| Author |
Message |
tiglath
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:53 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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Tim S Kemp wrote:
| Quote: |
Turbo TQ310DP and Turbo TQ115DP - neodymium magnet makes sub lightweight,
goes very very loud and sounds great.
|
This seem hard to find in stock in the U.S. There is a dearth of
distributors, although I can see one or two. Being import they are
probably overpriced.
Does Renkus-Heinz or other American manufacturers have comparably good
models?
Cheers
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shannon
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | Tim S Kemp wrote:
Turbo TQ310DP and Turbo TQ115DP - neodymium magnet makes sub lightweight,
goes very very loud and sounds great.
This seem hard to find in stock in the U.S. There is a dearth of
distributors, although I can see one or two. Being import they are
probably overpriced.
Does Renkus-Heinz or other American manufacturers have comparably good
models?
Cheers
|
With American made components ?
No. |
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Tiglath
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:39 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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"shannon" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message news:435d5567@clear.net.nz...
| Quote: | tiglath wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:
Turbo TQ310DP and Turbo TQ115DP - neodymium magnet makes sub
lightweight,
goes very very loud and sounds great.
This seem hard to find in stock in the U.S. There is a dearth of
distributors, although I can see one or two. Being import they are
probably overpriced.
Does Renkus-Heinz or other American manufacturers have comparably good
models?
Cheers
With American made components ?
No.
|
I don't understand.
Is that a blanket statement against all American technology? I hope it's
not because you could simply be drowned in a diluvium of examples of most
excellent American technology in all fields.
Why should American high-end speakers be inferior? If they charge enough
there is no reason for cheap components.
I prefer British audiophile equipment but that is just because I got to know
it best in the years I live there. The American market is less known to
me. I have no doubt however that there must be excellent brands, it's just
a matter of finding them.
Unless you have clear technical reasons for you statement, I'll like to hear
them, otherwise it means you have a more or less hidden agenda. I'll pass
on that, thanks. |
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mcsteve
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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"shannon" wrote:
| Quote: | (One of the Brit Row directors mentioned to me years ago one day he would
really like to get Dave Martin, Tony Andrews and John Meyer in a room
together and get them to tell us who really invented midrange phase
plugs).
|
It was Al Gore, wasn't it? ;-)
--
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Steve M
(remove "x" from email addy, to contact directly) |
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shannon
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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Tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | "shannon" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message news:435d5567@clear.net.nz...
tiglath wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:
Turbo TQ310DP and Turbo TQ115DP - neodymium magnet makes sub
lightweight,
goes very very loud and sounds great.
This seem hard to find in stock in the U.S. There is a dearth of
distributors, although I can see one or two. Being import they are
probably overpriced.
Does Renkus-Heinz or other American manufacturers have comparably good
models?
Cheers
With American made components ?
No.
I don't understand.
Is that a blanket statement against all American technology? I hope it's
not because you could simply be drowned in a diluvium of examples of most
excellent American technology in all fields.
Why should American high-end speakers be inferior? If they charge enough
there is no reason for cheap components.
I prefer British audiophile equipment but that is just because I got to know
it best in the years I live there. The American market is less known to
me. I have no doubt however that there must be excellent brands, it's just
a matter of finding them.
Unless you have clear technical reasons for you statement, I'll like to hear
them, otherwise it means you have a more or less hidden agenda. I'll pass
on that, thanks.
|
Its the nature of OEM component manufacturing.
Manufacturers source their components globally, so some of the best pro
speaker systems use OEM drivers from various countries like Italy France
Spain Thailand Germany and Brazil. These are assembled from components
like pulp cones made in specialist facilities in other countries, voice
coils, formers basket castings, magnets, pole pieces, t-plates, dampers,
and adhesives all with specialist OEM sources.
A driver from Spain or Thailand is as likely to have a US made cone in
it as one made in the US.
Even final assembly in the USA is no guarantee of price/performance,
since even the best wood for cabinets is likely to be imported from Finland.
