| Author |
Message |
Joseph S. Powell, III
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:27 am Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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"Nick Macpherson" <NMacphe421@AOL.com> wrote in message
news:1129811625.445058.73920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Derek Janssen wrote:
moviePig wrote:
Jay G. wrote:
Black Locust <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote:
Widescreen DVDs spread - Along with wider TV sets
By Susanne Ault
A representative of specialty retailer Tower reports noting an
uptick
of about 5% in widescreen purchases over the past year, though the
broadest releases such as Buena Vista Home Entertainment's Oct. 4
Cinderella still sell 75% in fullscreen versions.
Actually, in the speicifc case of Cinderella, 100% of the purchases
are
"fullscreen", as the 4:3 ratio is the original movie ratio of the
film, and
thus the only option available on DVD.
Not at all. For us "connoiseurs", there's a version with *four* black
bars...
Yes, but the article citing was to be meant in the traditional a.v.d
spirit of "Why won't Warner release the widescreen 'Gone With the
Wind'?--Sign my petition!" ;)
Stanley Kubrick preferred 4:3 to widescreen but if he was alive today
he'd realize he was wrong so we need the Kubrick DVDs re-released in
widescreen no matter what his family says.
|
But Kubrick shot his films (with the exception of 2001) in 4:3 ratio, so if
these were to be re-released in Widescreen, we really WOULD be missing
material that the director intended to be seen.
That's not to say that I don't wish Kubrick would have embraced Widescreen
at the time he filmed them, it's just that in this case it really would be
slapping black bars over the screen - we wouldn't be gaining anything, and
Widescreen advocacy has always been about gaining the missing material on
the sides that's missing with Pan & Scan.
But Kubricks 4:3 films are 4:3 matted, not pan & scan.
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moviePig
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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Joseph S. Powell, III wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick Macpherson" <NMacphe421@AOL.com> wrote in message
news:1129811625.445058.73920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Derek Janssen wrote:
moviePig wrote:
Jay G. wrote:
Black Locust <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote:
Widescreen DVDs spread - Along with wider TV sets
By Susanne Ault
A representative of specialty retailer Tower reports noting an
uptick
of about 5% in widescreen purchases over the past year, though the
broadest releases such as Buena Vista Home Entertainment's Oct. 4
Cinderella still sell 75% in fullscreen versions.
Actually, in the speicifc case of Cinderella, 100% of the purchases
are
"fullscreen", as the 4:3 ratio is the original movie ratio of the
film, and
thus the only option available on DVD.
Not at all. For us "connoiseurs", there's a version with *four* black
bars...
Yes, but the article citing was to be meant in the traditional a.v.d
spirit of "Why won't Warner release the widescreen 'Gone With the
Wind'?--Sign my petition!" ;)
Stanley Kubrick preferred 4:3 to widescreen but if he was alive today
he'd realize he was wrong so we need the Kubrick DVDs re-released in
widescreen no matter what his family says.
But Kubrick shot his films (with the exception of 2001) in 4:3 ratio, so if
these were to be re-released in Widescreen, we really WOULD be missing
material that the director intended to be seen.
That's not to say that I don't wish Kubrick would have embraced Widescreen
at the time he filmed them, it's just that in this case it really would be
slapping black bars over the screen - we wouldn't be gaining anything, and
Widescreen advocacy has always been about gaining the missing material on
the sides that's missing with Pan & Scan.
But Kubricks 4:3 films are 4:3 matted, not pan & scan.
|
Regardless of what image is on the original "negative", what matters (at
least to this letterbox zealot) is to see exactly the content as
released. E.g., if there's a vertical pan to some sort of reveal, it's
(ideally) cut to present/remove its compositional elements at the proper
instant, to the nearest 24th-second... and subsequent re-matteing
interferes with that meticulous timing and flow. Even if that and more
subtle examples happen infrequently, why mess with them?
--
/---------------------------\
| YOUR taste at work... |
| |
| http://www.moviepig.com |
\---------------------------/ |
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Nick Macpherson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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Joseph S. Powell, III wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick Macpherson" <NMacphe421@AOL.com> wrote in message
news:1129811625.445058.73920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Derek Janssen wrote:
moviePig wrote:
Jay G. wrote:
Black Locust <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote:
Widescreen DVDs spread - Along with wider TV sets
By Susanne Ault
A representative of specialty retailer Tower reports noting an
uptick
of about 5% in widescreen purchases over the past year, though the
broadest releases such as Buena Vista Home Entertainment's Oct. 4
Cinderella still sell 75% in fullscreen versions.
Actually, in the speicifc case of Cinderella, 100% of the purchases
are
"fullscreen", as the 4:3 ratio is the original movie ratio of the
film, and
thus the only option available on DVD.
Not at all. For us "connoiseurs", there's a version with *four* black
bars...
