| Author |
Message |
Gene Sweeny
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:08 am Post subject:
A night at the bar |
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This is too funny.
No gig for me tonight, so a buddy and I go down to the local club to
see this "new up and coming band." I heard a lot of hype, so they had
much to live up to.
Let me paint the picture a little. The room is probably the worst
place to try to run sound in this area. It's a diamond shaped room
with a corner stage. THe bar is an L tucked in the far corner from the
stage but serves as nice obstacle to fire your subs into. All the
surfaces are hard tile. No place to tie in, several circuits with
broken grounds and probably miswired. The house system likes to hum
like a transformer ready to explode. Consists of 4 smackie Eon looking
things about 10 feet up on shelves not pointing down mind you. And a
smackie powered sub that farts on occasion. But the place is semi
popular.
The band brings a Peavey PA. 2 18"s per side and a pair of HF+2x15"
tops. They were supposed to start at 10PM and I got there around
10:30. Fifteen more minutes passes. I hear an announcement over house
PA... uhhh we're having technical difficulties so sit tight. We look
at each other and decide to bail these fools out.
I get to the amp rack and there is about 10 giga-miles of cable on the
floor. Some of it is connected some isn't. The sound guy is like a
chiuaua on crack who had too much coffee for the last 5 years. He's
like I'm not the regular sound guy, I don't know how to hook this stuff
up blah blah. Drummer is like, "the sub amp is working, let's just
play."
My collegue starts eyeing up the amps rack and the mess of wires that
sits below it. He quickly suspected the amps should be in bridge mono
based on the number of amp channels vice speakers. Correct was he.
They were Crowns with no bridge mode switches. Need special wye
cables. I ask, do you have some wye cables. Uhhh yeah, somewhere at
the bottom of the pile. We him-haw around checking the connections on
crossovers and double checking FOH. (Arny, that's where the the guy
sits that does the mixing).
So we get the shit connected and now we have signal on the amps. Still
nada on the FOH speakers. We find a banana to 1/4" we use to debug
some stuff. I'm like... I know what it is. The speaker cables need to
be wired 1+/2+ (speakon). I go look at the end currently connected to
the left speaker and it's 1+/2+ I look at the end near the amp 1+/1-.
They had the speaker cables reversed. Flip that around and get it
working. Bam, it's a go.
It's 11 now. crowd is getting rowdy... and they want to go through a
drum check. WTF. I'm like get the f'ing kick working and a vocal mic.
Call it a night. We're talking 4 pc alternative rock band here.
Operator turns the gains up on 5 or 6 drum mics and it starts to feed
like a mother. We get some of it notched out and adjust everything.
Set him up with some good EQ on the vocals and head toward the rear of
the joint to listen to the worst band ever.
What a night. I want my $4 cover back.
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Michael Wozniak
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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"Gene Sweeny" <goo1ween@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129961284.514025.316770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | This is too funny.
No gig for me tonight, so a buddy and I go down to the local club to
see this "new up and coming band." I heard a lot of hype, so they had
much to live up to.
Let me paint the picture a little. The room is probably the worst
place to try to run sound in this area. It's a diamond shaped room
with a corner stage. THe bar is an L tucked in the far corner from the
stage but serves as nice obstacle to fire your subs into. All the
surfaces are hard tile. No place to tie in, several circuits with
broken grounds and probably miswired. The house system likes to hum
like a transformer ready to explode. Consists of 4 smackie Eon looking
things about 10 feet up on shelves not pointing down mind you. And a
smackie powered sub that farts on occasion. But the place is semi
popular.
The band brings a Peavey PA. 2 18"s per side and a pair of HF+2x15"
tops. They were supposed to start at 10PM and I got there around
10:30. Fifteen more minutes passes. I hear an announcement over house
PA... uhhh we're having technical difficulties so sit tight. We look
at each other and decide to bail these fools out.
I get to the amp rack and there is about 10 giga-miles of cable on the
floor. Some of it is connected some isn't. The sound guy is like a
chiuaua on crack who had too much coffee for the last 5 years. He's
like I'm not the regular sound guy, I don't know how to hook this stuff
up blah blah. Drummer is like, "the sub amp is working, let's just
play."
My collegue starts eyeing up the amps rack and the mess of wires that
sits below it. He quickly suspected the amps should be in bridge mono
based on the number of amp channels vice speakers. Correct was he.
They were Crowns with no bridge mode switches. Need special wye
cables. I ask, do you have some wye cables. Uhhh yeah, somewhere at
the bottom of the pile. We him-haw around checking the connections on
crossovers and double checking FOH. (Arny, that's where the the guy
sits that does the mixing).