The US has great heritage audio manufacturing names like JBL EV Crown
Crest QSC Shure, but often companies get bought for their brand and used
to peddle dodgy crap.
The US also has great audio visionaries like John Meyer and Kenton
Forsyth who have made their own great products by picking from the best
OEM manufacturers and saving their resources for R&D.
There is a vast complex geneology behind the evolution of the pro kit we
use today, from cinema kit onwards. I hope someone charts it some day.
(One of the Brit Row directors mentioned to me years ago one day he
would really like to get Dave Martin, Tony Andrews and John Meyer in a
room together and get them to tell us who really invented midrange phase
plugs).
No disrespect to the US intended |
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Ron(UK)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | I belive British top guitar amps still use tubes.
No, they use valves. |
RonUK
--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
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Tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | Is that a blanket statement against all American technology?
|
America has technology? I thought they still liked 2 way speakers with 15"
bass/mids, they still have this magical affinity for "tubes" (that's valves
for everyone else) and that they still think the SM58 is the best mic in the
world for everything.
| Quote: | Why should American high-end speakers be inferior? If they charge
enough there is no reason for cheap components.
|
They /generally/ aren't. Certainly the EAW and Meyer stuff I've listened to
sounds fine - JBL stuff can be good too.
| Quote: | I prefer British audiophile equipment but that is just because I got
to know it best in the years I live there. The American market is
less known to me. I have no doubt however that there must be
excellent brands, it's just a matter of finding them.
|
I hate the word "audiophile" but British pro audio gear is designed to sound
right, often a bit more mid-forward than the American boom-and-tizz sound.
The advantages to buying local of course are being able to demo the gear
before buying.
--
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving / And
revolving at 900 miles an hour / That's orbiting at 19 miles a second,
so it's reckoned, / A sun that is the source of all our power. / The
sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see, / Are moving at a
million miles a day / In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour,
/ Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way. |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
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Tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | By what you say I glean that all manufacturers operate similarly,
except those not bought out yet. People who buy a Jaguar and think
are buying time-honored British tradition might not know they are
getting a Ford and all it's manufacturing quirks. The same for
audio.
|
So which ford uses a bonded aluminium chassis and shell? The XJ and
forthcoming XK are unrelated to anything else in the very large Ford stable.
The S type and X type use Ford based chassis.
Engines? The diesel V6 is a British / French design and is the best in
class, the V6 and V8 are based on Ford castings but with Jaguar valvetrains.
Same goes for Volvo. It makes sense for the low end models to share parts as
much as possible and it allows flagship / halo models to be diverse and
individual.
Loudspeaker manufacturers are very similar - low end models will be using
mass produced eastern european or asian compression drivers (maybe to a
custom design, maybe not). High end models are more likely to be using
exclusively designed drivers.
--
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving / And
revolving at 900 miles an hour / That's orbiting at 19 miles a second,
so it's reckoned, / A sun that is the source of all our power. / The
sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see, / Are moving at a
million miles a day / In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour,
/ Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way. |
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tiglath
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
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Tim S Kemp wrote:
| Quote: |
America has technology?
|
It sounds like sour grapes for Jamestown. That other problem you guys
had with insurgents...
| Quote: | I thought they still liked 2 way speakers with 15"
bass/mids,
|
The U.S. makes tops with 10" and 12" too. All it means is that we
recognize that you have the right to sign a bad contract or make the
wrong choice of speakers, and that someone will cater for it.
| Quote: | they still have this magical affinity for "tubes" (that's valves
for everyone else)
|
It's 'tubes' or 'valves' for a tiny minority (snobs still count as just
one).
(Can you explain 'off-license' for 'liquor store'? Yes, I know there
are pub licenses and liquor stores don't need one. They don't need a
'last-orders' bell either, why not, 'no-bell shop'? People on islands
are wired differently, indeed, sometimes for the better but not
always...)
