| Author |
Message |
Gordon Burditt
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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| Quote: | Yes, there is. 99% of the time, I don't watch live, but there
occasionally is a reason to.
Traffic, Weather, Breaking news stories, etc...
Yep, watch 'em if you want. Thus I reject the knee-jerk argument of "never
watch live tv".
It can be very frustrating trying to adjust your antenna for good
reception when you discover you're watching 10 minutes delayed.
Sometimes I watch a show live when the TiVo is busy recording
something else I also want to watch. Although dual tuners is
very nice, you can still have conflicts, and chances are 8 tuners
is not cost-effective, and I *still* might have conflicts.
Get a dual-tuner.
|
Are they even available at any price (buying two separate Tivos
doesn't count)? My source of TV reception is ANTENNA (including a
reasonable selection of digital channels). If it requires me to
pay for cable or DirecTV to use dual tuners for over-the-air
reception, it's too expensive.
| Quote: | It's also a more EXPENSIVE solution, if it's available at any
price.
Comes by default with DirecTV Tivos, not available for anything other than
HD capable units which are, as you point out, rather expensive at this
point. That and the monthly fee ($6) covers up to 8 total DirecTivos in the
household.
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Gordon L. Burditt
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:22 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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In article <6ICdnZaTjuvohsDeRVn-uQ@rogers.com>,
"tim@nocomment.com" <tim@nocomment.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "...Objections and counter-arguments
One common objection to the invocation of Godwin's law is that sometimes
using Hitler or the Nazis is a perfectly apt way of making a point. For
instance, if one is debating the relative merits of a particular leader,
and someone says something like, "He's a good leader, look at the way
he's improved the economy", one could reply, "Just because he improved
the economy doesn't make him a good leader. Even Hitler improved the
economy." Some would view this as a perfectly acceptable comparison. One
uses Hitler as a well-known example of an extreme case that requires no
explanation to prove that a generalization is not universally true..."
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Is it your contention that his use of the term "Nazi" fell under this
definition?
Wow.... |
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Joe Smith
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Gordon Burditt wrote:
| Quote: | Get a dual-tuner.
Are they even available at any price (buying two separate Tivos
doesn't count)? My source of TV reception is ANTENNA (including a
reasonable selection of digital channels). If it requires me to
pay for cable or DirecTV to use dual tuners for over-the-air
reception, it's too expensive.
|
In that case you would not like the HR10-250 HD recorder.
Although it does have two ATSC tuners for over-the-air HD+SD signals,
it cannot receive regular analog (NTSC) signals. The OTA
tuners cannot be used without first activating a DirecTV subscription. |
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Gordon Burditt
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:02 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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| Quote: | Get a dual-tuner.
Are they even available at any price (buying two separate Tivos
doesn't count)? My source of TV reception is ANTENNA (including a
reasonable selection of digital channels). If it requires me to
pay for cable or DirecTV to use dual tuners for over-the-air
reception, it's too expensive.
In that case you would not like the HR10-250 HD recorder.
Although it does have two ATSC tuners for over-the-air HD+SD signals,
it cannot receive regular analog (NTSC) signals.
|
This part doesn't bother me too much, and supposedly by 2009 it
won't bother anyone, as nobody will be transmitting NTSC. I can
get a reasonable number of ATSC channels now (although not quite
as many as the current NTSC broadcasters).
| Quote: | The OTA
tuners cannot be used without first activating a DirecTV subscription.
|
This is a killer problem.
Gordon L. Burditt |
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tim@nocomment.com
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:34 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
| Quote: | In article <6ICdnZaTjuvohsDeRVn-uQ@rogers.com>,
"tim@nocomment.com" <tim@nocomment.com> wrote:
"...Objections and counter-arguments
One common objection to the invocation of Godwin's law is that sometimes
using Hitler or the Nazis is a perfectly apt way of making a point. For
instance, if one is debating the relative merits of a particular leader,
and someone says something like, "He's a good leader, look at the way
he's improved the economy", one could reply, "Just because he improved
the economy doesn't make him a good leader. Even Hitler improved the
economy." Some would view this as a perfectly acceptable comparison. One
uses Hitler as a well-known example of an extreme case that requires no
explanation to prove that a generalization is not universally true..."
