| Author |
Message |
Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd stay away from Scully 8 track RTRs, just on general principles. And I'd
stay away from Tascam units too, even though I owned a 38 for 10 years. Did
a good job, but it limited my abilities to do a better job.
|
I would second that, WITH an exception for the Scully 280B, which is actually
a nice machine. The original 280 is a machine to avoid like the plague, and
if you find a 100 that hasn't met the crusher already, it might be worth helping
it go there.
| Quote: | I kinda agree with Mike Rivers on an Ampex 1200 (better than the 1100) 2"
and although a lot of clients won't want to pay the money for tape, at least
it can sound really good. It ain't light so you'll have to have someone
local who does studio calls for maintenance and repairs.
|
The 1100 is still a nice machine, and both the 1100 and 1200 are fairly easy
machines to work on. There are a lot of them out there that have been beat
to hell, though.
The 440-8 is selling for very little these days, but again a lot of them are
in rough shape. You need to buy from somebody who you can trust to sell you
what you're paying for.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
|
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
In article <5qxpd.50188$Ro.2032404@news20.bellglobal.com> chris@sympatico.ca writes:
| Quote: | One consideration is that right now, this is a (fairly serious) hobby
for weeknights and weekends; I don't ever imagine myself having clients
of either the paying or non-paying variety in my apartment, nor am I
pursuing a career in sound engineering. Basically I want to put out
some records that 10+ people like and am totally not expecting to make
any money here
|
In that case, your choice of a small format recorder will be fine. But
understand that while your music may be cool, and appreciated by 10+
people, you won't turn out recordings that sound the same as
commercial CDs. This may not be a concern to you (your listeners won't
complain) but it's a common concern of just about everyone who uses
"professional quality" and "in my home" in the same message.
| Quote: | My biggest flaw is that I'm a perfectionist, and it takes many takes for
me to get something "just right". In that respect, I'm thankful for
MIDI, but I'm also rather worried that I might start killing my tape by
recording over it ... and over it ... and over it.
|
Tape is remarkably robust, particularly full width tape. But these
days the way that perfectionists tend to work is on a computer
workstation, recording a part over and over, and assembling the "just
right" parts of each take into a complete take. Some people find that
this level of perfection makes for lifeless recordings (and it often
does) - it depends on the form of music. Some kinds of music are
really only acceptable if perfect rhythmically, with perfect pitch and
volume control. Other forms of music are successful because of natural
freedom of rhythm and dynamics, and you might record a part many times
to get that feeling just right.
| Quote: | Well, the onboard thing on the Alesis certainly sucks at panning, and if
you overload the mixer it sounds like shoe.
|
Panning isn't as convenient as turning a knob until the phantom image
appears where you want it, but if there's a slider, or even a number
you can enter, you can control panning. Internal levels are a problem
wiht any mixer, but they do tend to be more of a problem with an
integral mixer because you can't really monitor what's going into it.
But this is just a matter of learning your tools.
| Quote: | The drums on the JoMoX are
positioned within the stereo field on the stereo outs; I probably don't
always want their opinion of where my drums should be.
|
There's no way to change the panning? Some really basic drum machines
have fixed panning, generally based on a traditional drum kit, but I
thought the JoMoX was a really flexible system.
| Quote: | On a related note, I've always had the (perhaps misguided) opinion that
the middle range of stuff just isn't really worth it in terms of what
you get for your dollar.
|
It depends on what you consider "middle range." If a Neve or an API
(orignal new prices) is a top range console ($200K) and a TASCAM is a
low range console ($3500 for a pretty good sized 3700), then a $60K
Sony or MCI or a $20K Soundcraft TS24 would be considered "middle
range" and they were indeed pretty good buys. There's of course a
difference in sound, but there's a difference in sound between any
consoles. The point is that many mid-range studios flourished in the
'90's and '90's with "mid range" consoles. Those studios are now
either totally out of business or have moved to ProTools, so the
consoles are available for little money. But they're physically large,
not really suitable for the typical hobbyist in an apartment.