Yes, but the article citing was to be meant in the traditional a.v.d
spirit of "Why won't Warner release the widescreen 'Gone With the
Wind'?--Sign my petition!" ;)
Stanley Kubrick preferred 4:3 to widescreen but if he was alive today
he'd realize he was wrong so we need the Kubrick DVDs re-released in
widescreen no matter what his family says.
But Kubrick shot his films (with the exception of 2001) in 4:3 ratio, so if
these were to be re-released in Widescreen, we really WOULD be missing
material that the director intended to be seen.
That's not to say that I don't wish Kubrick would have embraced Widescreen
at the time he filmed them, it's just that in this case it really would be
slapping black bars over the screen - we wouldn't be gaining anything, and
Widescreen advocacy has always been about gaining the missing material on
the sides that's missing with Pan & Scan.
But Kubricks 4:3 films are 4:3 matted, not pan & scan.
|
I was being sarcastic but some DVD geeks have suggested letter-boxing
Kubrick's films regardles of his wishes or his family's wishes so I'm
not making that part up.
I just think it's funny that the DVD geeks drew this line in the sand
between them and the "Joe Six Packs" of the world who preferred full
frame to widescreen, and now the Joe Six Packs of the world are
embracing letterboxing because of cheap widescreen tvs, and that was
going to happen all along, everyone knew that, the DVD geeks have lost
the one thing that made them superior to the rabble, because while the
DVD geeks wanted to see something like Day After Tomorrow in the OAR,
dammit, poor old Joe Six Pack, who's watching movies for a couple hours
of escapism every now and then, wanted to watch Day After Tomorrow in
full frame. But the war is won and now the geeks (who aren't seeing
the films as "the director intended" no matter what they say because
they're not seeing them in theaters) don't know how else to feel smug
now they don't have that widescreen vs. full frame thing going on
anymore.
And I'm sympathetic to Kubrick's 4:3 preference (which some people have
said comes from his experience as a photographer). It worked fine
during Hollywood's golden age. Like George Stevens said, widescreen is
only good for shooting the Last Supper. That's an overstatement but
the automatic assumption that there's something wrong with 4:3 is just
as simplistic. |
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Richard C.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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X-No-archive: yes
"Black Locust" <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bl2112-473727.21380220102005@news.uswest.net...
| Quote: | In article <15Q5f.23478$U51.18508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote:
Acceptance of DVD = acceptance of widescreen.
Most DVD movie releases are widescreen.
Most are also released in full screen, unfortunately.
|
====================================
I keep wondering how long they can continue to use that term!
It is misleading, and it is a lie.
They package should clearly state that the movie is either in OAR or it is
not.
It should also state what the OAR was.
Fullscreen is just not fullscreen on any 16:9 set.
Deceptive packaging. |
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moviePig
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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Nick Macpherson wrote:
| Quote: | ... I'm sympathetic to Kubrick's 4:3 preference (which some people have
said comes from his experience as a photographer). It worked fine
during Hollywood's golden age. Like George Stevens said, widescreen is
only good for shooting the Last Supper. That's an overstatement but
the automatic assumption that there's something wrong with 4:3 is just
as simplistic.
|
Did you know that human eye physiology accommodates lateral scanning
much more readily than it does vertical... while a rodent's eye is much
more given to vertical scanning, presumably owing to the threat of
airborne predators? Of course you didn't, because I'm making it up.
But I'd still bet there's a noticeable horizontal bias to the visual
field. Anyone knowledgeable nearby?
--
/---------------------------\
| YOUR taste at work... |
| |
| http://www.moviepig.com |
\---------------------------/ |
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David Z
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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"Black Locust" <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bl2112-473727.21380220102005@news.uswest.net...
| Quote: | In article <15Q5f.23478$U51.18508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote:
Acceptance of DVD = acceptance of widescreen.
Most DVD movie releases are widescreen.
Most are also released in full screen, unfortunately.
|
Have never seen these. I remember in DVDs early days, often a DVD would
have both (one on each side), but I assumed they stopped doing this due to
lack of demand. |
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John Harkness
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:54:09 GMT, "David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Black Locust" <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bl2112-473727.21380220102005@news.uswest.net...
In article <15Q5f.23478$U51.18508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote:
Acceptance of DVD = acceptance of widescreen.
Most DVD movie releases are widescreen.
Most are also released in full screen, unfortunately.
Have never seen these. I remember in DVDs early days, often a DVD would
have both (one on each side), but I assumed they stopped doing this due to
lack of demand.
|
more and more are widescreen only, but most of the big studio pictures
come in both -- with the note that they have gotten better about
labelling the aspect ratio on the front of the box.
John Harkness |
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Stephen Cooke
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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As far as Kubrick goes, he shot in open Academy Ratio (with the exception,
as noted, of 2001 and, as not so noted, Spartacus) with the knowledge that
they would be projected at 1.66:1 matted in Europe and 1.85:1 in North
America. (I have no idea how they were projected in other parts of the
world. But he also knew that they would also be shown on TV and,
eventually home video, so he kept this in mind while shooting.
