| Author |
Message |
Andre Jute
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject:
French films |
|
|
Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob, here are some
hints:
I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken. Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
But European films I really loved were those that copied American films
and gave them a savage twist. Those films Charles Bronson made which
were financed by French and Italian money were all superior to his
later Hollywood oevre (with the exception of his crossover movie, The
Mechanic, which had the most cynical script until Tarrentino arrived).
Alain Delon, a favourite actor of mine, didn't really come into his
full flowring as an actor until he was cast in Hollywood movies with,
for instance, Burt Lancaster.
I found nothing to like in the onanistic films of Godard and Truffaut,
or crap like the auteur theory. Borsalino was worth ten times as much
as all the films of Godard and Truffaut together. Compare the
Godard/Trauffaut rubbish to The Leopard or any other European film made
with American money and production input but a European literary
script, and you will agree with me.
The best French movie ever made was A Man and a Woman. It was fabulous
precisely because it brought American production values to a decent
French script.
French film noir is so dark because until the advent of American money
they couldn't afford enough Kliegs to light the sets properly, in fact
they couldn't afford sets...
During the same period Hollywood made a great many good films, a few
great ones, and scads of the usual bubblegum trash. Europe too turned
out bubblegum trash, to such an extent that the soft-porn producers
Golan and Globus went to Hollywood as big men. So, I cannot agree with
Bruce that French movies, or European movies, are intrinsically
superior. Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
Andre Jute
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dave weil
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On 6 Oct 2005 11:13:58 -0700, "Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob, here are some
hints:
I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken. Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
|
Frankly, I happen to like the films of Jean-Pierre Jeunet, espcially
"La cité des enfants perdus". If that makes me a bad man, then so be
it. Of course, his films have also gotten near-mainstream
distribution...
| Quote: | But European films I really loved were those that copied American films
and gave them a savage twist. Those films Charles Bronson made which
were financed by French and Italian money were all superior to his
later Hollywood oevre (with the exception of his crossover movie, The
Mechanic, which had the most cynical script until Tarrentino arrived).
Alain Delon, a favourite actor of mine, didn't really come into his
full flowring as an actor until he was cast in Hollywood movies with,
for instance, Burt Lancaster.
I found nothing to like in the onanistic
|
He said onanistic...heh heh...
| Quote: | films of Godard and Truffaut,
|
Well, there's no accounting for taste <chuckle>.
If you can't find anything to like in a film like Jules et Jim or À
bout de souffle (to pick two well-known examples of great filmmaking),
well then...
| Quote: | or crap like the auteur
|
He said auteur...heh heh...
| Quote: | theory. Borsalino was worth ten times as much
as all the films of Godard and Truffaut together. Compare the
Godard/Trauffaut rubbish to The Leopard or any other European film made
with American money and production input but a European literary
script, and you will agree with me.
The best French movie ever made was A Man and a Woman. It was fabulous
precisely because it brought American production values to a decent
French script.
French film noir is so dark because until the advent of American money
they couldn't afford enough Kliegs to light the sets properly, in fact
they couldn't afford sets...
During the same period Hollywood made a great many good films, a few
great ones, and scads of the usual bubblegum trash. Europe too turned
out bubblegum trash, to such an extent that the soft-porn producers
Golan and Globus went to Hollywood as big men. So, I cannot agree with
Bruce that French movies, or European movies, are intrinsically
superior.
|
Well, it would be helpful if he actually said that.
| Quote: | Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
|
Well, the first one was a lot of fun.
| Quote: | However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
|
We'll just have to put up with YOUR peculiar form of snobbery. |
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George Middius
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute said:
| Quote: | The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution.
|
I recommend these:
A Matter of Taste (Une Affaire de Goût) by Bernard Rapp
Criminal Lovers (Les amants criminels) by Francois Ozon |
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Lionel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:29 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute a écrit :
| Quote: | Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob, here are some
hints:
I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken. Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
But European films I really loved were those that copied American films
and gave them a savage twist. Those films Charles Bronson made which
were financed by French and Italian money were all superior to his
later Hollywood oevre (with the exception of his crossover movie, The
Mechanic, which had the most cynical script until Tarrentino arrived).
Alain Delon, a favourite actor of mine, didn't really come into his
full flowring as an actor until he was cast in Hollywood movies with,
for instance, Burt Lancaster.
|
Don't speak about Alain Delon if you don't really know his filmography. ;-)
| Quote: | I found nothing to like in the onanistic films of Godard and Truffaut,
or crap like the auteur theory. Borsalino was worth ten times as much
as all the films of Godard and Truffaut together.
|
Some movies are really untranslatable. Learn French.
| Quote: | Compare the
Godard/Trauffaut rubbish to The Leopard or any other European film made
with American money and production input but a European literary
script, and you will agree with me.
|
Your problem is that you try to compare movies that cannot be compared.
http://www.ecrannoir.fr/real/france/mocky.htm
He is my prefered film maker if you haven't seen anything from him
please never speak again about "French" movies... ;-)
Have you seen "Un singe en hivers" ? |
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Ruud Broens
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:37 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
"Lionel" <rf.eerf@siupahc.lenoil> wrote in message
news:43458922$0$12625$636a15ce@news.free.fr...
