| Author |
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Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Monitor feedback |
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How is it that monitors don't always cause feedback when used for
vocalists? Since the monitor is pointed back at the singer and mic,
even if it's a unidirectional mic, I would expect the mic to pick up
the sound from the monitor and magnify it.
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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<natjordan@gmail.com>
| Quote: |
How is it that monitors don't always cause feedback when used for
vocalists? Since the monitor is pointed back at the singer and mic,
even if it's a unidirectional mic, I would expect the mic to pick up
the sound from the monitor and magnify it.
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** The simple answer is that sound pressure cannot be magnified at the same
place it is being received by a mic or else feedback is the result.
A PA monitor generates a replica sound at a place away from the mic
position. When this sound travels back to the mic position the risk of
feedback howling occurs - but only if the sound is equally loud at that
spot as the original (ie voice) that created it.
When a PA system is functioning free of feedback - the sound pressure
arriving at the mic's diaphragm due to a person's voice is higher than the
sound pressure arriving at the exact same place from the speakers.
Directional mics reduce the risk of feedback by partially cancelling sound
that arrives from directly behind - however, the presence of a human face
and mouth in front of such a mic re-directs sound coming from behind onto
the diaphragm anyway.
The real secret is this: for a vocalist to hear themselves clearly in a
stage monitor, despite the sound from an amplified, live band only a few
feet away they must do one thing - sing VERY LOUDLY right into the mic
the the closest possible range.
Have someone shout or sing loudly right into your ear if you doubt how loud
a voice is at a range of less than 1 inch.
.......... Phil |
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Ron(UK)
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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Phil Allison wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob Urz"
** Any punks want to do the planet a favour ??
There is this sub human ASSHOLE in Nebraska that needs taking out.
......... Phil
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Are you suggesting that someone should 'do him in'? if so, that
deserves a complaint against your isp.
I think you need to see a doc about your meds again.
Ron(UK)
--
www.lunevalleyaudio.com |
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject:
FUCK OFF KRUEGWE- R |
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"Arny Krueger"
| Quote: | Depends what you call feedback.
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** It means HOWLING !!!!
Just like the shrieks and screams emanating straight from **HELL** from
all the " born again Christian " fucking HYPOCRITES like YOU !!!!
Satan is enjoying himself to the MAX torturing them more than any other of
his clients.
........ Phil |
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Robert McTigue"
| Quote: |
See Phil's 1st post on this topic .... I think he answered the question
already.
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** Do I have a new fan ??
........... Phil |
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Robert McTigue
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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Phil Allison wrote:
| Quote: | "Robert McTigue"
See Phil's 1st post on this topic .... I think he answered the question
already.
** Do I have a new fan ??
.......... Phil
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Well you did!! Answer the question ...that is.
--
Touched by his Noodly Appendage |
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Ron(UK)
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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mfassett@pacbell.net wrote:
| Quote: | Phildo wrote:
If everybody here was to fire off a complaint to his ISP he'd be gone
and we wouldn't be bothered by him again.
He IS worse than you, I'll give you that... setting the bar high, I
know. However, I don't really think he's that much worse than you. You
both tend to use the same 7th grade adolescent insults.
No I cant agree with that, Phildo just cant resist sniping at Arny, |
sometimes with justification, sometimes without. but you rarely if ever
see him use the kind of language Alison spews forth. Alison on the other
hand, although capable of some very good and informative posts suffers
from some kind of mental condition which makes him explode into fits of
rage at the slightest provocation.
I cant recall Phildo ever wishing physical harm on another.
I do agree that it`s all very childish, and needs some kind of truce to
be called, that probably isnt going to happen tho and certainly wouldn`t
include P Alison
It`s all very sad because between them and one or two others they spoil
what should be a wonderful resource and social experience. However, at
the end of the day, it`s not that important.
I must admit to being guilty on occasions of 'poking the fire' myself
generally regretting it later.
Ron
--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com |
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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<natjordan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129433524.417761.196020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | How is it that monitors don't always cause feedback when used for
vocalists? Since the monitor is pointed back at the singer and mic,
even if it's a unidirectional mic, I would expect the mic to pick up
the sound from the monitor and magnify it.
|
It's all done with EQ and mic placement.
Normally a mic will just pick up from the front (cardiod or hypercardiod) so
will not pick up so much of the sound from the monitors. Certain frequencies
will be more prone to feedback than others due to all sorts of reasons but
these can be EQ'd out using a graphic.
