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Message |
Jordan Gilman
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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(1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD portions of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not be
on the regular CD?
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Kalman Rubinson
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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On 20 Oct 2005 02:09:34 GMT, "Harry Lavo" <hlavo@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Jordan Gilman" <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:dj4eim0dan@news3.newsguy.com...
(1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD portions
of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not be
on the regular CD?
The only "audiophile" treatment they get is generally to be remastered using
audiophile-quality care by the remastering engineers. The engineers often
go back to the original multitrack tapes or mixdown tapes, rather than the
commercial masters. Then often they use DSD as the mixing medium,
completely bypassing PCM (of course, this is not the case with many of them,
especially pop which may have been recorded in digital). The very finest
in sound, it is generally acknowledged, are those modern-day recordings that
are recorded in DSD from the beginning (these are mostly but not completely
classical). Even on the CD layer, these sound exceptionally good (for CD).
|
That is the general case. However, there are instances in which the
CD layer is still an older unremastered version. In the case of the
MLPs, that's to permit comparison with the original Wilma Cozart
versions. In other cases, it was laziness or sloppiness.
Kal |
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Harry Lavo
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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"Jordan Gilman" <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:dj4eim0dan@news3.newsguy.com...
| Quote: | (1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD portions
of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not be
on the regular CD?
|
The only "audiophile" treatment they get is generally to be remastered using
audiophile-quality care by the remastering engineers. The engineers often
go back to the original multitrack tapes or mixdown tapes, rather than the
commercial masters. Then often they use DSD as the mixing medium,
completely bypassing PCM (of course, this is not the case with many of them,
especially pop which may have been recorded in digital). The very finest
in sound, it is generally acknowledged, are those modern-day recordings that
are recorded in DSD from the beginning (these are mostly but not completely
classical). Even on the CD layer, these sound exceptionally good (for CD). |
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Steven Sullivan
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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Jordan Gilman <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | (1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode?
|
No, there is no consensus on that, since hybrid SACDs almost always
feature a new remaster on the CD layer, which are therefore audibly
different from previous CD versions for reasons that have nothing
to do with SACD per se. Any remaster may sound better, or worse, than a
previous release, depending on taste.
| Quote: | (2) Are the CD portions of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not be
on the regular CD?
|
Some may be DSD masters that are simply converted to PCM; hopefully
all use the same source as the DSD layer, which hopefully is better than
previous versions, or is mastered with more care. So to that extent, they
may have gotten 'audiophile' treatment. Or they may have gotten the usual
dynamic range compression/heavy noise reduction treatment that so many CD
remasters get these days.
--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow |
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Michael
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:31 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This
is my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set)
skips horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although
the CD layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am
playing it on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no
scratches whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing
defect - or worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for
awhile so I can't return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs.
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
| Quote: | On 20 Oct 2005 02:09:34 GMT, "Harry Lavo" <hlavo@comcast.net> wrote:
"Jordan Gilman" <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:dj4eim0dan@news3.newsguy.com...
(1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD portions
of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not be
on the regular CD?
The only "audiophile" treatment they get is generally to be remastered using
audiophile-quality care by the remastering engineers. The engineers often
go back to the original multitrack tapes or mixdown tapes, rather than the
commercial masters. Then often they use DSD as the mixing medium,
completely bypassing PCM (of course, this is not the case with many of them,
especially pop which may have been recorded in digital). The very finest
in sound, it is generally acknowledged, are those modern-day recordings that
are recorded in DSD from the beginning (these are mostly but not completely
classical). Even on the CD layer, these sound exceptionally good (for CD).
That is the general case. However, there are instances in which the
CD layer is still an older unremastered version. In the case of the
MLPs, that's to permit comparison with the original Wilma Cozart
versions. In other cases, it was laziness or sloppiness.
Kal
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Kalman Rubinson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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It happens. Perhaps it is marginal physically and one player cannot
handle it. Perhaps there is a subtle defect. I would not indict
hybrids based on this single sample. I have about 1000 hybrids and
only 1-2 give any trouble on 1 of the 5 players I have.
BTW, do not assume that a more expensive player has better lattitude
for accomodating marginal discs or better error correction than does a
less expensive one.
Kal
On 21 Oct 2005 05:31:02 GMT, Michael <mzeitlin@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This
is my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set)
skips horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although
the CD layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am
playing it on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no
scratches whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing
defect - or worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for
awhile so I can't return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs. |
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Michael
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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kal - thanks for the feedback.
I will be swapping out the disc from my local store for a new one and
see....but I am puzzled why a much better player (build and sonic
quality) should have more trouble tracking a disc than a lesser
'universal' machine. We'll see if the new disc plays fine.
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
| Quote: | It happens. Perhaps it is marginal physically and one player cannot
handle it. Perhaps there is a subtle defect. I would not indict
hybrids based on this single sample. I have about 1000 hybrids and
only 1-2 give any trouble on 1 of the 5 players I have.
BTW, do not assume that a more expensive player has better lattitude
for accomodating marginal discs or better error correction than does a
less expensive one.
