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Ablang
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:44 am Post subject:
TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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TiVo Killers?—Windows PVRs
The PVR is quickly becoming the way people watch TV. TiVo popularized
the idea of a set-top box that lets you pause live TV, time-shift it,
skip commercials, and see all your listings on a single program guide.
With a great remote and intuitive interface, TiVo has become so
well-loved that it has become a verb synonymous with controlling your
TV programming. "Did you see Battlestar Galactica last night?" "No,
but I TiVo'd it."
Microsoft recognized that with a decent TV tuner card, the PC could be
a great PVR. It could do anything TiVo does, plus run Windows
applications, and would make quite a good DVD player, music jukebox,
and photo viewer. Though Windows Media Center Edition started off on
rocky footing, the 2005 edition made a whole host of improvements, and
more will come in the next month with the massive "Rollup 2" patch.
Let's say you don't have Media Center Edition and don't want to wipe
your drive and install it. You have Windows XP and simply want to add
a TV tuner card and PVR type functions so you can hook your PC to your
TV or sit across the room from your large monitor and enjoy all the
benefits of TiVo. There are quite a few programs available that let
you do that; we'll examine three of them today, including SnapStream's
Beyond TV, Cyberlink's PowerCinema, and SageTV.
We were planning to include InterVideo's Home Theater 2, but ran into
some insurmountable setup problems with it and were unable to test it
for this roundup. We'll continue trying to get it working, so look for
a review of it in the future. People familiar with PVR applications
for the PC are probably aware of Myth TV, and are wondering why the
free homebrew project isn't included. The answer is simple: It
requires Linux. There's nothing wrong with Linux at all, but our
roundup focuses on competing Windows applications. Besides, if you
want to turn your PC into a PVR with Linux, Myth TV is pretty much
your only good option. Continued...
next
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1869563,00.asp
===
"Under the guise of anonymity, whether it is on the internet, or on the roadway, a person's true nature will come forward."
-- Me
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scooby doo
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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On 2005-10-14 02:44:28 -0400, Ablang
<HilaryDuffSkinny18YO@ablang-duff.com> said:
| Quote: | http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1869563,00.asp
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Not only that... what about the new iTunes store with video now. If i
bought a replay just to record a show or two
every week... I could just download it for $1.99
Now the iMac comes with a remote? All they need is a tuner and you've
got a nice media center in one little box. |
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Z Man
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Ablang" <HilaryDuffSkinny18YO@ablang-duff.com> wrote in message
news:rskuk1dggjdjmqfc8s3tf91nkmn6jm1o22@4ax.com...
| Quote: | TiVo Killers?-Windows PVRs
The PVR is quickly becoming the way people watch TV. TiVo popularized
the idea of a set-top box that lets you pause live TV, time-shift it,
skip commercials, and see all your listings on a single program guide.
With a great remote and intuitive interface, TiVo has become so
well-loved that it has become a verb synonymous with controlling your
TV programming. "Did you see Battlestar Galactica last night?" "No,
but I TiVo'd it."
Microsoft recognized that with a decent TV tuner card, the PC could be
a great PVR. It could do anything TiVo does, plus run Windows
|
<snip>
Windows MC2005 is not a great PVR, it is a hassle and a nuisance (amd I
repeating myself?). I have several Tivo's including two hidef Tivo's and an
HP z545 Media Center 2005 computer. The Tivo's are extremely user friendly,
and work efficiently and accurately with a minimum of effort. The have a
specific job, and do that job wonderfully. On the other hand, the HP takes a
lot more work and its functionality is limited. The HP cannot do everything
Tivo can due, no where near it. The key factor in favor of Tivo is ease of
use, in which Tivo excels. Thee is simply no comparison, Tivo wins by a
large margin. So, why do I have a Media Center PC? I use it for content that
cannot be played any other way. For example, you can download TV shows in
HDTV format from newsgroups such as alt.binaries.multimeda. These hidef
shows look just great, but the only way to play them is through a computer.
Sure, I can record two HDTV shows at the same time with Tivo, but if a 3rd
show is on at the same time, I must download it. That's principally what I
use my HP for, as I have no choice. In order to cover all bases, you need to
have both Tivo and a media center computer. |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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Ablang wrote:
| Quote: | TiVo Killers?—Windows PVRs
The PVR is quickly becoming the way people watch TV. TiVo popularized
the idea of a set-top box that lets you pause live TV, time-shift it,
skip commercials, and see all your listings on a single program guide.
With a great remote and intuitive interface, TiVo has become so
well-loved that it has become a verb synonymous with controlling your
TV programming. "Did you see Battlestar Galactica last night?" "No,
but I TiVo'd it."