Is it your contention that his use of the term "Nazi" fell under this
definition?
Wow....
It is my contention that your continually trying to tell people what is |
an acceptable way of watching TV and what is not shows that you feel
freedom of choice is not acceptable and since that is what the Nazis and
other dictatorships seem to feel, there is that commonality between you
and the Nazis.
I, on the other hand, feel people should be able to watch TV how they
choose, if they choose, etc. which shares a commonality with what free
loving democracies' philosophy is regarding personal freedoms. |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:21 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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MegaZone (newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| Quote: | Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> shaped the electrons to say:
This statement will be 100% true for CableCard HD TiVo boxes as well, since
without cable, you would get no programming. So, even for a "generic"
device, it's a red herring.
Not really true since the CableCARD TiVo's are expected to have ATSC
tuners as well, like the DTV box, so you could use it without cable
just an an ATSC DVR - but you would need the TiVo service.
|
With two ATSC tuners, two digital cable tuners, one or two CableCard slots
(current spec has one card per tuner, but that might change by the time
TiVo hits market with their unit), a decent-sized hard drive, plus
factoring in the cost of the subscription, the current HR10-250 prices
are a steal even if you are "tied to DirecTV".
Then, too, even with CableCard a "standard", if the cable companies fight
enough, you might find that the TiVo-branded unit becomes "tied" to a very
few cable systems. Until Comcast (or some other very large company) starts
giving out CableCard boxes as "rental" units, I wouldn't trust the
reliability of a CableCard TiVo to record what I really can't stand to
miss.
Even after two-way CableCard becomes the norm for rental boxes, I still
wouldn't trust the CableCard part of the TiVo box...current CableCard
devices de-authorize for no good reason on a regular basis.
| Quote: | So, for the original poster, it's very unlikely we will ever see an OTA-
only HD PVR...they will all be tied to something else. A dumber DVR for
Well, we *have* seen them - at least one I can think of off-hand, the
Zenith model. And I think there were a couple of others, but I don't
believe there are any now - the Zenith box flopped, just not enough
interest in something that could record ONLY ATSC.
|
Which is exactly what I said. Unless it's really dumb (and the Zenith
unit wasn't completely dumb...it had some sort of guide available), it's
more expensive to build the interface than the hardware. For only a few
channels, it's not worth the trouble.
--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/Understaffed.gif |
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shawn
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:31:06 +0000 (UTC), newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org
(MegaZone) wrote:
| Quote: | Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> shaped the electrons to say:
This statement will be 100% true for CableCard HD TiVo boxes as well, since
without cable, you would get no programming. So, even for a "generic"
device, it's a red herring.
Not really true since the CableCARD TiVo's are expected to have ATSC
tuners as well, like the DTV box, so you could use it without cable
just an an ATSC DVR - but you would need the TiVo service.
|
I'm left wondering if I misunderstood Tivo's plan or if they just have
additional plans. Is Tivo going to be putting their interface on the
Motorola/SA boxes for Comcast's use or is the CableCard Tivo going to
be the Comcast solution. It seems like the CableCard Tivo solution
(with CC2.0) is the solution that allows any cable consumer to buy and
use the CCTivo on their cable system so it's not tied to Comcast.
Also if Tivo is going to be hosting their code on the Moto/SA boxes
what will that mean for the TV Guide Interface. There's been a good
deal of work on that interface over the years so it seems unlikely
they would just drop it for the DVR solution since that ends up with
them supporting two different interfaces depending on the type of box
the consumer has instead of what I would guess is just an enhanced TV
Guide interface with a current Motorola DVR on a Comcast system.
Can someone set me straight as to what is planned? |
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Scott Seligman
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:19 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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nanoflower@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Also if Tivo is going to be hosting their code on the Moto/SA boxes
what will that mean for the TV Guide Interface. There's been a good
deal of work on that interface over the years so it seems unlikely they
would just drop it for the DVR solution since that ends up with them
supporting two different interfaces depending on the type of box the
consumer has instead of what I would guess is just an enhanced TV Guide
interface with a current Motorola DVR on a Comcast system.
|
It's not as unlikely as it may seem. In Washington state, for instance,
Comcast has been rolling out a new software package from Microsoft.