So ostensibly, there are three different aspect ratios at which you could
watch a Kubrick title, and none of them are technically incorrect. I doubt
any of his films were ever projected in a theatre at the squareish Academy
Ratio.
I don't know how it looks on DVD, but on the Criterion laserdisc, Dr.
Strangelove was shown full frame, but several of the shots (usually
process shots) had in-camera mattes in them, indicating that while the
bulk of the film was shot full frame, that wasn't necessarily how Kubrick
expected it to be shown. In fact, in one amusing instance, a shot of Slim
Pickens riding the bomb actually moves *over* the black bar at the bottom
of the screen.
swac |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:07:54 -0700, Richard C. wrote:
| Quote: | I keep wondering how long they can continue to use that term! It is
misleading, and it is a lie.
They package should clearly state that the movie is either in OAR or it is
not.
It should also state what the OAR was.
|
Agree 100%! "Fullscreen" means nothing when the shape of the screen is not
specified.
| Quote: | Fullscreen is just not fullscreen on any 16:9 set. Deceptive packaging.
|
Also agree. As a matter of fact, I remember once at Blockbusters almost
grabbing the wrong version because I momentarily took "fullscreen"
literaly with repsct to my 9x16. |
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Nick Macpherson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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|
David Z wrote:
| Quote: | "Black Locust" <bl2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bl2112-473727.21380220102005@news.uswest.net...
In article <15Q5f.23478$U51.18508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote:
Acceptance of DVD = acceptance of widescreen.
Most DVD movie releases are widescreen.
Most are also released in full screen, unfortunately.
Have never seen these. I remember in DVDs early days, often a DVD would
have both (one on each side), but I assumed they stopped doing this due to
lack of demand.
|
A lot of times the full screen version would show more visual
information than the widescreen original, making for an interesting
reference point. For instance, De Palma's Body Double, where you can
see more Barbara Crampton nudity in the beginning of the film in the
full screen version than the widescreen version, which is nice though a
true widescreen DVD purist would no doubt avert his head and say
noooooooooo, Brian De Palma never intended the viewer to see that much
nakedness. |
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NunYa Bidness
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:08 am Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:19:08 GMT, "Lincoln Spector"
<Notreally@myemailaddress.com> Gave us:
Nice link, Lincoln... :-] |
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moviePig
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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NunYa Bidness wrote:
Son of a gun... yes! Hard to tear myself away...
--
/---------------------------\
| YOUR taste at work... |
| |
| http://www.moviepig.com |
\---------------------------/ |
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TheFug.
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:03:45 -0400, Rich <none@none.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:49:31 -0600, Black Locust <bl2112@hotmail.com
wrote:
While I still think the "I need a widescreen TV in order to watch
widescreen DVDs." argument is utter bullshit largely perpetrated by Joe
Sixpacks who hate the "black bars," this news is still a good sign of
things to come..
Finally, the dumbass bastards are realizing their new TV sets are WS.
Thats the only reason for a shift on DVDs.
Stupid luddite sheep.
-Rich
|
The nice thing is, the that the widescreen format came into the
theaters, after the tv came into the livingroom, just to lure the
people out their houses, so people come into the theatres, to
experience a more lively experience, so ...WS is there because of TV ! |
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John Doe II
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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I've never understood why anyone would rent/buy a movie DVD that wasn't in
the origional format. |
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Bill Vermillion
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Acceptance of Widescreen DVDs is Growing |
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|
In article <r2cdm1p3d2rsavkskoardcgh8ao5800jjp@4ax.com>,
TheFug. <nospam@plea.se> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:03:45 -0400, Rich <none@none.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:49:31 -0600, Black Locust <bl2112@hotmail.com
wrote:
While I still think the "I need a widescreen TV in order to watch
widescreen DVDs." argument is utter bullshit largely perpetrated by Joe
Sixpacks who hate the "black bars," this news is still a good sign of
things to come..
Finally, the dumbass bastards are realizing their new TV sets are WS.
Thats the only reason for a shift on DVDs.
Stupid luddite sheep.
-Rich
The nice thing is, the that the widescreen format came into the
theaters, after the tv came into the livingroom, just to lure the
people out their houses, so people come into the theatres, to
experience a more lively experience, so ...WS is there because of TV !
|
To be technically correct you should say widescreen came back to
the theatres to lure people away from their TV.
The depression which grew strong with the stock market crash of
1929 killed the nacent wide-screen industry before it got much of a
start. Fox released two in their 70MM Grandeur format - one of
which is the first movie John Wayne had a leading part in - The Big
Trail. The wide-screen version is shown now and then on Fox Movie
Channel.
Who knows what would have happened if the depression had not come
and movies started all being wide in that era. Perhaps TV would be
wide too.
Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com |
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