Microsoft recognized that with a decent TV tuner card, the PC could be
a great PVR. It could do anything TiVo does, plus run Windows
applications, and would make quite a good DVD player, music jukebox,
and photo viewer. Though Windows Media Center Edition started off on
rocky footing, the 2005 edition made a whole host of improvements, and
more will come in the next month with the massive "Rollup 2" patch.
|
Well, this article comes from a site that's heavy on PC building and
tweaking, so it's really not surprising. I do like the site, but you
have to take their POV into account. This particular article doesn't
really do a direct comparison of Tivo vs. HTPC's, it's more of a
comparison between PC PVR software, and they don't come off as very
impressive:
"SageTV delivers all the necessary features, but we find the interface
unimpressive. Beyond TV does a good job with TV, but it doesn't handle
DVD and your other media unless you buy the Firefly remote. And the
remote's software doesn't integrate well with Beyond TV. PowerCinema
offers the best overall user experience, which is completely nullified
by the lack of an electronic program guide."
IMO, most non-tivo software focuses too much on functionality and not
enough on usability. Tivo's done most of the little things right. How
many of the PVR software suites have a rolling 30 minute buffer? Or
flexible searching and scheduling of Programs? One big oversight of
this article is *cost*. A Tivo is a heck of a lot cheaper then a full
blown PC (at least one capable of being a decent HDPC). But to the
audience of this website that's probably not a big deal since most of
them probably have at least one PC sitting gathering dust.
This whole paragraph seemed odd though:
"Of course, there are those who still swear by TiVo, and we can't blame
them. TiVo still has one of the best interfaces and remotes out there,
and though it doesn't play DVDs and its media options are fairly
limited, it does a great job with regular PVR functions. Unfortunately,
TiVo's recent troubles (price hikes, service contracts, self-deleting
shows) are making it a less attractive option all the time. "
Can't play DVD's? Have they never seen an integrated model? And did I
miss something, or have there been price hikes or new service contracts
that I've missed? Self-deleting shows? Are they referring to the DRM
issue? This sentence just seemed made up.
Randy S. |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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| Quote: | Can't play DVD's? Have they never seen an integrated model? And did I
miss something, or have there been price hikes or new service contracts
that I've missed? Self-deleting shows? Are they referring to the DRM
issue? This sentence just seemed made up.
Randy S.
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Ha, in the discussion forum for this article:
http://discuss.extremetech.com/n/main.asp?webtag=extremetech&nav=start&msg=77829
Megazone hit all of the above. Too bad the author never responded.
Randy S. |
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Howard
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> wrote in news:dio655$8874$1
@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
| Quote: | Can't play DVD's? Have they never seen an integrated model? And did I
miss something, or have there been price hikes or new service contracts
that I've missed? Self-deleting shows? Are they referring to the DRM
issue? This sentence just seemed made up.
|
They're trying to rake the mud and spread the FUD.
As for price hikes...that was completely made up. The only hikes have been
in the amount of the rebate you get, which went from $50 to $100 and is now
$150.
As for the 'service contract', that was an excellent idea. Basically, the
rebate is tied to obtaining service, and the 'contract' part of it is if
you drop the service within the specified time frame, you lose the rebate.
This basically kills all the people who buy a TiVo, cut out the UPC and
collect the rebate, then sell it on eBay at full price claiming there's a
rebate available, but noting (and hoping you missed it) that the 'UPC has
been removed for promotional purposes'. Now TiVo has a new customer who
can't get the rebate, and for some reason is pissed at TiVo about it rather
than the thieves on eBay.
Of course, if you get lifetime service, you get the rebate and there's no
'contract'. Honest people who are buying the device with the intent of
using it are in no way touched by this requirement...it's the people who
want to dishonestly collect the rebate. As an honest user, I'm COMPLETELY
fine with it.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile. |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
| Quote: | Can't play DVD's? Have they never seen an integrated model? And did I
miss something, or have there been price hikes or new service contracts
that I've missed? Self-deleting shows? Are they referring to the DRM
issue? This sentence just seemed made up.
Ha, in the discussion forum for this article:
http://discuss.extremetech.com/n/main.asp?webtag=extremetech&nav=start&msg=77829
Megazone hit all of the above. Too bad the author never responded.
|
Heh, I was going to call your attention to that. :-)
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
| Quote: | That's great, and I agree, but I've never even *heard* of a contract
controversy. Do you think that it's the rebate thing they are referring
to? It certainly seems to be a non-issue.
|
It flared up on a few blogs and TiVoCommunity.com. TiVo recently
updated the user agreement to include a clause wherein anyone who
activates new TiVo service and cancels it within a year may be charged
a $150 cancellation fee. It is not dependent on getting the rebate,
it applies to any service activations.