Kal
On 21 Oct 2005 05:31:02 GMT, Michael <mzeitlin@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This
is my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set)
skips horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although
the CD layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am
playing it on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no
scratches whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing
defect - or worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for
awhile so I can't return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs. |
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Harry Lavo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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"Michael" <mzeitlin@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:dj9uem0138a@news1.newsguy.com...
| Quote: | I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This is
my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set) skips
horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although the CD
layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am playing it
on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no scratches
whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing defect - or
worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for awhile so I can't
return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs.
|
No, it is not a general problem with Hybrid's. However, it seems to be a
widespread experience that most machines (Pioneers transports seem to be the
exception, Sony's the rule) occassionally have problems with a given disk or
two...always Hybrids, but not always the same sections (multitrack, stereo)
and certainly not the same disks. I've had it happen with perhaps three
disks out of a 100+....play fine on my Pioneer, skip on both Sony's. But
other people's Sony's play other copies of these recordings just fine. As
far as I can surmise, this has to be a tolerance problem between a specific
player and a specific disk. But I have never seen or heard a suitable
explaination from anybody.
| Quote: |
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On 20 Oct 2005 02:09:34 GMT, "Harry Lavo" <hlavo@comcast.net> wrote:
"Jordan Gilman" <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:dj4eim0dan@news3.newsguy.com...
(1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD
portions of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not
be
on the regular CD?
The only "audiophile" treatment they get is generally to be remastered
using audiophile-quality care by the remastering engineers. The
engineers often go back to the original multitrack tapes or mixdown
tapes, rather than the commercial masters. Then often they use DSD as
the mixing medium, completely bypassing PCM (of course, this is not the
case with many of them, especially pop which may have been recorded in
digital). The very finest in sound, it is generally acknowledged, are
those modern-day recordings that are recorded in DSD from the beginning
(these are mostly but not completely classical). Even on the CD layer,
these sound exceptionally good (for CD).
That is the general case. However, there are instances in which the
CD layer is still an older unremastered version. In the case of the
MLPs, that's to permit comparison with the original Wilma Cozart
versions. In other cases, it was laziness or sloppiness.
Kal
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Michael
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:58 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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Well...I replaced the hybrid SACD and the new one plays fine. I am
still puzzled why a more expensive player has difficulty
tracking/decoding than a less expensive unit (And both are from the same
manufacturer - Marantz !).
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
| Quote: | It happens. Perhaps it is marginal physically and one player cannot
handle it. Perhaps there is a subtle defect. I would not indict
hybrids based on this single sample. I have about 1000 hybrids and
only 1-2 give any trouble on 1 of the 5 players I have.
BTW, do not assume that a more expensive player has better lattitude
for accomodating marginal discs or better error correction than does a
less expensive one.
Kal
On 21 Oct 2005 05:31:02 GMT, Michael <mzeitlin@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This
is my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set)
skips horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although
the CD layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am
playing it on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no
scratches whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing
defect - or worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for
awhile so I can't return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs. |
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Chung
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:02 am Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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Michael wrote:
| Quote: | kal - thanks for the feedback.
I will be swapping out the disc from my local store for a new one and
see....but I am puzzled why a much better player (build and sonic
quality) should have more trouble tracking a disc than a lesser
'universal' machine. We'll see if the new disc plays fine.
|
The "lesser" machine may use a very high-volume CD/DVD drive mechanism,
one that has been designed to track defects better or to be more
reliable, or one that is simply better designed and more robust. |
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Stan Hendrix
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:
Re: CD Quality of "Hybrid" SACD? |
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I had the same problem with this disk. So I wrote Mercury/Decca and, guess
what? They acknolwedged that some of these disks had manufacturing defects
and sent me a replacement disk - no questions asked - directly from the UK.
What great customer service! As a result I will defiitely buy more
MLP/Decca recordings.
"Michael" <mzeitlin@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:dj9uem0138a@news1.newsguy.com...
| Quote: | I have Mercury Living Presence' Hybrid SACD/CD Bach solo Cello. This is
my only Hybrid SACD. I notice that the first disc (two disc set) skips
horribly when played in SACD mode and plays fine in CD (although the CD
layer does not sound as good of course as the SACD layer). I am playing it
on a Marantz SA-11s1 player. The discs are a year old - no scratches
whatsoever - so I am wondering if this is a manufacturing defect - or
worse, the nature of Hybrid. I have had the discs for awhile so I can't
return them as I don't recall where I bought them.
Anyone have this problem? I am wary of buying any more Hybrid discs.
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On 20 Oct 2005 02:09:34 GMT, "Harry Lavo" <hlavo@comcast.net> wrote:
"Jordan Gilman" <jgilman@wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:dj4eim0dan@news3.newsguy.com...
(1) I was wondering if there is a consensus about whether hybrid SACD's
sound as good as normal CD's in CD playback mode? (2) Are the CD
portions of
these hybrid discs given any "audiophile" like treatment that might not
be
on the regular CD?
The only "audiophile" treatment they get is generally to be remastered
using audiophile-quality care by the remastering engineers. The
engineers often go back to the original multitrack tapes or mixdown
tapes, rather than the commercial masters. Then often they use DSD as
the mixing medium, completely bypassing PCM (of course, this is not the
case with many of them, especially pop which may have been recorded in
digital). The very finest in sound, it is generally acknowledged, are
those modern-day recordings that are recorded in DSD from the beginning
(these are mostly but not completely classical). Even on the CD layer,
these sound exceptionally good (for CD).
That is the general case. However, there are instances in which the
CD layer is still an older unremastered version. In the case of the
MLPs, that's to permit comparison with the original Wilma Cozart
versions. In other cases, it was laziness or sloppiness.
Kal
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