| Author |
Message |
mango masher
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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All I want for Xmas is a HD PVR that can record one hd channel while I
watch another. One that would pull the tv guide ratings from the PBS
channel or whatever. One that would be free of charges to use, since I
just want to record ota. One that would be easy to use, like tivo.
I have the moxi by charter, but my stupid cable provider does not get
all ota hd channels., notably ABC in St louis.
I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
I guess it would need two OTA HD tuners to accomplish that. a 250 gig
hd would be nice.
PC/Internet networkable would be a big plus.
Is there a market for this?
Mango
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Company Man
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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"mango masher" <mangomasher@puny.net> wrote in message
news:zGA6f.15759$E17.11051@fe03.lga...
| Quote: | I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
|
VCR's accomplish this by passing the antenna signal through to your
televison's tuner. Does your TV have an HD tuner? |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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A small market, yes. It is growing, but still small - which is why
you don't see solutions out there now. As the market grows, more
vendors will offer solutions.
TiVo's standalone HD box is planned for mid-2006, but it wouldn't meet
your reqirements since you'll have to have a TiVo subscription,
monthly or lifetime.
There are a few ATSC OTA-only DVRs, but they're all single tuner. The
TiVo unit is planned to be ATSC and CableCARD, with 4 tuners - 2 in
use at any one time, like the HDTV DirecTV TiVo.
But you need to understand that 'OTA' means no cable - when a local
channel is carried in your cable, it is no longer OTA. OTA means
you're using an antenna. If you want to record real OTA signals, you
need a DVR with an ATSC tuner. If you want to record HD off of your
cable, then you need a DVR with CableCARD.
Zenith used to make an OTA-only HD DVR, but they dropped it - it
didn't sell well. People just aren't interested in OTA-only, most
people get their TV from cable or satellite. TiVo had an OTA-only HD
prototype on display in early 2004, I think even 2003, but no one was
interesting in licensing it and TiVo themselves said the market was
insufficient to bother producing it themselves.
The ability to record OTA ATSC doesn't have enough demand for
standalone products, you'll see it more on systems that do something
else too - satellite+ATSC or CableCard+ATSC. That's a much larger
market.
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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In article <zGA6f.15759$E17.11051@fe03.lga>,
mango masher <mangomasher@puny.net> wrote:
| Quote: | All I want for Xmas is a HD PVR that can record one hd channel while I
watch another.
|
Sony. |
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agentxfile
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Who wouldn't like to have either a Tivo or a ReplayTV unit that can
record HD signals, and I would also like to have either a Tivo or a
ReplayTV unit that can also record anything but 2-channel sound/audio,
so something like 5.1/6.1/7.1 in Dolby/DTS/THX sound/audio would be
really nice and/or great to have!
agentxfile
mango masher wrote:
| Quote: | All I want for Xmas is a HD PVR that can record one hd channel while I
watch another. One that would pull the tv guide ratings from the PBS
channel or whatever. One that would be free of charges to use, since
I just want to record ota. One that would be easy to use, like tivo.
I have the moxi by charter, but my stupid cable provider does not get
all ota hd channels., notably ABC in St louis.
I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
I guess it would need two OTA HD tuners to accomplish that. a 250 gig
hd would be nice.
PC/Internet networkable would be a big plus.
Is there a market for this?
Mango |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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In article <zGA6f.15759$E17.11051@fe03.lga>,
mango masher <mangomasher@puny.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
|
ummm......wait a minute.
You DO realize, don't you, that VCRs don't do anything special to allow
you to watch one thing while you're recording another?
All the VCR does is turn off its video. This allows you to use your
TV's tuner to do whatever you want with.
With the Sony HD PVR, same thing. You're talking about OTA, right? So
split your antenna feed into two legs: one into the PVR, and one into
the TV.
The Sony PVR uses its own tuner to choose and record a channel. While
it's doing that, you simply watch TV using your TV's tuner.
Two tuners. Two shows--one on the PVR, one to the screen. It's that
simple. And that's exactly how the VCR works, too. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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In article <zGA6f.15759$E17.11051@fe03.lga>,
mango masher <mangomasher@puny.net> wrote:
| Quote: | All I want for Xmas is a HD PVR that can record one hd channel while I
watch another. One that would pull the tv guide ratings from the PBS
channel or whatever. One that would be free of charges to use, since I
just want to record ota. One that would be easy to use, like tivo.
|
like I said, Sony. |
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mango masher
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
| Quote: | In article <zGA6f.15759$E17.11051@fe03.lga>,
mango masher <mangomasher@puny.net> wrote:
I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
ummm......wait a minute.
