| Author |
Message |
Tom Alaerts
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Tone Controls-EQ's, Etc. |
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I always thought that omitting tone controls was a marketing approach
by most high-end companies (with a few exceptions such as Quad and
Mcintosh).
Indeed, tone controls change the sound. But so what? If YOU like it
better that way, then that's all there is to it. Tone controls are used
widely during the production of CDs (more for pop music than for
classical music), and why should we regard the production engineer as
the almighty god who should decide which tone is good for us?
Another example is that some of my CDs do sound quite bad, typically
it's those that originate from old tapes. Now most of the time I play
music without tone controls but in such cases a bit of carefully
applied filtering in my Quad pre-amp yields perhaps less fidelity but
certainly more music!
best regards, Tom
| Quote: | Hi All, Sorry if this has been covered a zillion times before, but I
have some questions concerned Hi-End equipment, and thier features, or I
should say, lack of.
I notice that many modern high end Pre-Amplifiers have an absence of
simple Tone Controls.
I understand the reasoning behind this, as the simpler the chain, the
less interference, or "destruction" I should say of the purity of sound
by introducing Tone Controls into the Pre-Amplifier's Circuittry. Do
purists now cringe at the thought of having at least a Bass-Treble
Control on thier Pre-Amps?
We would assume with these modern Pre-Amps, that the signal produced
would be flat from xxHz to xx,xxxHz, but I wonder what one now does due
to inefficiencies in room acoustics, or the inefficiencies of a given
speaker?
Does one with these type of systems now have to typically resort to
modifying thier speakers x-overs, spend countless $100's, to $1,000's of
dollars in room treatments, call in the "sound techs" for advice-testing
or what?
Is the addition of a simple Graphic EQ such a taboo thing nowadays?
I do see EQ's in abundance for the pro user, but really not much
available for the home audio user? What is left out there? Is there
such a thing as a good EQ that will not be a detriment to high-end audio
components?
Or am I missing the boat somehow, that people who own audio gear like
$12K Krell Amps, $7K Krell Pre-Amps, and $14K Speaker systems have no
need for such an animal? TIA, Mark |
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BEAR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Tone Controls-EQ's, Etc. |
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nyob123@peoplepc.com wrote:
| Quote: | "bear" <bearlabs@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:djpfpt04te@news4.newsguy.com...
Mark D wrote:
|
<snip>
| Quote: | EQ can not correct for anything other than frequency response - usually on
axis. If used for on axis frequency response, power response is altered.
In addition EQ often adds noise and if not noise, definitely phase shift,
which if it is in the form of narrow band correction (higher "Q") results
in phase shift which is potentially more audible.
Which Equalizers are not minimum phase?
|
Minimum phase does not mean no phase shift, now does it?
What I was concerned about is something like a graphic EQ of a high
number of bands or a parametric where the Q is set high, and a large
boost or cut is utilized... thus my comment above. but phase shift is
not the main or only concern mentioned.
| Quote: | Will 2 equalizers generating the same curve, will they not then generate the
same amount of phase shift?
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Except in the case of a DSP designed to correct in the time domain as well?
And will both equalizers generate the same amount of distortion and noise?
Will they have the identical *band stop* characteristics??
Will the "identical curves" in fact be identical?
Are *all equalizers* equally good and the same??
| Quote: |
Graphic EQ circuits are usually "horrid little things"...
Because of what?
|
Poorly designed circuits made to be cheap, cheap cheap?
--> usually... is what the quote was.
| Quote: |
snip
Still, it seems that most studios where the music is recorded use some of
both.
They start by having a decent room and then tweaking it as needed.
|
Not terribly relevant to the question at hand.
Some studios/labels don't "tweak" with EQ or compression/limiting.
Some do.
Take ur pick.
| Quote: |
The traditional Baxandall Treble and Bass controls really have limited
application or use with modern high-end systems. Even so, there are
situations where adding in an outboard EQ or Baxandall tone control
section may be euphonically pleasing... I do have these available for use,
if required, but that is a rare occurance these days indeed.
IME, typical rooms have bass bumps that can cause 10 dB or more of boost at
low freqencies, some sort of parametric or other EQ would certainly be
advantageous for these situations, and indeed it seems that some makers of
subwoofer amps are including them.
|
I'd posit that EQ at LF is *less* of an issue or not an issue.
EQ that also extends up into the voice frequencies and beyond *is* of
concern in my view.
| Quote: |
I just don't see why an anybody with a hi-fi shouldn't be given a bit of
flexability in tailoring the sound of their system.
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take all the flexibility you like for your system, and your philosophy?
| Quote: |
Some FM brodcasts or certain older LPs could oftten benefit from a bit of
trebel boost that is simply absent from so much of todays equipment.
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Neither coming under the heading of "high-end" or "state of the art"
sources. So, fine, add that into *that part of the signal chain* - if
that is your preferred "solution"...
EQ has it's place - but not in my system if it has to be connected in
the signal chain all the time - even with a "bypass switch" in the EQ
box, thanks... I have assorted EQ means available if needed. That was
not the question in the original post.
_-_-bear |
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Carver1200
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: Tone Controls-EQ's, Etc. |
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Mark D Wrote:
| Quote: | Hi All, Sorry if this has been covered a zillion times before, but I
have some questions concerned Hi-End equipment, and thier features, or
I
should say, lack of.
I notice that many modern high end Pre-Amplifiers have an absence of
simple Tone Controls.
I understand the reasoning behind this, as the simpler the chain, the
less interference, or "destruction" I should say of the purity of
sound
by introducing Tone Controls into the Pre-Amplifier's Circuittry. Do
purists now cringe at the thought of having at least a Bass-Treble
Control on thier Pre-Amps?
We would assume with these modern Pre-Amps, that the signal produced
would be flat from xxHz to xx,xxxHz, but I wonder what one now does
due
to inefficiencies in room acoustics, or the inefficiencies of a given
speaker?
Does one with these type of systems now have to typically resort to
modifying thier speakers x-overs, spend countless $100's, to $1,000's
of
dollars in room treatments, call in the "sound techs" for
advice-testing
or what?
Is the addition of a simple Graphic EQ such a taboo thing nowadays?
I do see EQ's in abundance for the pro user, but really not much
available for the home audio user? What is left out there? Is there
such a thing as a good EQ that will not be a detriment to high-end
audio
components?
Or am I missing the boat somehow, that people who own audio gear like
$12K Krell Amps, $7K Krell Pre-Amps, and $14K Speaker systems have no
need for such an animal? TIA, Mark
|
Mark: I wouldn't run a good 2 channel music system without some good
availible EQ included. Recording engineers use it, whats to say they
got it right for our systems. I have an Audio Control C-101 in my
system, with moderate settings of no more than 1 or 2db, which really
helps the dreaded bass room boom. You can also tame down some of the
hyped up bass in many modern pop recordings. The C-101 also has a sweet
18db/octave sub-sonic filter, that allows higher listening levels
without feedback problems when listening to vinyl. Speaking of vinyl or
bad CD transfers, some EQ can really help here. Recently some audio
purist(non EQ) friends were over listening to older recordings on my
system. I tailored in some moderate EQ and couldn't get them to leave.
Go figure.
--
Carver1200 |
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