So we get the shit connected and now we have signal on the amps. Still
nada on the FOH speakers. We find a banana to 1/4" we use to debug
some stuff. I'm like... I know what it is. The speaker cables need to
be wired 1+/2+ (speakon). I go look at the end currently connected to
the left speaker and it's 1+/2+ I look at the end near the amp 1+/1-.
They had the speaker cables reversed. Flip that around and get it
working. Bam, it's a go.
It's 11 now. crowd is getting rowdy... and they want to go through a
drum check. WTF. I'm like get the f'ing kick working and a vocal mic.
Call it a night. We're talking 4 pc alternative rock band here.
Operator turns the gains up on 5 or 6 drum mics and it starts to feed
like a mother. We get some of it notched out and adjust everything.
Set him up with some good EQ on the vocals and head toward the rear of
the joint to listen to the worst band ever.
What a night. I want my $4 cover back.
No good deed goes unpunished..... |
Mikey |
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Tim Scott
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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|
"Gene Sweeny" <goo1ween@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129961284.514025.316770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | This is too funny.
No gig for me tonight, so a buddy and I go down to the local club to
see this "new up and coming band." I heard a lot of hype, so they had
much to live up to.
I hear an announcement over house
PA... uhhh we're having technical difficulties so sit tight. We look
at each other and decide to bail these fools out.
What a night. I want my $4 cover back.
|
You deserve more than $4 back - you deserve to be paid for saving the gig,
which would not have happened if you hadn't been there, or would have
happened, but to no ones pleasure. |
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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"Tim Scott" <timscott18@nospamplease.spamarrest.com> wrote in message
news:3rumrgFlk9taU1@individual.net...
Phildo |
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Splat
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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Gene Sweeny wrote:
| Quote: | Let me paint the picture a little. The room is probably the worst
place to try to run sound in this area. It's a diamond shaped room
with a corner stage. THe bar is an L tucked in the far corner from
the stage but serves as nice obstacle to fire your subs into. All the
|
Sounds like Double D's Shark Bar up in northern NJ. Anyway, please redeem
your raincheck for one good deed's payment at the service desk. BTW, the
service desk is closed for renovations. ;-D
---
Splat |
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hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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Phildo <Phil@phildo.net> wrote:
| Quote: | http://groups.google.com/group/alt.audio.pro.live-sound/browse_frm/thre
ad/755cef262f0b5e4f/9021d9a01d6e55d4?lnk=st&q=black+pig+salisbury+phild
o&rnum=1&hl=en#9021d9a01d6e55d4
|
AKA
http://tinyurl.com/8ecq5
--
ha |
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Mike
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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| Quote: | My collegue starts eyeing up the amps rack and the mess of wires
that sits below it. He quickly suspected the amps should be in
bridge mono based on the number of amp channels vice speakers.
Correct was he. They were Crowns with no bridge mode switches.
Need special wye cables. I ask, do you have some wye cables.
Uhhh yeah, somewhere at the bottom of the pile. We him-haw
around checking the connections on crossovers and double
checking FOH. (Arny, that's where the the guy sits that does the
mixing).
So we get the shit connected and now we have signal on the amps.
Still nada on the FOH speakers. We find a banana to 1/4" we use
to debug some stuff. I'm like... I know what it is. The speaker
cables need to be wired 1+/2+ (speakon). I go look at the end
currently connected to the left speaker and it's 1+/2+ I look at the
end near the amp 1+/1-. They had the speaker cables reversed.
Flip that around and get it working. Bam, it's a go.
|
See, this is why you build panels for your amp racks.... That way you
can just plug in with a 'normal' cable and everything works.
Mike Borkhuis |
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Gene Sweeny
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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Mike wrote:
| Quote: |
See, this is why you build panels for your amp racks.... That way you
can just plug in with a 'normal' cable and everything works.
Mike Borkhuis
|
I totally agree. I don't even get why they make amps with speakons on
the back. They could probably save $2 on every amp they made. |
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Gene Sweeny
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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Mike wrote:
| Quote: | See, this is why you build panels for your amp racks.... That
way you can just plug in with a 'normal' cable and everything works.
I totally agree. I don't even get why they make amps with speakons on
the back. They could probably save $2 on every amp they made.
I personally LIKE speakons on the back of the amp. Nice secure
connection that's easily undone if you ever have to swap out an amp. It's
also insulated so you don't have to worry about shorts like on the spade
terminals used on Crown Marcotechs.