You DO realize, don't you, that VCRs don't do anything special to allow
you to watch one thing while you're recording another?
All the VCR does is turn off its video. This allows you to use your
TV's tuner to do whatever you want with.
With the Sony HD PVR, same thing. You're talking about OTA, right? So
split your antenna feed into two legs: one into the PVR, and one into
the TV.
The Sony PVR uses its own tuner to choose and record a channel. While
it's doing that, you simply watch TV using your TV's tuner.
Two tuners. Two shows--one on the PVR, one to the screen. It's that
simple. And that's exactly how the VCR works, too.
Yes, however it would be nice to deal with just one interface for ease |
of use. With the above set up you would have to switch video modes from
the sony input to the stb input.
However, its a interesting solution.
Mango |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
|
|
On 2005-10-23, agentxfile <nospam@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
mango masher wrote:
All I want for Xmas is a HD PVR that can record one hd channel while I
watch another. One that would pull the tv guide ratings from the PBS
channel or whatever. One that would be free of charges to use, since
I just want to record ota. One that would be easy to use, like tivo.
I have the moxi by charter, but my stupid cable provider does not get
all ota hd channels., notably ABC in St louis.
I have hear of the sony hd dvr but you can't watch one channel while
recording another...(how dumb is that?, vcr's have done that for years).
I guess it would need two OTA HD tuners to accomplish that. a 250 gig
hd would be nice.
PC/Internet networkable would be a big plus.
Is there a market for this?
Who wouldn't like to have either a Tivo or a ReplayTV unit that can
record HD signals, and I would also like to have either a Tivo or a
ReplayTV unit that can also record anything but 2-channel sound/audio,
so something like 5.1/6.1/7.1 in Dolby/DTS/THX sound/audio would be
really nice and/or great to have!
|
The DirecTV HR10-250 TiVo does almost everything you want. Only piece you
might not like is it requires a monthly charge.
--
This is my .sig |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <newscache$c7osoi$05t1$1@sidehack.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:
| Quote: | TiVo's standalone HD box is planned for mid-2006, but it wouldn't meet
your reqirements since you'll have to have a TiVo subscription,
monthly or lifetime.
|
Well, now, hang on a second. If he pays once, up front, for a
"subscription," then it's not a subscription. It's a one-time payment
for service forever.
That's not a subscription. That simply reflects the true cost of the
device. Tivo marketing makes you think that you're getting the box for
$50 or free or whatever, as long as you simply pay them $12.95/month
forever. But they also let you pay $50 for the box plus $300 for the
lifetime service on that box, which means you pay $350 for the Tivo.
So he can have his cake and eat it too. He just has to ignore the $50
box purchase number he may see, because it doesn't reflect the true
up-front purchase price. Only the box + lifetime service price total
reflects the true up-front purchase price.
Sold that way, compare the Tivo cost to the Sony cost.
At least Tivo gives you the option. Sony doesn't; they charge $1000,
period. It includes all your programming service. Many people won't do
that; they'd rather pay $12.95/month for the rest of their lives and pay
next to nothing for the box itself. These are the same people who move
to new houses every 3 years and lease new cars every 3 years; they've
conditioned themselves to the idea that they will have monthly payments
for the rest of their lives. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <newscache$c7osoi$05t1$1@sidehack.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:
| Quote: | Zenith used to make an OTA-only HD DVR, but they dropped it - it
didn't sell well. People just aren't interested in OTA-only, most
people get their TV from cable or satellite.
|
What's interesting is that with the box watching TV for you, you really
no longer need cable or satellite. When you sit down to watch TV,
there's always something on.
Consider that that was why people got cable and satellite to begin with:
more channels to increase the odds of having something on when you want
to watch, or having enough available to fill the hours you want to watch
TV. But with the box doing it for you, and with the limited number of
hours in a day you have for watching TV, chances are very good that OTA
reception gives you enough programming to cover yourself.
Especially if the box has two tuners, or if the box is cheap enough and
has the very cool networking capability like ReplayTV has. |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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| Quote: | ummm......wait a minute.
You DO realize, don't you, that VCRs don't do anything special to
allow you to watch one thing while you're recording another?