(Or why are property taxes call "rates"? Was it really safer for the
king to raise rates than raise taxes? Some eloquence in Westminster, I
tell you, instead of cutting taxes they changed the name.)
I belive British top guitar amps still use tubes.
| Quote: | --
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving [... good stuff...]
|
The proto-Mongolians who came to America through the Alaskan land
bridge during the last Ice Age eventually reached Patagonia at the tip
of South America. It took them 30,000 years. That is roughly 4 years
for each mile. An average speed of 1.8 inches/hour.
What kept them? Find out. Visit America. No drizzle. No toupees
(hurricanes love them). In England if you disagreed with the
established order and tried to move away the grey sea stopped you
sooner that you could lose sight of the pitchforks, thus making
conformism a must. In America, you could lose say, the 15" top crowd
and never see them again, and do your thing. Design new speakers, make
a colony, and long may you run. In England some inbred aristocrat not
unlike Tim Roth could take your girlfriend to his castle and bye-bye
love. Here we don't have them, aristocrats. Only people with vulgar,
thick wads of cash that can choke a horse, in their back pockets,
mainly Texan, can do that, but you can shoot them (in Texas). |
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Tim S Kemp
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
|
tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | (Can you explain 'off-license' for 'liquor store'? Yes, I know there
are pub licenses and liquor stores don't need one. They don't need a
'last-orders' bell either, why not, 'no-bell shop'? People on islands
are wired differently, indeed, sometimes for the better but not
always...)
|
Off licenses need a drinks license - it is a Licencse to sell alcoholic
beverages for consumption off the premises, hence "off" license. It's
actually illegal to drink alcoholic drinks in front of the off license too.
Pubs generally are licensed to sell for consumption on or off premises.
| Quote: | (Or why are property taxes call "rates"? Was it really safer for the
king to raise rates than raise taxes? Some eloquence in Westminster,
I tell you, instead of cutting taxes they changed the name.)
|
That's what all governments do, hide taxation.
--
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving / And
revolving at 900 miles an hour / That's orbiting at 19 miles a second,
so it's reckoned, / A sun that is the source of all our power. / The
sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see, / Are moving at a
million miles a day / In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour,
/ Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way. |
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tiglath
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:04 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
|
Tim S Kemp wrote:
| Quote: | tiglath wrote:
(Can you explain 'off-license' for 'liquor store'? Yes, I know there
are pub licenses and liquor stores don't need one. They don't need a
'last-orders' bell either, why not, 'no-bell shop'? People on islands
are wired differently, indeed, sometimes for the better but not
always...)
Off licenses need a drinks license - it is a Licencse to sell alcoholic
beverages for consumption off the premises, hence "off" license.
|
Silly me, why didn't I think of THAT.
Hmmmmm.
They need a floor and walls too, if they want to hold on to the
merchandise, so it's off floor too, or more aptly, off the wall.
I belief, however, that is not the meaning of "off" here, if I remember
correctly the pub landlord who explained it to me. 'Off' has the same
meaning as in, "off the record." I think the case is that pubs need a
drinks (consumption) license, but the liquor stores don't so they are
let off the license requirement.
I am still wondering whether I should go with the Renkus rig or the
Turbosound rig. The HR PN121/9 + DR18-1, with 12" tops and 18" subs is
about the same price as the Turbo 10" tops + 15" subs. All other
things being equal it might be a bigger sound.
Some systems seem to sound best when you only use a fraction of their
maximum power, there is a sense of effortlessness in the sound. Yet
others sound best when driven hard. Without hearing the Turbos and the
RHs there is no way to know. You are lucky for your demos. I hate to
buy blind. |
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shannon
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:17 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
|
Tiglath wrote:
| Quote: | "shannon" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message news:435da51b$1@clear.net.nz...
Tiglath wrote:
"shannon" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:435d5567@clear.net.nz...
tiglath wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:
Turbo TQ310DP and Turbo TQ115DP - neodymium magnet makes sub
lightweight,
goes very very loud and sounds great.