Add XLR connections and an IEC power connector and you can swap an amp
without moving any cabling. =)
Mike Borkhuis
|
The ability to swap stuff out is nice I'll grant you that. However, I
rarely use the speakon outs. I use binding posts if present and the
spade terminals for the incoming signal. And DON'T get me started on
the hell that is IEC connectors. Worst connector design ever IMO. I
wish neutrik would develop a powercon that would mount in an IEC square. |
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Mike
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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| Quote: | See, this is why you build panels for your amp racks.... That
way you can just plug in with a 'normal' cable and everything works.
I totally agree. I don't even get why they make amps with speakons on
the back. They could probably save $2 on every amp they made.
|
I personally LIKE speakons on the back of the amp. Nice secure
connection that's easily undone if you ever have to swap out an amp. It's
also insulated so you don't have to worry about shorts like on the spade
terminals used on Crown Marcotechs.
Add XLR connections and an IEC power connector and you can swap an amp
without moving any cabling. =)
Mike Borkhuis |
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Mike
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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| Quote: | The ability to swap stuff out is nice I'll grant you that. However, I
rarely use the speakon outs. I use binding posts if present and the
spade terminals for the incoming signal.
|
Binding posts do work good. Reletively easy to swap out a connection.
And, for shallow racks, they have the advantage of not sticking out as far
as a speakon connector would.
Haven't seen too many amps with binding post inputs lately.... They're
more common on install amps and I've been working mostly on the portable
side of the business. Mainly with Yorkville AP, Crown Macrotech and QSC PLX
series amps.
| Quote: | And DON'T get me started on the hell that is IEC connectors.
Worst connector design ever IMO. I wish neutrik would develop
a powercon that would mount in an IEC square.
|
Now see, I've rarely had a problem with IEC connectors. Some poeople
like to secure their IEC cables with silicon, but I haven't found a need for
that. I make sure the AC cables are tied up and not hanging loose in the
rack. The only times I've had them fall out was when the rack got dropped
on it's back. If you regularly transport your racks on their backs then you
might need to silicon the connectors or get those little securing clips that
are made for the IEC connections.
As for the powercons, I'm not real fond of them... I've actually seen
where powercons have been confused for a NL4 and plugged in to the wrong
place (with much force). NEVER underestimate the power of a roadie. =)
My personal preference is to use distinctly different types of
connectors for different uses. IEC, Twist lock, edison and camlok
connections for AC, speakon/EP for speakers and XLR for signal. Makes it
hard to plug something into the wrong TYPE of connector.
Mike Borkhuis |
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Rob Beech
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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| Quote: | Now see, I've rarely had a problem with IEC connectors. Some poeople
like to secure their IEC cables with silicon, but I haven't found a need
for
that. I make sure the AC cables are tied up and not hanging loose in the
rack. The only times I've had them fall out was when the rack got dropped
on it's back. If you regularly transport your racks on their backs then
you
might need to silicon the connectors or get those little securing clips
that
are made for the IEC connections.
As for the powercons, I'm not real fond of them... I've actually seen
where powercons have been confused for a NL4 and plugged in to the wrong
place (with much force). NEVER underestimate the power of a roadie. =)
My personal preference is to use distinctly different types of
connectors for different uses. IEC, Twist lock, edison and camlok
connections for AC, speakon/EP for speakers and XLR for signal. Makes it
hard to plug something into the wrong TYPE of connector.
Mike Borkhuis
|
QSC plx series are a PITA when it comes to IEC connectors. i've had to
fasten them all in now as they would work loose just from a bit of traveling
(admitedly on its back where the wheels are). 4 2402's for monitors and 2
3402 on high mid and hi for FOH. all come out.
I use a DCX2496 on the monitor rack to biamp the drum fill and this hasn't
had any problems at all.
numerous times i can take the back off the rack and theres 4 iecs roaming
around inside. The DCX's still firmly in place.
I certainly agree with making panels up. theres no reason not to for outputs
especially. You need someone that knows how they are wired up though in
case they go wrong.
Its all about making life so much easier isn't it. I use an 8 way XLR multi
to go to the monitor amp rack, this stays wired into the rack. and comes out
the front panel. The outputs are on the front panel aswell.
Same with FOH. Means once ive plugged teh supply in at the back (32 single
phase FOH and 16 single phase Mons) i can put them in a corner out the way
and work from the front panel.
Just have FOH itself to sort out now, bit of a mess at the moment.
