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GMAN
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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In article <1128702828.365650.62800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, relaxification@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
But just saying they are identicle dont make it so. What is the bitrate
before conversion and then afterwards?
To cram 4 hours on a single layer DVD-R is compressing the holy hell out of
the video.
Well, just because it doesn't make it so doesn't mean it isn't so.
And it is. So.
Tytools replaces the headers on the .ty files and makes useable mpegs
which you can then author. I agree that the compression is high, but
it's done at the directv end. There is no recompression done on your
PC.
Proof? How long would it take to recompress a 2 hour film on a fast
PC? Half an hour? An hour? 2 hours?
Processing the .ty file into a .vob takes about 2 minutes. Beyond the
fact that I find it hard to believe that it's recompressing anything,
just go to dealdatabase and have a look at what tytools does. It will
be made abundantly clear to you that there is no recompression taking
place.
OK, thats cool. and i am not doubting one bit that you guys are right that it |
is better to do it with the data transfer and using tytools. I just want an
educated response of what the average bitrate you guys are seeing on the
DVD's.
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GMAN
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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In article <jackzwick-20E9DF.03551207102005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>, Jack Zwick <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <di4n80$nkl$1@news.xmission.com>,
glenzabr@xmission.com (GMAN) wrote:
But just saying they are identicle dont make it so. What is the bitrate
before conversion and then afterwards?
To cram 4 hours on a single layer DVD-R is compressing the holy hell out of
the video.
Nope. If you extract the TY file from a DirecTv, your resulting mpg2 file
is a pure digital transformation and as such only takes up ~ 1 Gig per
hour; and is a perfect video, i.e. you can a/b it from the
original DirecTv broadcast and not tell the difference.
And so you get 4 + hours of video on a standard 40 cent DVD-R,
as opposed to only 2 hours if you want anything of vaguely similar
quality if you go through digital -> analog -> digital transformation.
You are not going to fit 4 hours of video on a single layer DVD unless its at |
a very low bitrate.
Can someone who has the knowledge of how to do it get me the average bitrate
that it is recording the 4+ hours of video at?
Stick the resultant DVD into PowerDVD or something and let me know the average
and maximum bitrate it is playing at please. |
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GMAN
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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In article <11kbsqp41gi313b@corp.supernews.com>, Mike Hunt <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 2005-10-07, GMAN <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote:
But just saying they are identicle dont make it so. What is the bitrate
before conversion and then afterwards?
To cram 4 hours on a single layer DVD-R is compressing the holy hell out
of the video.
I think the point is you're not changing the bitrate. What you put on
your DVD is the exact same data coming down the satellite feed. You
aren't compressing it any more than it already is so you are saving as
perfect of a copy of the data as you have access to.
That cannot be possible. There must be some transcoding taking place. There is |
no way in hell the bitstream coming of the directv bird is already in the
exact proper DVD compliant mpeg2 format. If it was, you could directly feed
it into Nero and burn. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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GMAN wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1128702828.365650.62800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, relaxification@hotmail.com wrote:
But just saying they are identicle dont make it so. What is the bitrate
before conversion and then afterwards?
To cram 4 hours on a single layer DVD-R is compressing the holy hell out of
the video.
Well, just because it doesn't make it so doesn't mean it isn't so.
And it is. So.
Tytools replaces the headers on the .ty files and makes useable mpegs
which you can then author. I agree that the compression is high, but
it's done at the directv end. There is no recompression done on your
PC.
Proof? How long would it take to recompress a 2 hour film on a fast
PC? Half an hour? An hour? 2 hours?
Processing the .ty file into a .vob takes about 2 minutes. Beyond the
fact that I find it hard to believe that it's recompressing anything,
just go to dealdatabase and have a look at what tytools does. It will
be made abundantly clear to you that there is no recompression taking
place.
OK, thats cool. and i am not doubting one bit that you guys are right that it
is better to do it with the data transfer and using tytools. I just want an
educated response of what the average bitrate you guys are seeing on the
DVD's.
|
Never having checked bitrate on a DVD before, what tool do you
recommend? I'll check a Deadwood DVD - HBO has higher bitrates than
cable. |
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GMAN
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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In article <1128843099.562770.277960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, relaxification@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
GMAN wrote:
In article <1128702828.365650.62800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
relaxification@hotmail.com wrote:
But just saying they are identicle dont make it so. What is the bitrate
before conversion and then afterwards?
To cram 4 hours on a single layer DVD-R is compressing the holy hell out
of
the video.
Well, just because it doesn't make it so doesn't mean it isn't so.
And it is. So.
Tytools replaces the headers on the .ty files and makes useable mpegs
which you can then author. I agree that the compression is high, but
it's done at the directv end. There is no recompression done on your
PC.
Proof? How long would it take to recompress a 2 hour film on a fast
PC? Half an hour? An hour? 2 hours?
Processing the .ty file into a .vob takes about 2 minutes. Beyond the
fact that I find it hard to believe that it's recompressing anything,
just go to dealdatabase and have a look at what tytools does. It will
be made abundantly clear to you that there is no recompression taking
place.
OK, thats cool. and i am not doubting one bit that you guys are right that it
is better to do it with the data transfer and using tytools. I just want an
educated response of what the average bitrate you guys are seeing on the
DVD's.