TASCAM consoles always had a problem with EMI, which is much worse
today with cell phones, cordless phones, wireless networks in the
home, computers, and such that they didn't have to contend with when
the consoles were initially designed. Mackie came along later and
(whether through concern for EMI, concern for ruggedness, or just dumb
luck) are pretty clean in this respect. A Ghost is like a better
Mackie 8-bus, but it's not really a "lesser MCI." But it's possible to
make a decent recording with any of those lower priced consoles. It's
just that it sometimes takes more time and trimming before you get it
right. This is frustrating to some people and leads to the "no
headroom" or "useless EQ" complaints. But a lot of great sounding
records were made with consoles with less.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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Chris Pickett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
EganMedia wrote:
| Quote: | I just can't bear to deal with all this extra software
... and upgrading computers ... and bugs ... it's totally demotivating
to me. >><BR><BR
Wait until a bad voltage regulator in you 20 year old 80-8 makes the take up
reel motor suddenly run at half speed in the middle of fast forwarding a reel.
You'll wish you could give it the "three finger salute". Digital gear
certainly does have it's bugs and faults. But cheap, old analog gear is
probably going to be even less reliable, especially considering things like
capacitors getting leaky with old age, pinch rollers drying out and becoming
slippery uneven head wear, and noisy old pots and faders. If you like noisy
recordings you can always use shitty cable and cheap mic preamps. Good,
up-to-spec analog gear is quiet and transparent. OTOH, Master anything poorly
to cheap recycled vinyl and it will have the "vintage" pops and crackles so
often mislabeled "warmth".
|
I feel like I need to clarify a couple of things. I don't really think
the crunchy, lo-fi, retro sound that is all the rage right now is all
that cool; in other words, this pursuit isn't a silly fad thing for me.
In the last 8 years, I've bought about 1500 records, most of them
brand new, and I've listened to ten times that number in shops. I'm
really quite sure that I want high quality vinyl (no pops and crackles)
and for the recordings to come from tape: the few records I've heard
that do come from tape (most techno/house producers now use digital
audio) have this magical quality to them, and that's almost certainly
without using 1/8"-per-track machines ... yes, I can imagine a better
environment would have only made them better.
Second, I work with computers all day; I write software for them,
configure operating systems, design and implement programming languages,
and play with really powerful CPU's. Irrespective of the fact that I
use Linux exclusively (and don't have access to industry-grade products
like Cubase and Logic), there's only so much staring at a screen that I
can handle. It's like, you work at a golf club, 50-60 hours a week --
when you finally have a day off, do you really want to go and play golf?
Might be a bad analogy, I don't golf.
| Quote: | I know this came off as harsh. There certainly is a lot of fun to be had with
analog gear. Just don't delude yourself into believing that a 20 year old,
narrow guage semi-pro analog deck (and it's matching Ramsa T820B console) will
cause you less grief than a good PC and an Mbox. If you're locked into MIDI
already, addding a huge analog component to your recording chain will almost
certainly double the odds equipment failure. A well tweaked computer (or
better yet a purpose-built stand alone HD recorder) can actually be pretty
reliable.
|
Your points are well-taken, and appreciated. I keep flip-flopping on
the issue, but from all that I keep hearing from you guys, it now seems
that what I should look for is a good 1" 8-track and a respectable
32-channel console to go with it. Preferably local, due to shipping
concerns, and since Montreal likely has something in store for me.
The MIDI stuff I have and will buy is all analog (MIDI is just control
signals). I can't think of any (affordable) digital sound sources that
I like better over their analog equivalents ... especially not for the
kind of music I'm doing, where realism is not an issue. I'm also quite
interested in doing things like building analog effects pedals, and then
integrating MIDI chips into them.
I guess it's not so much about avoiding problems and getting a
rock-solid reliable working environment as 1) doing something different
from all the blah-fucking-blah electronic music recorded on computers,
2) learning about this immense history of recording that's getting swept
away by the digital age, and 3) having a fun hobby to keep me sane
during a Ph.D.; that includes to a certain extent fixing things and
replacing components and calibrating equipment.
Cheers,
Chris |
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Chris Pickett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
Scott Dorsey wrote:
| Quote: | Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
I'd stay away from Scully 8 track RTRs, just on general principles. And I'd
stay away from Tascam units too, even though I owned a 38 for 10 years. Did
a good job, but it limited my abilities to do a better job.