Rob |
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Jason Lavoie
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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| Quote: |
QSC plx series are a PITA when it comes to IEC connectors. i've had to
fasten them all in now as they would work loose just from a bit of traveling
(admitedly on its back where the wheels are). 4 2402's for monitors and 2
3402 on high mid and hi for FOH. all come out.
I use a DCX2496 on the monitor rack to biamp the drum fill and this hasn't
had any problems at all.
numerous times i can take the back off the rack and theres 4 iecs roaming
around inside. The DCX's still firmly in place.
|
I find QSC to be the worst as well (in terms of IEC's falling out)
I've had them come out event in a permanent rack. I've taken to
securing them very well and making sure there is definite pressure
holding them in.
I almost flew home from an install in the arctic before they told me
it wasn't working anymore.. turned out to be a loose power connector.
that would have been a very expensive service call.
Jason |
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Bob Urz
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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Jason Lavoie wrote:
| Quote: | QSC plx series are a PITA when it comes to IEC connectors. i've had to
fasten them all in now as they would work loose just from a bit of traveling
(admitedly on its back where the wheels are). 4 2402's for monitors and 2
3402 on high mid and hi for FOH. all come out.
I use a DCX2496 on the monitor rack to biamp the drum fill and this hasn't
had any problems at all.
numerous times i can take the back off the rack and theres 4 iecs roaming
around inside. The DCX's still firmly in place.
I find QSC to be the worst as well (in terms of IEC's falling out)
I've had them come out event in a permanent rack. I've taken to
securing them very well and making sure there is definite pressure
holding them in.
I almost flew home from an install in the arctic before they told me
it wasn't working anymore.. turned out to be a loose power connector.
that would have been a very expensive service call.
Jason
|
If there in a road rack in semi permanent position, a dab of silicon
sealer on the top of the connector when its firmly put in at the shop
should hold it. That's assuming you secure the cord too so the mass of
the cords banging around is not trying to tug it out. Kind of like
loctite on a bolt. That should not prevent it from being serviced
if you do it right.
Bob
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Gene Sweeny
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject:
Re: A night at the bar |
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|
Bob Urz wrote:
| Quote: | Jason Lavoie wrote:
QSC plx series are a PITA when it comes to IEC connectors. i've had to
fasten them all in now as they would work loose just from a bit of traveling
(admitedly on its back where the wheels are). 4 2402's for monitors and 2
3402 on high mid and hi for FOH. all come out.
I use a DCX2496 on the monitor rack to biamp the drum fill and this hasn't
had any problems at all.
numerous times i can take the back off the rack and theres 4 iecs roaming
around inside. The DCX's still firmly in place.
I find QSC to be the worst as well (in terms of IEC's falling out)
I've had them come out event in a permanent rack. I've taken to
securing them very well and making sure there is definite pressure
holding them in.
I almost flew home from an install in the arctic before they told me
it wasn't working anymore.. turned out to be a loose power connector.
that would have been a very expensive service call.
Jason
If there in a road rack in semi permanent position, a dab of silicon
sealer on the top of the connector when its firmly put in at the shop
should hold it. That's assuming you secure the cord too so the mass of
the cords banging around is not trying to tug it out. Kind of like
loctite on a bolt. That should not prevent it from being serviced
if you do it right.
Bob
|
I'm not fond of that method either. We did that to some of our racks
as a precaution (before we really even had trouble with the IEC
connectors). During a show, I had what seemed to be complete failure
of the board for a few seconds... loud pop, and none of the levels are
working now.
It turned out that the IEC plug that was on the back of our multi-track
recorder had worked it's way loose (it had some silcone glue on it).
The multi track was on the insert chain, so when it went down, it took
the mix with it. Anyway, I yanked the inserts and show goes on. As I
looked for the problem, I saw the recorder was off. after some trouble
shooting I determined it was the plug. I pushed it back in, but the
glue instantaneously pulled it back out. It would move about a
millimeter or so. My only theory is that the extreme temperature
swings here in the Northeast US caused the glue to expand and contract
while it was in the trailer. This happened to where it actually
worked it's way loose and then since it was in the "expanded" state, it
wouldn't plug back in.
Before the next gig, I quickly stripped the glue from ALL our IEC
connectors. Now, I just double check them before a show. I have a
half a mind to just JB weld them in there or use liquid nails.
There are IEC locking solutions out there, but they are around $5-10 a
piece. I probably have 20-30 things that use them. However, I'd
probably start with the single point of failure stuff and the PLX/RMX
amps I have. |
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