all. If
you have good equipt. and good ears, you shouldn't need either.
Mikey
Nova Music Productions
Doesn't a BBE delay the mids and LOWS to clear up the mix? Simulates an
increase in high end. And then it has a second knob for 80hz low
bandpass
to add some low freq's....the overall effect is like a home stereo
loudness
You're right, I mistakenly switched my terms. Lows are delayed so that
mids/highs arrive first, thus increasing intelligibility. The BBEs I've
had
(older mono model 401, IIRC) had the 80hz volume control & a built in mic
pre, as well as the HF knob. Good for giving back what older narrow-format
analog tape machines lost on the top end. Once I went digital, I found I
just didn't need them any more. Still, a different beast than the Aphex
exciters.
|
These gadgets put back in the distortion that you sought to eliminate when
you bought better equipment. IME, no matter how good or crummy the
system. the sound is always best with the gadget in bypass mode. |
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