While it doesn't appear their final goal is to support two software
packages based on user preference (they're slowly remotely changing out
the software state-wide), it does go to show they seem willing to ditch
the TV Guide interface.
| Quote: | Can someone set me straight as to what is planned?
|
I had heard that the plan was to do the same basic thing with TiVo, only
giving the user a choice, partly because the TiVo software will cost the
user a bit more per month. I can't find anything to back that up now, so
I might be imagining that.
--
<script language="JavaScript">// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i<73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode(("lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
"~}Rvvrxv~Q}gx~}lz~wmwiqz|sq~tuBpNpzyvp@Lu[").charCodeAt(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
"#+##*)E!#-*1*1*$)*)+,:*$4!,.0.c0/!@R)cM8-$$=4=").charCodeAt(i)+32));</script> |
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jolt
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:42 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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| Quote: |
Then, too, even with CableCard a "standard", if the cable companies fight
enough, you might find that the TiVo-branded unit becomes "tied" to a very
few cable systems. Until Comcast (or some other very large company)
starts
giving out CableCard boxes as "rental" units, I wouldn't trust the
reliability of a CableCard TiVo to record what I really can't stand to
miss.
|
The cable cards are supplied by the cable company, and hopefully as techs
and the headend becomes more friendly to a new technology things will
improve. At this time with a 1st generation produce that has such a small
market, it comes as no surprise that cable card deployment has meet with
it's share of gremlins. TVio's contract with Comcast will foster R&D money
to bring a compeling product to market just as they did for DTV. I hope it
also leads to a TVio that will works OTA or cable card and will provide
trouble free operation. This is in the interest of all involved and most
importantly the cable provider.
| Quote: | Even after two-way CableCard becomes the norm for rental boxes, I still
wouldn't trust the CableCard part of the TiVo box...current CableCard
devices de-authorize for no good reason on a regular basis.
|
What would compel you to believe that the problems presented in a 1st
generation cable card would carry over into the second generation. Imo one
way communication may foster are in part be the cause of droped connections.
| Quote: | Which is exactly what I said. Unless it's really dumb (and the Zenith
unit wasn't completely dumb...it had some sort of guide available), it's
more expensive to build the interface than the hardware. For only a few
channels, it's not worth the trouble.
--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/Understaffed.gif |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:49 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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jolt (ergoacess@yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| Quote: | The cable cards are supplied by the cable company, and hopefully as techs
and the headend becomes more friendly to a new technology things will
improve. At this time with a 1st generation produce that has such a small
market, it comes as no surprise that cable card deployment has meet with
it's share of gremlins.
|
One of these gremlins is that the card isn't 100% compatible with the
device, which leads to finger-pointing and passing the buck on who is to
blame. I don't see this *ever* stopping, since the standard cable company
practice for such things is to just replace everything. This works great
for rental items, but I don't think people will replace their TVs or third-
party DVRs every time the cable company does something to break them.
| Quote: | What would compel you to believe that the problems presented in a 1st
generation cable card would carry over into the second generation.
|
Because the current generation of DVRs (and even plain old cable boxes)
supplied by the cable companies have these same sorts of problems, because
the solution has always been "replace the broken box" instead of "find out
*why* the box is 'broken'".
It's not just the cable companies, though. DirecTV is just as bad ("unplug
your receiver"). One of the primary reasons that TiVo is a great choice
for many is that repairs are possible without involving the provider.
--
Jeff Rife | "You keep using that word. I do not think it
| means what you think it means."
|
| -- Inigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride" |
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Peter Kelly
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:12 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
| Quote: | In article <BF82407F.2C038%ghost_topper@hotmail.com>,
George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
You REALLY need to slow down and smell the roses, Elmo.
The commercials are roses?
Geez, what world do you live in?
A world a lot less anal than yours, I guess.
Obsessive compulsive behavior and a Type A personality leads to early
medical problems. Like I said, and another poster pointed out: Lighten up
and live well.
Accept the commercials when the technology allows me never to even see
them?
Is that what you mean by "lighten up"?
Well, I'm not speaking for George, but he may have meant that you should |
spend a lot less time worrying about what others are doing.