But, as you say, this shouldn't impact someone who buys the unit and
activates it with the intent to use it. And the clause is 'may' not
'will', and historically TiVo has been sane enough about things. So
if someone was activating a new super-TiVo upgrade and wanted to stop
service on the old unit, I rather suspect they won't get it with the
fee.
It is intended to deter people from getting the unit cheap, activating
it just long enough to get their rebate, then cancelling it and
reselling the box. Or hacking it to work without a subscription.
More than one hack site has encouraged people to do just that kind of
thing.
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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Randy S.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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| Quote: | Of course, if you get lifetime service, you get the rebate and there's no
'contract'. Honest people who are buying the device with the intent of
using it are in no way touched by this requirement...it's the people who
want to dishonestly collect the rebate. As an honest user, I'm COMPLETELY
fine with it.
|
That's great, and I agree, but I've never even *heard* of a contract
controversy. Do you think that it's the rebate thing they are referring
to? It certainly seems to be a non-issue.
Randy S. |
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Howard
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> wrote in
news:dioj9o$j04i$1@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
| Quote: | That's great, and I agree, but I've never even *heard* of a contract
controversy. Do you think that it's the rebate thing they are referring
to? It certainly seems to be a non-issue.
|
That's the only thing I can think of that they might be twisting. I agree
though...it's completely a non-issue.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile. |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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Howard <stile99@email.com> shaped the electrons to say:
| Quote: | I was just thinking how wonderful it would be to have a DVD player in the
same box as my TiVo. Then I was thinking how there's no way I'm going
from 550+ hours to only 80.
|
You can drop a bigger drive in the DVD systems just like any other
TiVo.
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> shaped the electrons to say:
| Quote: | You know it. That's why these sites are so bad. And that's why
questions that even border on it are greeted with so much hostility here.
|
It is a similar mentality to people who buy some tool they need for a
project, use it, the return it as 'the wrong item'. I've seen people
encourage others to do that many times. It always astounds me that
people think that's somehow acceptable.
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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MegaZone
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:59 am Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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Doug Warner <dwarner22@ccharter.net> shaped the electrons to say:
| Quote: | The store people were about to take it back. They should have had
him arrested for fraud instead.
|
WAY back in high school I worked the service desk at a drug store and
from time to time we had winners like that too. One lady tried to
return a bottle of Lysol she claimed she'd bought earlier in the week,
and was returning because the nozzle was broken. She didn't want a
new bottle, of course, she wanted her money back.
The bottle sure did have a broken nozzle. It was also of a design
Lysol hadn't used for a while, certainly not one we had in stock the
entire year I worked there - it looked a few years old. The price
sticker, which was faded, was not of the type we used at the time.
And, of course, no receipt.
When I pointed these minor details out, she blew her top. I let one
of the managers deal with her.
I've been the victim of these jerks too. Some people will buy an item
and use it up - like a grill lighter, battery, etc - then go buy a new
one, put the old one in the new package, and return the 'new' one.
Which gets restocked, and some poor sap, like me, buys it - then has
to look like the jerk when you return it. "No, really, it was empty
when I got it home!"
I've seen things like "Oh, just get a crimper from CompUSA and return
it when you're done with it" on TiVo groups for people making Ethernet
cables. Or suggestions for people to do the same with *hard drives*
when they need an extra drive to shuffle things around.
Borrow from your friends, if they can't help, suck it up and pay for
it. If you don't need it - eBay it later, or just keep it and then
next time someone needs it, lend it to them.
Feh.
-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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MegaZone (newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
| Quote: | It is intended to deter people from getting the unit cheap, activating
it just long enough to get their rebate, then cancelling it and
reselling the box. Or hacking it to work without a subscription.
More than one hack site has encouraged people to do just that kind of
thing.
|
I fear the day when enough people are using "cracked" TiVos to allow manual
recording without subscription that TiVo feels the need to shut down all
hacks, including larger hard drive installs.
--
Jeff Rife | "Damn it, I miss the sound of her voice. I tried
| putting silverware down the disposal, but it
| wasn't the same."
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| -- Ned Dorsey, "Ned and Stacey" |
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Howard
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:38 am Post subject:
Re: TiVo Killers? -- Windows PVRs |
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Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in
news:MPG.1dba04cc7eb5c61898a074@news.nabs.net:
| Quote: | I fear the day when enough people are using "cracked" TiVos to allow
manual recording without subscription that TiVo feels the need to shut
down all hacks, including larger hard drive installs.
|
So does TiVo, because that's the day I become an ex-customer. One of
many, I imagine.
I was just thinking how wonderful it would be to have a DVD player in the
same box as my TiVo. Then I was thinking how there's no way I'm going
from 550+ hours to only 80.
The music industry started treating all their customers like criminals.
They're on the verge of death. I don't think TiVo would make the same
mistake.
--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile. |
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