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Erik de Castro Lopo
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:48 am Post subject:
Re: getting OT: Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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Stig Bull wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <627d0$4367699f$18d6ec55$1815@KNOLOGY.NET>, bo@cephus.com
says...
I came in late on this thread..so this may not be what you are after. Just
in case it is:
(from http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html)
This one's actually very good:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html
Worthy of notice: "As teachers, both of us have found that asking our
students to analyse controversies is of enormous value to their
education. What is wrong, then, with teaching both sides of the alleged
controversy between evolution and creationism or "intelligent design"
(ID)? And, by the way, don't be fooled by the disingenuous euphemism.
There is nothing new about ID. It is simply creationism camouflaged with
a new name to slip (with some success, thanks to loads of tax-free money
and slick public-relations professionals) under the radar of the US
Constitution's mandate for separation between church and state."
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Nice selective quoting!!!!!!
In the next paragraph :
"Why, then, would two lifelong educators and passionate advocates of
the "both sides" style of teaching join with essentially all biologists
in making an exception of the alleged controversy between creation and
evolution?"
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"The phrase "object-oriented" means a lot of things. Half are obvious,
and the other half are mistakes." -- Paul Graham
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Bevan Weiss
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: getting OT: Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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Laurence Payne wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:05:11 +1100, Erik de Castro Lopo
nospam@mega-nerd.com> wrote:
I came in late on this thread..so this may not be what you are after. Just
in case it is:
(from http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html)
Right, sot you have a bunch of guys from a couple of
handred years ago, two from last century and noone
that is even contemporary.
Which could prove that a correct idea doesn't need constant
re-invention. Or that we're going to Hell in a handbasket and have
very nearly arrived. :-)
|
I think it's more that scientists are separating out their scientific
beliefs concerning how things have evolved etc from their religious
beliefs. I mean just because you believe in some higher power looking
over you doesn't mean that you can't believe in evolution.
In fact, just because you want to believe in god doesn't mean that you
have to believe a single word written in the bible. Which I think a
large majority of Christians tend to forget, and end up taking the bible
as entirely literal.
For all we know it may have been some absurd book of fiction about some
persons pet that just happened to have been mis-copied by a dyslexic monk. |
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Eric Jacobsen
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:28 am Post subject:
Re: getting OT: Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:03:42 +1300, Bevan Weiss
<kaizen__@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In fact, just because you want to believe in god doesn't mean that you
have to believe a single word written in the bible. Which I think a
large majority of Christians tend to forget, and end up taking the bible
as entirely literal.
|
Many Christians, fundamentalists, for example, are specifically and
emphatically taught that the Bible should be taken literally and that
it is infallible. Naturally this sets them up for a lot of ridicule
and frustration but it is, in fact, the case.
A sad fact is that this particular group has a lot of political
influence in the US, and this is a fundamental reason why we have
these issues of dealing with teaching ID in science classes, reducing
(or eliminating, as some would like) the separation of church and
state, legislating morality in various intrusive forms, etc., etc.,
etc.
I'm starting to understand how many in Afghanistan must have felt when
the Taliban rose to power.
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org |
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gtr
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:08 am Post subject:
Re: getting OT: Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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On 2005-11-03 11:28:15 -0800, Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacobsen@ieee.org> said:
| Quote: | A sad fact is that this particular group has a lot of political
influence in the US, and this is a fundamental reason why we have
these issues of dealing with teaching ID in science classes, reducing
(or eliminating, as some would like) the separation of church and
state, legislating morality in various intrusive forms, etc., etc.,
etc.
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It's all about money now. Welcome to modern capitalist Christianity (tm).
--
Thank you and have a nice day. |
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Jerry Avins
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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Geoff Wood wrote:
| Quote: | "Stig Bull" <stig.bull.no.spam@broadpark.no> wrote in message
The Intelligent Design movement *ARE* Creationists in disguise.
End of discussion.