This seem hard to find in stock in the U.S. There is a dearth of
distributors, although I can see one or two. Being import they are
probably overpriced.
Does Renkus-Heinz or other American manufacturers have comparably good
models?
Cheers
With American made components ?
No.
I don't understand.
Is that a blanket statement against all American technology? I hope
it's
not because you could simply be drowned in a diluvium of examples of
most
excellent American technology in all fields.
Why should American high-end speakers be inferior? If they charge
enough
there is no reason for cheap components.
I prefer British audiophile equipment but that is just because I got to
know
it best in the years I live there. The American market is less known
to
me. I have no doubt however that there must be excellent brands, it's
just
a matter of finding them.
Unless you have clear technical reasons for you statement, I'll like to
hear
them, otherwise it means you have a more or less hidden agenda. I'll
pass
on that, thanks.
Its the nature of OEM component manufacturing.
Manufacturers source their components globally, so some of the best pro
speaker systems use OEM drivers from various countries like Italy France
Spain Thailand Germany and Brazil. These are assembled from components
like pulp cones made in specialist facilities in other countries, voice
coils, formers basket castings, magnets, pole pieces, t-plates, dampers,
and adhesives all with specialist OEM sources.
A driver from Spain or Thailand is as likely to have a US made cone in
it as one made in the US.
Even final assembly in the USA is no guarantee of price/performance,
since even the best wood for cabinets is likely to be imported from
Finland.
The US has great heritage audio manufacturing names like JBL EV Crown
Crest QSC Shure, but often companies get bought for their brand and used
to peddle dodgy crap.
The US also has great audio visionaries like John Meyer and Kenton
Forsyth who have made their own great products by picking from the best
OEM manufacturers and saving their resources for R&D.
There is a vast complex geneology behind the evolution of the pro kit we
use today, from cinema kit onwards. I hope someone charts it some day.
(One of the Brit Row directors mentioned to me years ago one day he
would really like to get Dave Martin, Tony Andrews and John Meyer in a
room together and get them to tell us who really invented midrange phase
plugs).
No disrespect to the US intended
Thank you for the explanation.
By what you say I glean that all manufacturers operate similarly, except
those not bought out yet. People who buy a Jaguar and think are buying
time-honored British tradition might not know they are getting a Ford and
all it's manufacturing quirks. The same for audio.
But still by your earlier comment, one would think that is a problem
exclusive to the U.S.
|
Its not a problem, there are US sound companies touring with systems
made in France using components made in Spain, and they compete in a
free market with systems made in the US from local and imported sources.
You asked about US made products vs imports because you thought that
Turbosound equipment was probably overpriced because it was imported.
I was pointing out that the domestic component of competing US brands
like EAW may in some cases be only the design and the final assembly labor. |
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Joe Kotroczo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:15 am Post subject:
Re: Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer? |
|
|
On 25/10/05 00:39, in article uod7f.14778$i31.3223@trnddc08, "Tiglath"
<temp3@tiglath.net> wrote:
(...)
| Quote: | With American made components ?
No.
I don't understand.
Is that a blanket statement against all American technology? I hope it's
not because you could simply be drowned in a diluvium of examples of most
excellent American technology in all fields.
Why should American high-end speakers be inferior? If they charge enough
there is no reason for cheap components.
|
The question is: is it in this day and age still cost-effective to produce
speaker components in the us? Who is still manufacturing components in the
US? EV and JBL? Or have they outsourced already?
At the moment, the best components on the market do seem to be made in
places like Italy or Spain, not in the US.
The fact that integration (the actual building of entire speakers) is still
cost-effective at a local level has something to do with the shipping costs
of high-volume high-weight items.
But even the wood they use to build the speakers is very often not local.
As always: I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong.
--
Joe Kotroczo kotroczo@mac.com |
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