All the VCR does is turn off its video. This allows you to use your
TV's tuner to do whatever you want with.
With the Sony HD PVR, same thing. You're talking about OTA, right?
So split your antenna feed into two legs: one into the PVR, and one
into the TV.
The Sony PVR uses its own tuner to choose and record a channel. While
it's doing that, you simply watch TV using your TV's tuner.
Two tuners. Two shows--one on the PVR, one to the screen. It's that
simple. And that's exactly how the VCR works, too.
Yes, however it would be nice to deal with just one interface for ease
of use. With the above set up you would have to switch video modes from
the sony input to the stb input.
However, its a interesting solution.
Mango
|
You also lose all the *other* features you've gotten used to provided by
the DVR (but not by a VCR). Like live pause, replay, 30 second skip,
etc. 2 included tuners is a much more flexible, elegant solution.
Split feeds are a temporary workaround only.
Randy S. |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
| Quote: | In article <newscache$c7osoi$05t1$1@sidehack.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:
Zenith used to make an OTA-only HD DVR, but they dropped it - it
didn't sell well. People just aren't interested in OTA-only, most
people get their TV from cable or satellite.
What's interesting is that with the box watching TV for you, you really
no longer need cable or satellite. When you sit down to watch TV,
there's always something on.
Consider that that was why people got cable and satellite to begin with:
more channels to increase the odds of having something on when you want
to watch, or having enough available to fill the hours you want to watch
TV. But with the box doing it for you, and with the limited number of
hours in a day you have for watching TV, chances are very good that OTA
reception gives you enough programming to cover yourself.
Especially if the box has two tuners, or if the box is cheap enough and
has the very cool networking capability like ReplayTV has.
|
Well, I agree w/ most of what you said (and MZ as well of course), but I
can't agree here. Most of the country doesn't get many OTA HD stations
yet, so there isn't much to record. In my area I get PBS perfectly
(University station), CBS very well (yay for College football games and
March Madness!), ABC w/ great difficulty (they are broadcasting at very
low testing levels), Fox in SD only (we have the only O&O Fox station
*not* in HD in the country), and no NBC at *all*. Much less all the
non-locally broadcasted channels like HBO, TNT, TBS, etc, etc, etc.
An OTA DVR wouldn't really help w/ choice if only OTA was available.
You need more available programming for that. I believe a DVR helps
more with *schedules* then with choice.
Randy S. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:30 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <djftsn$ec2a$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu>,
"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You also lose all the *other* features you've gotten used to provided by
the DVR (but not by a VCR). Like live pause, replay, 30 second skip,
etc.
|
You miss the ENTIRE point of a PVR.
You never watch live. Never. There's absolutely NO point in watching
live.
WORST case, you wait 20 minutes into an hour show (or an hour into a 3
hour sports show) and start watching it, recorded from the beginning.
This gives you a buffer for skipping commercials.
You gain an hour of your life back--and by the time you've skipped the
commercials, what you're watching is ending at the same time it's ending
live.
I really, truly don't understand anyone who has a PVR and who wants to
watch TV "live". And if you're watching "live," then you don't HAVE the
30 second skip. That's for recorded material only.
A PVR is for watching TV on your schedule. Even if you want to watch it
"live," you record it and start watching late so you can use the 30
second skip and commercial advance and whatnot. You'll still end
watching it as the show ends, so you can immediately discuss it with
your friends if you want--but you will have had the luxury of doing
something else for awhile before you start watching, as well as having
skipped all the commercials.
| Quote: | 2 included tuners is a much more flexible, elegant solution.
Split feeds are a temporary workaround only.
|
Nope. See above. |
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Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject:
Re: a simple request... an OTA HD PVR |
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|
In article <djfuqn$ec2m$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu>,
"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Most of the country doesn't get many OTA HD stations
yet, so there isn't much to record.
|
With even 5 channels, when they're running 24/7 there's more than enough
to provide you with the hours needed to fill your TV viewing time. I
mean, there are only so many hours in the day. How many hours can you
watch TV?
With 5 OTA channels, there are 120 hours/day of programming. Let's say
you can watch 5 hours/day of TV. I cannot imagine that there aren't 5
hours/day out of those 120 that contain something you want to watch.
| Quote: | I believe a DVR helps
more with *schedules* then with choice.
|
It helps with both. |
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