For an intelligent design, I seee a great lack of intelligence ( or
compassion) involved.
|
This just in:
November 9, 2005
School Board
Evolution Slate Outpolls Rivals
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
All eight members up for re-election to the Pennsylvania school board
that had been sued for introducing the teaching of intelligent design as
an alternative to evolution in biology class were swept out of office
yesterday by a slate of challengers who campaigned against the
intelligent design policy.
Among the losing incumbents on the Dover, Pa., board were two members
who testified in favor of the intelligent design policy at a recently
concluded federal trial on the Dover policy: the chairwoman, Sheila
Harkins, and Alan Bonsell.
The election results were a repudiation of the first school district in
the nation to order the introduction of intelligent design in a science
class curriculum. The policy was the subject of a trial in Federal
District Court that ended last Friday. A verdict by Judge John E. Jones
III is expected by early January.
"I think voters were tired of the trial, they were tired of intelligent
design, they were tired of everything that this school board brought
about," said Bernadette Reinking, who was among the winners.
The election will not alter the facts on which the judge must decide the
case. But if the intelligent design policy is defeated in court, the new
school board could refuse to pursue an appeal. It could also withdraw
the policy, a step that many challengers said they intended to take.
"We are all for it being discussed, but we do not want to see it in
biology class," said Judy McIlvaine, a member of the winning slate. "It
is not a science."
The vote counts were close, but of the 16 candidates the one with the
fewest votes was Mr. Bonsell, the driving force behind the intelligent
design policy. Testimony at the trial revealed that Mr. Bonsell had
initially insisted that creationism get equal time in the classroom with
evolution.
One incumbent, James Cashman, said he would contest the vote because a
voting machine in one precinct recorded no votes for him, while others
recorded hundreds.
He said that school spending and a new teacher contract, not intelligent
design, were the determining issues. "We ran a very conservative school
board, and obviously there are people who want to see more money spent,"
he said.
One board member, Heather Geesey, was not up for re-election.
The school board voted in October 2004 to require ninth grade biology
students to hear a brief statement at the start of the semester saying
that there were "gaps" in the theory of evolution, that intelligent
design was an alternative and that students could learn more about it by
reading a textbook "Of Pandas and People," available in the high school
library.
The board was sued by 11 Dover parents who contended that intelligent
design was religious creationism in new packaging, and that the board
was trying to impose its religion on students. The parents were
represented by lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union,
Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and a private law
firm, Pepper Hamilton LLP.
--
"We are all for it being discussed, but we do not want to see it in
biology class, It is not a science."
... Judy McIlvaine, a member of the winning slate.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ |
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Rosco
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject:
Shut up |
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I put a Kill Thread flag on this topic about 3 weeks ago and yet it
still occasionally pops up. The messages are going to audio and MIDI
newsgroups - please take this thread over to alt.stupid.people
jim wrote:
| Quote: |
Jerry Avins wrote:
The school board voted in October 2004 to require ninth grade biology
students to hear a brief statement at the start of the semester saying
that there were "gaps" in the theory of evolution, that intelligent
design was an alternative and that students could learn more about it by
reading a textbook "Of Pandas and People," available in the high school
library.
Interesting, There are gaps in the theory of evolution. For good or bad
"intelligent design" is an alternative. And, presumably students can learn
'something' from every book in the library. It takes a Federal judge
months to review and decide a case based on those facts?
Geeze, government is more of a horse and pony show than even I would have
imagined.
-jim
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jim
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: It's like driving by a car crash. |
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Jerry Avins wrote:
| Quote: | The school board voted in October 2004 to require ninth grade biology
students to hear a brief statement at the start of the semester saying
that there were "gaps" in the theory of evolution, that intelligent
design was an alternative and that students could learn more about it by
reading a textbook "Of Pandas and People," available in the high school
library.
|
Interesting, There are gaps in the theory of evolution. For good or bad
"intelligent design" is an alternative. And, presumably students can learn
'something' from every book in the library. It takes a Federal judge
months to review and decide a case based on those facts?
Geeze, government is more of a horse and pony show than even I would have
imagined.
-jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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