:
: Some movies are really untranslatable. Learn French.
:
: Have you seen "Un singe en hivers" ?
Uhh, "I'm singing in the Hive ?"
R. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On 6 Oct 2005 11:13:58 -0700, "Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob, here are some
hints:
I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken. Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
But European films I really loved were those that copied American films
and gave them a savage twist. Those films Charles Bronson made which
were financed by French and Italian money were all superior to his
later Hollywood oevre (with the exception of his crossover movie, The
Mechanic, which had the most cynical script until Tarrentino arrived).
Alain Delon, a favourite actor of mine, didn't really come into his
full flowring as an actor until he was cast in Hollywood movies with,
for instance, Burt Lancaster.
I found nothing to like in the onanistic films of Godard and Truffaut,
or crap like the auteur theory. Borsalino was worth ten times as much
as all the films of Godard and Truffaut together. Compare the
Godard/Trauffaut rubbish to The Leopard or any other European film made
with American money and production input but a European literary
script, and you will agree with me.
The best French movie ever made was A Man and a Woman. It was fabulous
precisely because it brought American production values to a decent
French script.
French film noir is so dark because until the advent of American money
they couldn't afford enough Kliegs to light the sets properly, in fact
they couldn't afford sets...
During the same period Hollywood made a great many good films, a few
great ones, and scads of the usual bubblegum trash. Europe too turned
out bubblegum trash, to such an extent that the soft-porn producers
Golan and Globus went to Hollywood as big men. So, I cannot agree with
Bruce that French movies, or European movies, are intrinsically
superior. Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
Andre Jute
|
Don't mistake your opinion for fact...
BTW did you see the movie Amelie? |
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George M. Middius
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute said:
| Quote: | Thanks for your recommendations, gentlemen. Perhaps you missed the
determined past tense in my original letter in this thread.
|
I, for one, wasn't talking specifically to you. The subject of Froggie
Films was raised, and I wanted to embarrass Slut. |
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Andre Jute
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute wrote:
[A mercifully brief if poncey pontification, more notable for being
stylishly bitchy than for any real content, which is repeated at the
bottom for the record.]
George Middius wrote:
| Quote: | I recommend these:
A Matter of Taste (Une Affaire de Goût) by Bernard Rapp
Criminal Lovers (Les amants criminels) by Francois Ozon
|
Lionel wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.ecrannoir.fr/real/france/mocky.htm
|
dave weil wrote:
| Quote: | "La cité des enfants perdus".
|
Thanks for your recommendations, gentlemen. Perhaps you missed the
determined past tense in my original letter in this thread. Today I am
so busy being a trendsetter and allround smartarse that I don't have
time to watch minority movies I might not like. Members of my family
choose surefire American thrillers or action comedies which I am
certain not to walk out on.
dave weil wrote:
| Quote: | We'll just have to put up with YOUR peculiar form of snobbery.
|
My particular form of snobbery would be of no interest to Bruce; its
satisfactions would baffle him as exactly the opposite of what he is
trying to achieve. I'm just helping him glib up his snobbery with a
veneer of discrimination about physical things and a few of the easier
abstracts not requiring original thinking.
It's just an excuse for getting around to talking about cars, Dave, me
old son. Sex, cars and money, everything is about sex, cars and money.
You heard it here for the 2,563,986th time.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site" -- Hi-Fi News & Record Review
PS I liked Chocolat. Was that a French movie or did I just imagine the
subtitles? In that case it shoulda been a French movie. Come to think
of it, the lighting was pretty grim; musta been a French movie. And I
liked Amalie; she reminded me of Monsieur Hulot.
Andre Jute wrote:
| Quote: | Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob, here are some
hints:
I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken. Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
But European films I really loved were those that copied American films
and gave them a savage twist. Those films Charles Bronson made which
were financed by French and Italian money were all superior to his
later Hollywood oevre (with the exception of his crossover movie, The
Mechanic, which had the most cynical script until Tarrentino arrived).
Alain Delon, a favourite actor of mine, didn't really come into his
full flowring as an actor until he was cast in Hollywood movies with,
for instance, Burt Lancaster.
I found nothing to like in the onanistic films of Godard and Truffaut,
or crap like the auteur theory. Borsalino was worth ten times as much
as all the films of Godard and Truffaut together. Compare the
Godard/Trauffaut rubbish to The Leopard or any other European film made
with American money and production input but a European literary
script, and you will agree with me.
The best French movie ever made was A Man and a Woman. It was fabulous
precisely because it brought American production values to a decent
French script.
French film noir is so dark because until the advent of American money
they couldn't afford enough Kliegs to light the sets properly, in fact
they couldn't afford sets...