From the sounds of it you are quite a beginner at sound. I would suggest
getting the Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook and reading it thoroughly.
It covers all the basic and will answer pretty much all your questions.
Phildo |
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Robert McTigue"
Phil Allison wrote:
| Quote: |
See Phil's 1st post on this topic .... I think he answered the question
already.
** Do I have a new fan ??
Well you did!! Answer the question ...that is.
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** You know Rob, I often put a lot of time and effort into answering a
technical query as clearly and precisely as possible for the benefit of some
anonymous person who in all probability is a troll and never even reads my
reply.
But that is not the annoying thing.
The ANNOYING thing is that it is EXACTLY those SAME carefully crafted
posts that attract the MAXIMUM amount of abusive, fucking idiotic &
contradictory replies from know nothing scum bags that haunt usenet.
The likes of Bob Urz, Arny, Gleason, Pooh, Ukulele Ron ..... etc et alia.
May all of them burn in HELL !!!
.......... Phil |
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Phildo"
| Quote: | It's all done with EQ and mic placement.
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** How strange then that "foldback"' still works OK when the mic is hand
held and moving about and the EQ is set quite haphazardly.
There MUST be more science to it.
Nothing as self confessed child killer with a fake uni degree would know
though.
.......... Phil |
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Bob Urz
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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Robert McTigue wrote:
| Quote: | Phil Allison wrote:
"Robert McTigue"
See Phil's 1st post on this topic .... I think he answered the
question already.
** Do I have a new fan ??
.......... Phil
Well you did!! Answer the question ...that is.
If he bought one at the store maybe. Chinese. $4.99. |
And for anyone worried about where Mr. Phil was, i think
the questions has been answered.......
Lets here Phil talk about Pag/NAg D1,D2, and see where this goes.
Lets see if he stays on topic.
Bob
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Phil Allison
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Bob Urz"
** Any punks want to do the planet a favour ??
There is this sub human ASSHOLE in Nebraska that needs taking out.
.......... Phil |
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Bob Urz
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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Phil Allison wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob Urz"
** Any punks want to do the planet a favour ??
There is this sub human ASSHOLE in Nebraska that needs taking out.
......... Phil
Time to go kick you pet Dingo again. |
And some people here actually missed you..........
Bob
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:AdydneQoV4thrs_eRVn-iA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | natjordan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129433524.417761.196020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
How is it that monitors don't always cause feedback when
used for vocalists?
Depends what you call feedback.
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Oh dear, Arny doesn't know the meaning of the word feedback. This is going
to be as good as his FOH post.
| Quote: | Do mean the ringing and humming sound that can grow and grow and destroy
the utility of the sound system?
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Yes, that's feedback.
| Quote: | Or, are you referring to the fact that there is always a certain amount of
sound from the speakers that finds its way back into the microphones?
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No Arny, that's spill but if you knew anything about professional live sound
you would know that already.
| Quote: | It's true that as a rule, at least a certain small amount of sound from
the speakers finds its way into every microphone in the room.
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That is true.
| Quote: | If the amount of feedback is small, then the situation can be managable.
If it is large, then you've got problems.
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That is crap. I am currently mixing a rehearsal and there is absolutely NO
feedback.
| Quote: | Which kind of feedback you have varies because of all of the different
variables in the system. These variables have different values and
meanings in different situations, some combinations of which lead to
objectionable feedback, and some that don't.
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You really do spout some crap at times Arny and you wonder why you get
pulled up on it? If you don't know about the subject at hand then don't
post. It really is that simple. Don't sit there and make stuff up to try and
appear as if you know what you are talking about because there will ALWAYS
be people here who know more than you that will point out you are full of
shit.
| Quote: | Your expectations are realistic. As a rule there is always at least some
feedback in a sound system if even just one mic is operating. However, if
that mic picks up less sound from the speaker than a certain critical
amount, such feedback as exists will not be all that troublesome.
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Complete and utter bollocks. Please learn the difference between a feedback
loop and microphone spill.
Don't forget folks, Arny records every show so he can fix feedback after
it's happened.
Phildo |
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor feedback |
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"Ron(UK)" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:ditmv8$efd$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
| Quote: | Are you suggesting that someone should 'do him in'? if so, that deserves
a complaint against your isp.
|
If everybody here was to fire off a complaint to his ISP he'd be gone and we
wouldn't be bothered by him again.
Don't just think it, DO IT !!!
Phildo |
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