I, for one, will make sure that I spend more time than normal watching
'live' teevee over the next few days, knowing how much it grates your poor
soul.
Honestly, I don't care how anyone else watches teevee, if it's in the
privacy of their own home. I wonder why others do.
Peter
--
When responding by email, please change the no-spam to disco.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Spam really sucks. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:19 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <QsWdnfJQa4L_qsDeRVn-tQ@rogers.com>,
"tim@nocomment.com" <tim@nocomment.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Is it your contention that his use of the term "Nazi" fell under this
definition?
Wow....
It is my contention that your continually trying to tell people what is
an acceptable way of watching TV and what is not shows that you feel
freedom of choice is not acceptable and since that is what the Nazis and
other dictatorships seem to feel, there is that commonality between you
and the Nazis.
|
And it's that attitude which spawned Godwin's Law and the corollaries
thereof.
Like I said, thread closed--by definition. |
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Peter Kelly
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
| Quote: | In article <6ICdnZeTjusIh8DeRVn-uQ@rogers.com>,
"tim@nocomment.com" <tim@nocomment.com> wrote:
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with
the motive of ending the thread.
The difference is, I didn't raise the comparison. He did.
He did without the motive of ending the thread. Therefore, by
definition, thread over.
|
and yet you keep posting....
--
When responding by email, please change the no-spam to disco.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Spam really sucks. |
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wkearney99
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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| Quote: | The cable cards are supplied by the cable company, and hopefully as techs
and the headend becomes more friendly to a new technology things will
improve.
|
You must be kidding. That ain't ever gonna happen. In the decades cable
companies have been in business they've been woefully inept at becoming
knowledgeable, let alone friendly. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <EMadnS9RQrMT48LeRVn-2A@speakeasy.net>,
"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In the decades cable
companies have been in business they've been woefully inept at becoming
knowledgeable, let alone friendly.
|
You should have seen Time Warner around here change their tune back in
97 or so, as Ameritech blasted through (like Sherman through Georgia)
putting up their own cable for their Americast cable TV network.
TW had never, EVER had real competition. But for some reason, Ameritech
decided to do it.
TW changed their tune literally overnight. It was amazing to watch.
They changed their network to be better (stayed digital over a longer
patch, not as much analog to degrade) and added cable modem. They
dumped the cable box requirement--a HUGE issue with me. (That was
because Americast came in without a cable box requirement. Ah,
competition...)
Then Ameritech got out of the business and sold the Americast network to
Wide Open West out of Colorado. Time Warner got cocky again. WOW came
to me with great prices and a great channel lineup; when I called TW to
see what they could do for me, as a long time customer, they were back
to their old selves again. They were rude to me, they lied on the
phone, they slung mud, they acted like WOW wasn't going to cause them
any pain. I called them at least 3 times, and three different people
gave me the exact same treatment. Unbelievable. They really thought
the wired competition would cause them no pain.
Wrong. I and at least a dozen other people I know of took up WOW on
their offer, and switched.
A year later TW came knocking on the door. Literally. They were going
door to door to people they knew had left the TW service for something
else--anything else (wired or satellite). This woman couldn't have been
more apologetic; she admitted that the local TW operation had screwed up
big time by going back to its old ways, and she was begging for my
business back.
She was very nice, but I declined.
A year after that (about 6-9 months ago), a co-worker of mine (with WOW
service) told me that TW came knocking on his door. Their offer:
digital service plus HD DVR plus 6 megabit broadband internet
for....ready for this? I didn't believe it.....$70/month.
He snatched it up immediately. No kidding. He had HDTVs at the time,
and I didn't, so I had no need to move. But that was a great price.
I think I can get that price today.
And at the end of last year, WOW sent me a letter saying my price was
going up. I called and asked them to reconsider. I had to call twice;
the second time, I got a nice woman who agreed to reconsider. That's
why my price for 80 analog channels and 6 megabit broadband is $59.
Wired competition is great. And every month I get a little chuckle
knowing that Time Warner doesn't have my business. When the (relatively
speaking) little guy can offer the same product for less, why should I
let the big guy have my business? Let him sweat and fight for it. |
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