I would second that, WITH an exception for the Scully 280B, which is actually
a nice machine. The original 280 is a machine to avoid like the plague, and
if you find a 100 that hasn't met the crusher already, it might be worth helping
it go there.
|
Okay, I hear you about Tascam and Scully.
| Quote: | I kinda agree with Mike Rivers on an Ampex 1200 (better than the 1100) 2"
and although a lot of clients won't want to pay th money for tape, at least
it can sound really good. It ain't light so you'll have to have someone
local who does studio calls for maintenance and repairs.
The 1100 is still a nice machine, and both the 1100 and 1200 are fairly easy
machines to work on. There are a lot of them out there that have been beat
to hell, though.
The 440-8 is selling for very little these days, but again a lot of them are
in rough shape. You need to buy from somebody who you can trust to sell you
what you're paying for.
|
I found this thread quite interesting:
http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/276/0/0/
especially with slipperman's roundup at the bottom of the page. I found
the history behind the Stephens 24 machine pretty fascinating: totally
unconventional design, models that kept changing, out of this world
sound, Stephens himself would be the only one you could ask for advice
and you'd have to phone him while in transition houses or in *jail*, and
just in June some studio had to fly him out to fix their recorder. I'm
not thinking about trying to get one, but I'm certainly damn curious ...
Speaking of the Ampex 1200, there's one that used to be on eBay for
$1400, with 1" 8-track heads and needing a new motor (estimated $500).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=3763071761&rd=1
Is something like this too sketchy to go for? Is learning to service my
own gear (whatever brand) really unfeasible?
Chris |
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Chris Pickett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
Mike Rivers wrote:
| Quote: | In that case, your choice of a small format recorder will be fine. But
understand that while your music may be cool, and appreciated by 10+
people, you won't turn out recordings that sound the same as
commercial CDs. This may not be a concern to you (your listeners won't
complain) but it's a common concern of just about everyone who uses
"professional quality" and "in my home" in the same message.
|
I do actually want more than just 10 people to like it. I think what I
meant more was, the number one priority is myself liking it.
If you mean CD's with the mastering job typical of top 40 radio songs
these days, I certainly don't want that. But I appreciate that it will
be hard to get studio-quality sound at home. I would prefer not to make
CD's at all, but rather focus on high-grade vinyl -- there's certainly
enough of a market to move 1000 copies of a good EP in North America.
Basically, I would be happy to produce something that I can send to the
mastering house / pressing plant without them totally screwing up or
being unable to work with the recording and get some nice records back.
Anyway, as I said elsewhere, I'm now thinking about 1" 8-tracks (as
opposed to 1" 16-tracks, which still aren't full-width).
| Quote: | Tape is remarkably robust, particularly full width tape. But these
days the way that perfectionists tend to work is on a computer
workstation, recording a part over and over, and assembling the "just
right" parts of each take into a complete take. Some people find that
this level of perfection makes for lifeless recordings (and it often
does) - it depends on the form of music. Some kinds of music are
really only acceptable if perfect rhythmically, with perfect pitch and
volume control. Other forms of music are successful because of natural
freedom of rhythm and dynamics, and you might record a part many times
to get that feeling just right.
|
The lifelessness and lack of good mistakes or happy accidents imposed by
excessive editing and the temptation to get sucked into that is a big
part of the reason I want to use computers as little as possible. I
guess that's not necessarily the best substitute for achieving true
self-discipline.
| Quote: | There's no way to change the panning? Some really basic drum machines
have fixed panning, generally based on a traditional drum kit, but I
thought the JoMoX was a really flexible system.
|
No, it's really fixed. If you want to pan, use the individual outs. If
I did the drums all on my Andromeda, it wouldn't be a problem, but it's
not as easy to get good, usable sounds. I'm thinking about replacing
the thing with it's ancestors, the Roland TR-808, TR-909, and CR-78.
But that's another $2-3K.
| Quote: | On a related note, I've always had the (perhaps misguided) opinion that
the middle range of stuff just isn't really worth it in terms of what
you get for your dollar.
It depends on what you consider "middle range." If a Neve or an API
(orignal new prices) is a top range console ($200K) and a TASCAM is a
low range console ($3500 for a pretty good sized 3700), then a $60K
Sony or MCI or a $20K Soundcraft TS24 would be considered "middle
range" and they were indeed pretty good buys. There's of course a
difference in sound, but there's a difference in sound between any
consoles. The point is that many mid-range studios flourished in the
'90's and '90's with "mid range" consoles. Those studios are now
either totally out of business or have moved to ProTools, so the
consoles are available for little money. But they're physically large,
not really suitable for the typical hobbyist in an apartment.