Never having checked bitrate on a DVD before, what tool do you
recommend? I'll check a Deadwood DVD - HBO has higher bitrates than
cable.
|
One way to do it is just to place the dvd in a home dvd player and push
whatever button pulls up the display that shows time remaining and it will
also display the bitrate of the dvd. At least it does on my pioneer and sony
players. Also on the pc, using something like POWERDVD 4.0 or higher, you just
enable the onscreen info for the "Show Info" button and it will display the
bitrate. |
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Joe Smith
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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Mike Hunt wrote:
[quote]I think the point is you're not changing the bitrate. What you put on
your DVD is the exact same data coming down the satellite feed.
[/quote]
There are no DirecTV-with-TiVo-and-DVD-burner units.
A DirecTiVo will play back the exact same data as coming from
satellite, but an external DVD recorder gets only analog video.
The TiVo-with-DVD-burner samples analog signals at bitrates
specifically designed to match DVD specifications. These
bitrates are not the same as used for satellite receivers.
-Joe |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:30 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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On 2005-10-12, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
[quote]Mike Hunt wrote:
I think the point is you're not changing the bitrate. What you put on
your DVD is the exact same data coming down the satellite feed.
There are no DirecTV-with-TiVo-and-DVD-burner units.
A DirecTiVo will play back the exact same data as coming from
satellite, but an external DVD recorder gets only analog video.
[/quote]
That's only true if the DVD recorder is recording analog input. If you
burn a .mpg file to the DVD (via a computer), it's possible to burn the
exact same data as coming from satellite onto the DVD.
--
This is my .sig |
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Joe Smith
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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Mike Hunt wrote:
| Quote: | On 2005-10-12, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
A DirecTiVo will play back the exact same data as coming from
satellite, but an external DVD recorder gets only analog video.
That's only true if the DVD recorder is recording analog input. If you
burn a .mpg file to the DVD (via a computer), it's possible to burn the
exact same data as coming from satellite onto the DVD.
|
Yes, you can do that, but it may not be playable on a regular
DVD player. Some players of persnickety about horizontal resolution.
-Joe |
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Large Marge
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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| Quote: | One way to do it is just to place the dvd in a home dvd player and push
whatever button pulls up the display that shows time remaining and it will
also display the bitrate of the dvd. At least it does on my pioneer and sony
players. Also on the pc, using something like POWERDVD 4.0 or higher, you just
enable the onscreen info for the "Show Info" button and it will display the
bitrate.
I tried it on my Pioneer DVD player: |
Shrek2 DTivo (HBO) -> TYtools -> DVD = 1.2-3.2 Mbps
Animal House (pressed DVD) 3.3-8.9 Mbps |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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On 2005-10-13, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Hunt wrote:
On 2005-10-12, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
A DirecTiVo will play back the exact same data as coming from
satellite, but an external DVD recorder gets only analog video.
That's only true if the DVD recorder is recording analog input. If you
burn a .mpg file to the DVD (via a computer), it's possible to burn the
exact same data as coming from satellite onto the DVD.
Yes, you can do that, but it may not be playable on a regular
DVD player. Some players of persnickety about horizontal resolution.
|
Of course. If your player work fine with this, then you are getting the
best picture quality available. That's all we've been saying. If your
player does not like this, then you have to convert the data and you will
lose quality. Some testing is required to see if your player can handle
the best picture or if you have to downgrade your quality to appease your
player. Most people are able to burn the .mpg directly and watch it
without issues.
--
This is my .sig |
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GMAN
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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In article <Z4v3f.18717$at1.801@trnddc05>, Large Marge <msmith@home.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
One way to do it is just to place the dvd in a home dvd player and push
whatever button pulls up the display that shows time remaining and it will
also display the bitrate of the dvd. At least it does on my pioneer and sony
players. Also on the pc, using something like POWERDVD 4.0 or higher, you
just
enable the onscreen info for the "Show Info" button and it will display the
bitrate.
I tried it on my Pioneer DVD player:
Shrek2 DTivo (HBO) -> TYtools -> DVD = 1.2-3.2 Mbps
Animal House (pressed DVD) 3.3-8.9 Mbps
Wow, only 1.2 to 3.2 Mbps. That is very pisspoor bitrate. |
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Mike Hunt
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:44 am Post subject:
Re: Perhaps not so ready to hack after all. |
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On 2005-10-13, GMAN <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <Z4v3f.18717$at1.801@trnddc05>, Large Marge <msmith@home.com> wrote:
One way to do it is just to place the dvd in a home dvd player and push
whatever button pulls up the display that shows time remaining and it will
also display the bitrate of the dvd. At least it does on my pioneer and sony
players. Also on the pc, using something like POWERDVD 4.0 or higher, you
just
enable the onscreen info for the "Show Info" button and it will display the
bitrate.
I tried it on my Pioneer DVD player:
Shrek2 DTivo (HBO) -> TYtools -> DVD = 1.2-3.2 Mbps
Animal House (pressed DVD) 3.3-8.9 Mbps
Wow, only 1.2 to 3.2 Mbps. That is very pisspoor bitrate.
|
What type of bitrate do you think DirecTV broadcasts non-HD at?
The above numbers are quite typical. Also, bitrate isn't necessarily a
good predictor of quality, things like codecs, encoding methods, etc. play
a significant role in lowering the bitrate but maintaining a certain level
of quality. If you don't like how DirecTV SD broadcasts look, you can
switch to HD or another carrier, but saving the data via tytools is the
only way to save the feed "unmodified" to a DVD. Any other method will
only make it worse, even if you use a process that makes the bitrate go
up.
--
This is my .sig |
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