During the same period Hollywood made a great many good films, a few
great ones, and scads of the usual bubblegum trash. Europe too turned
out bubblegum trash, to such an extent that the soft-porn producers
Golan and Globus went to Hollywood as big men. So, I cannot agree with
Bruce that French movies, or European movies, are intrinsically
superior. Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
Andre Jute |
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paul packer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On 6 Oct 2005 11:13:58 -0700, "Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Since Bruce wants help in turning into a sneerier snob
|
He said that? Gee, I'll have to read more carefully.
| Quote: | I never saw any French film at a film festival that I liked, except
Lacombe Lucien, and that was a glossy, Americanized piece of work.
Super scene where the protagonist knocks the head off the Sunday
luncheon chicken.
|
Now that's the kind of scene I've been looking for!
| Quote: | Doomed to failure of course, because of the downbeat
theme and the audience knowing from the beginning that it must add
badly; tragedy is death at the box office.
|
Add badly? It was about mathematics?
| Quote: | The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers
|
That would indeed be an epic.
| Quote: | The best French movie ever made was A Man and a Woman. It was fabulous
precisely because it brought American production values to a decent
French script.
French film noir is so dark because until the advent of American money
they couldn't afford enough Kliegs to light the sets properly, in fact
they couldn't afford sets...
|
So why is American film noir dark then?
| Quote: | However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
|
This is indeed a superior perspective on the art of filmmaking.
Reminds me of a British skit on American filmmaking where the spoof
film was called, "Things Exploding," and the sequel, "Everything
Explodes." |
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paul packer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:45:17 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | The French films I really liked were all good enough to get mainstream
or near-mainstream distribution. I loved the films that starred Michel
Piccoli and Stephanie Audran. They were small films, comparable to
something from Hollywood starring Robert di Niro and Jane Fonda as
adulterers, say, but with more believable detailing and a more human
surface.
Frankly, I happen to like the films of Jean-Pierre Jeunet, espcially
"La cité des enfants perdus". If that makes me a bad man, then so be
it.
|
Now, Dave, you know you could never be a bad man. :-)
| Quote: | During the same period Hollywood made a great many good films, a few
great ones, and scads of the usual bubblegum trash. Europe too turned
out bubblegum trash, to such an extent that the soft-porn producers
Golan and Globus went to Hollywood as big men. So, I cannot agree with
Bruce that French movies, or European movies, are intrinsically
superior.
Well, it would be helpful if he actually said that.
|
Yes. Isn't it wonderful how people read what they wish to read,
perhaps according to their own prejudices? Mr. Miller certainly knows
how to push buttons.
| Quote: | Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
Well, the first one was a lot of fun.
|
If you like to watch people running on broken glass.
| Quote: | However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
We'll just have to put up with YOUR peculiar form of snobbery.
|
Reverse? |
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dave weil
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:06 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On 6 Oct 2005 17:03:56 -0700, "Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | dave weil wrote:
"La cité des enfants perdus".
Thanks for your recommendations, gentlemen. Perhaps you missed the
determined past tense in my original letter in this thread. Today I am
so busy being a trendsetter and allround smartarse that I don't have
time to watch minority movies I might not like. Members of my family
choose surefire American thrillers or action comedies which I am
certain not to walk out on.
|
You seem a bit obtuse today. I wasn't "recommending" it to you. |
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dave weil
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:17 am Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 02:09:39 GMT, packer@iprimus.com.au (paul packer)
wrote:
| Quote: | Personally, I loved the Die Hard movies.
Well, the first one was a lot of fun.
If you like to watch people running on broken glass.
|
It's a requirement. I think that all movies that DON'T feature people
running on glass are useless. That's why all of the "barefoot on glass
scenes" in Amélie that were left on the cutting room floor made that
movie hollow and evicerated.
| Quote: | However, I can explain why most British movies are so cringemakingly
inferior: it is because the British have a poor man's outlook on the
destruction of property while Americans just purely love blowing things
up. That's what makes American movies so satisfying, the amount of
property destroyed in any good American movie.
I vote for Hollywood. Looks like George isn't the only one about to be
thrownout of the Snob's Snuggery. But at least we won't have to commit
Hugger Muggery with Bruce.
We'll just have to put up with YOUR peculiar form of snobbery.
Reverse?
|
No, not exactly.
I'm just glad that I didn't mention how much I loved Lock Stock and
Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch. Those two movies made me HOWL. |
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Lionel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
George Minus Middius a écrit :
| Quote: |
Andre Jute said:
Thanks for your recommendations, gentlemen. Perhaps you missed the
determined past tense in my original letter in this thread.
I, for one, wasn't talking specifically to you. The subject of Froggie
Films was raised, and I wanted to embarrass Slut.
|
Oh dear I'm really embarrassed, you know !
You can return to your PlayStation now. :-) |
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Lionel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute a écrit :
| Quote: | Thanks for your recommendations, gentlemen. Perhaps you missed the
determined past tense in my original letter in this thread.
|
Sorry, I was just trying to rescue a thread that hasn't any sens. |
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Lionel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject:
Re: French films |
|
|
Andre Jute a écrit :
Jezus ! An other mytho-megalomaniac aesthete !!!!
....Some competition for you, George. ;-) |
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