TASCAM consoles always had a problem with EMI, which is much worse
today with cell phones, cordless phones, wireless networks in the
home, computers, and such that they didn't have to contend with when
the consoles were initially designed. Mackie came along later and
(whether through concern for EMI, concern for ruggedness, or just dumb
luck) are pretty clean in this respect. A Ghost is like a better
Mackie 8-bus, but it's not really a "lesser MCI." But it's possible to
make a decent recording with any of those lower priced consoles. It's
just that it sometimes takes more time and trimming before you get it
right. This is frustrating to some people and leads to the "no
headroom" or "useless EQ" complaints. But a lot of great sounding
records were made with consoles with less.
|
It would seem my theory doesn't scale that well to non-consumer goods.
There are a couple consoles here
http://blevinsaudioexchange.com/consoles.html#SNDWKSHP
at around $3000 that I could probably afford, a 24-channel MCI and two
28-channel Sound Workshops, but that's starting to push what I'm
prepared to pay at this point; they're also quite big (64" and 87"). I
think I'm gonna have to start looking around in Montreal. I'm likely
leaving this city in 2-3 years, and also might be doing some summer
internships in Toronto in the meantime, which means moderate portability
is also an issue.
Cheers,
Chris |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
In article <sYMpd.60620$Ro.2281435@news20.bellglobal.com> chris@sympatico.ca writes:
| Quote: | Speaking of the Ampex 1200, there's one that used to be on eBay for
$1400, with 1" 8-track heads and needing a new motor (estimated $500).
|
Heads are a good thing, and unless the motor is missing, it can be
rebuilt (though $500 may not be too far off).
| Quote: | Is something like this too sketchy to go for? Is learning to service my
own gear (whatever brand) really unfeasible?
|
I'd find out exactly what it is (and isn't) and see what it will take
to put it in good shape. Learning to service your own recorder is
worth while. Making routine adjustments is pretty straightforward.
You'll need to invest some cash in a reference (alignment) tape and
some test equipment, but those recorders have real manuals that tell
you how to do it.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
In article <wKMpd.74262$Le1.1486573@news20.bellglobal.com> chris@sympatico.ca writes:
| Quote: | Your points are well-taken, and appreciated. I keep flip-flopping on
the issue, but from all that I keep hearing from you guys, it now seems
that what I should look for is a good 1" 8-track and a respectable
32-channel console to go with it. Preferably local, due to shipping
concerns, and since Montreal likely has something in store for me.
|
How do you feel about a stand-alone digital recorder, perhaps a TASCAM
DA-38 or DA-78 (sound pretty good and use Hi-8 tape cassettes) or a
stand-alone hard disk recorder? Used Mackie MDR24/96 24-track
recorders are going for around $1,000 these days. They don't have the
mechanical problems assoicated with tape recorders, they have
dedicated software that you don't (have to) screw with, and the
electronic components are new enough so that you won't have to replace
capacitors or be tempted to upgrade to better ICs. Plus they (to a
greater or lesser extent, depending on which recorder) sync to MIDI so
you can use your MIDI tracks as reference, and maybe use a few of them
in the final recording.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
CHris wrote:
| Quote: | want to pan, use the individual outs. If I did the drums all on my
Andromeda, it wouldn't be a problem, but it's not as easy to get
good, usable sounds. I'm thinking about replacing the thing with
it's ancestors, the Roland TR-808, TR-909, and CR-78. But that's
another $2-3K.
I always liked the Alesis d-4 for a drum module. Imho wider variety |
of sounds and 8 individual outs. THere's been one for sale here in
the NEw ORleans paper for a picture of MR. Franklin recently. Had I
the spare Ben I would've bought it for my collection just for a spare
cause I like that drum module. NOt into hip hop but into jazz
straight ahead rock blues and folk music however, so the 808 etc.
isn't quite my thing.
Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email
-- |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
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|
In article <K2Opd.60664$Ro.2299224@news20.bellglobal.com> chris@sympatico.ca writes:
Randy Blevins is one of the best people you can buy a console from,
particularly an MCI. That's his specialty and you'll know exactly what
you're getting. If you pay for it, you can get one from him that's
been completely gone over and better than new, or you can buy one that
he's checked out and can tell you exactly what shape it's in and
what's not up to par so you can either fix it, have him fix it, or
live with it.
| Quote: | I'm likely
leaving this city in 2-3 years, and also might be doing some summer
internships in Toronto in the meantime, which means moderate portability
is also an issue.
|
Well, having helped Harvey Gerst install an MCI console (that he,
who's perfectly capable of rebuilding a console himself, bought it
ready to go from Blevins) I can attest to the fact that it's not
portable. Or you can ask any of the other ten people who helped get it
off the truck and into the control room.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
Chris Pickett <chris@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Scott Dorsey wrote:
Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
I'd stay away from Scully 8 track RTRs, just on general principles. And I'd
stay away from Tascam units too, even though I owned a 38 for 10 years. Did
a good job, but it limited my abilities to do a better job.
I would second that, WITH an exception for the Scully 280B, which is actually
a nice machine. The original 280 is a machine to avoid like the plague, and
if you find a 100 that hasn't met the crusher already, it might be worth helping
it go there.
Okay, I hear you about Tascam and Scully.
|
Tascam actually made some reasonable 2" machines for a while, which I would
not hesitate to grab. But the narrowtrack machines, well, they are narrowtrack
machines.
| Quote: | I found this thread quite interesting:
http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/276/0/0/
especially with slipperman's roundup at the bottom of the page. I found
the history behind the Stephens 24 machine pretty fascinating: totally
unconventional design, models that kept changing, out of this world
sound, Stephens himself would be the only one you could ask for advice
and you'd have to phone him while in transition houses or in *jail*, and
just in June some studio had to fly him out to fix their recorder. I'm
not thinking about trying to get one, but I'm certainly damn curious ...
|
This is sort of exaggerated. A lot of the problem was the unconventional
design, but a lot of it was just the lack of proper service documentation.
Today the Stephens machines aren't too bad to work on, and most of the
parts are reasonably easy to make in a well-equipped shop.
I dunno. But I would not buy a machine with suspicious heads and a known-bad
motor unless I was possibly considering learning to do motor rebuilds. Which
is a fun thing to do, but the question you have to ask is whether you want to
learn to do maintenance work or play music. Both can be fun.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
In article <znr1101513785k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <K2Opd.60664$Ro.2299224@news20.bellglobal.com> chris@sympatico.ca writes:
There are a couple consoles here
http://blevinsaudioexchange.com/consoles.html#SNDWKSHP
Randy Blevins is one of the best people you can buy a console from,
particularly an MCI. That's his specialty and you'll know exactly what
you're getting. If you pay for it, you can get one from him that's
been completely gone over and better than new, or you can buy one that
he's checked out and can tell you exactly what shape it's in and
what's not up to par so you can either fix it, have him fix it, or
live with it.
|
I should add that he is ALSO a really good guy to buy a tape machine from.
So is Boynton Studios.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Aaron J. Grier
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:07 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
|
|
Chris Pickett <chris@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Yeah ... digital can certainly be cheap, especially when you consider
how readily available music warez are. However, I work with and
program computers all day (I'm a grad student in computer science),
and when it comes to music, I just can't bear to deal with all this
extra software ... and upgrading computers ... and bugs ... it's
totally demotivating to me.
|
I understand. but remember that well-designed and executed embedded
software is indistinguishable from gnomes. do you worry about the
software running on your andromeda's coldfire CPU?
there are plenty of standalone digital recorders which function for all
intents and purposes like analog decks. at the extreme high-end you've
got the iZ RADAR systems, and down the chain standalone boxes from
Yamaha, Roland/BOSS, TASCAM, etc. you can pretend they're run by magic
pixies instead of embedded CPUs.
| Quote: | I almost don't even want to use a computer-based sequencer, even
though it's probably the only practical option for MIDI.
|
there are standalone MIDI sequencers. I've gotten a lot of mileage out
of my ASQ-10, and there are plenty of new and used choices out there. I
suggest looking at standalone sequencers from Akai and Yamaha to start.
| Quote: | I know for sure that I'll have fun with tape; it's something real,
something that I can touch ... I've had fun for years DJing with vinyl
records and making cassette recordings. There's also the aspect of
unlimited control that comes with digital stuff that just doesn't
inspire me to be creative. I don't really know how else to explain
myself on this front ... is it really that weird and/or naive?
|
I'm kind of the same way. not having a screen to look at forces you to
LISTEN. distractions and choices are limited, forcing you to produce
something rather than tweak endlessly.
however, decent digital these days is cheaper and less work than decent
analog. tape requires a significant ongoing commitment to regular
maintenance and media costs. digital is cheap by comparison.
| Quote: | Anyway, I am leaning towards a lower budget now, as I outlined in the
response to Mike. If for some reason I hate it / can't deal with it,
then I haven't wasted much money, and if I love it, then I'll do the
best I can with it and have a much better view of what I want / need.
|
if you're on a budget, don't rule out the standalone digital stuff. a
lot of it shares similar workflow aspects of tape, even if it doesn't
quite smell the same.
--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofygoof.com
"someday the industry will have throbbing frontal lobes and will be able
to write provably correct software. also, I want a pony." -- Zach Brown |
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rickymix
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
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Chris, I fail to understand what you plan to do with the analog
recorder. Why not just record and edit everything in MIDI? Quantize
what you want to quantize, and leave leads, solos, etc un-quantized,
just as they were performed. And you'd have almost infinite tracks
for alternate takes, etc.
Because trust me, you'll run out of 8 analog tracks in a flash,
especially if any of the parts are in stereo. In the 80's and 90's
we'd constantly be running out of tracks on a 2" 24-track machine
doing that type of stuff. We'd always be comping stuff together to
make room for vocals and other non-MIDI parts. Pain in the butt, and
if you're all-MIDI anyways, I don't know why you'd want to torture
yourself. Sure, there are some artistic advantages to being forced to
make decisions, but there are usually a lot of more productive ways to
channel your creativity rather than getting bogged down in that
quagmire.
What I might do in your situation is to get a good analog mixer,
like a Speck, with a lot of channels for all your synths and FX and
then perhaps record your final stereo mix to an analog 2-track such as
an Ampex-102. Or rack your gear up and then book a few hours in a pro
studio to dump it onto an analog 2-track once you've recorded and
tweaked it to your heart's content in MIDI. Or record to DAT and then
dump it to analog with your mastering guy.
If you just want to learn how to do maintenance on old analog
gear; intern with a studio or tech. They'll be thrilled to have you.
But if you really just want to get your music recorded, it strikes me
that your headed for a huge sidetrack tangent. If I've missed
something in your previous posts that explains why you want to do this
to yourself, then please forgive me.
Good luck, Rick Novak. |
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EganMedia
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
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| Quote: | The lifelessness and lack of good mistakes or happy accidents imposed by
excessive editing and the temptation to get sucked into that is a big
part of the reason I want to use computers as little as possible. I
guess that's not necessarily the best substitute for achieving true
self-discipline.
|
Exactly. You can use as much or as little of the editinig capabilities of a
DAW as you would like. Just because you have a Ferrari doesn't mean you have
you drive 150MPH. It'll go just as slow as a 1979 Chevy Monza.
You mention that 2-3K will opush the limit of what you're willing to spend for
an analog console. If you want to even begin to exploit the possibility of a
large format analog board you'll need to spend almost that much on harnessing,
assuming it comes with a comprehensive patchbay. Without a patchbay, double
that amount.
I wont post on this thread again. You're obviously free to do what yuou want.
But with your relatively tiny budget, I would advise strongly against trying to
buy a large format console and a full track width tape deck. Thee ones you'll
be able to afford (after paying for the shipping and harnessing) are bound to
be old, tired pieces in need of serious maintenance. Nothing impedes music
making lkike equipment failure. If you think KLEZ can slow you down, wait til
you meet MOLEX.
Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup |
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In article <co8oqn$ku9$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:
| Quote: | Randy Blevins
I should add that he is ALSO a really good guy to buy a tape machine from.
So is Boynton Studios.
|
Is Boynton still in the used equipment business? They were one of the
first to sell used gear, but it seems that I read that they were
getting out of that and just selling new gear and doing service.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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