| Author |
Message |
Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:28 am Post subject:
Violin pickup |
|
|
Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
thnx
marc
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Bob Urz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:35 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
Marc Amsterdam wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
thnx
marc
You can always use a Zeta..... |
Bob
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Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:58 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:35:06 -0500, Bob Urz <sound@inetnebr.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Marc Amsterdam wrote:
Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
thnx
marc
You can always use a Zeta.....
for tango? i'm not entirely sure he would trade in his 200+ year |
violin for a zeta...... :-)
| Quote: | Bob
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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SSJVCmag
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:13 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On 9/25/05 6:28 PM, in article hv7ej11bofc83v839goa2vhm6pg9r6pv8e@4ax.com,
"Marc Amsterdam" <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
|
NOT something I've used,
but I have had their products mentioned as a VERY good non-screechy
alternative to the usual things...
And they aren;t inordinately expensive...
http://www.kksound.com/violinissimo.html |
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WJ
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
"Marc Amsterdam" <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:hv7ej11bofc83v839goa2vhm6pg9r6pv8e@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
thnx
marc
|
We've gone through this at our church lately. A violin just doesn't sound
as good through a bridge-mounted pickup as it does miced. But sometimes you
just gotta, so you're working damage control. You can get a workable sound,
even if it isn't that miced sound. I can't offer you advice on the pickup
you're looking at, but I can tell you something else I found out. You
should consider a decent preamp to go with whatever pickup you get. Our
violin player didn't have a huge budget to work with, and settled on a
Presonus TubePRE. Even that $100 unit sounded worlds better than running
the violin pickup into a passive DA box and relying on the console preamps.
I suspect that a big part of the difference is sending the signal down 150'
of snake at line level instead of low level. If she'd had the money, I'd
have recommended a channel strip unit designed for vocals which would have
given parametric EQ and even some compression as well.
Cheers,
Walt |
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hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
SSJVCmag wrote:
| Quote: | "Marc Amsterdam" wrote:
Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
NOT something I've used,
but I have had their products mentioned as a VERY good non-screechy
alternative to the usual things...
And they aren;t inordinately expensive...
http://www.kksound.com/violinissimo.html
|
They do make what is to me the very best acoustic guitar transducer.
--
ha |
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hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
Marc Amsterdam <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
|
You might want to contact David Enke of Pickup The World, who offer a
range of contact transducers for string instruments which many folks
seem to prefer to the Baggs kit. I have a Baggs bridge pickup on a 1921
Gibson A2 mandolin, and though it works, it's not much like the actual
sound of the mando, nor all that pleasing in tone. I have worked with
several violinists using the Baggs and the sound was nothing to write
home about, even if the players and their insturments were very good,
which they were. I have a K&K Pure Western transducer in a 1969 Gibson
J50 that sounds more like a mic on the guitar than any other pickups
I've tried. I think these pickups are similar technology to the PUTW
units. You might check to see if K&K provide fiddle pickups.
David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
719-742-5303
K&K Sound Systems, Inc.
PO Box 626
Coos Bay, OR 97420
http://www.kksound.com/
info@kksound.com
(541) 888-3517
1-800-867-6863
Fax: (541) 888-4846
An important part of this equation is the DI or preamplifier into which
the pickup feeds. At the lower cost end the Baggs Paracoustic DI is
great value for money. At the other end is the Eclair Engineering Evil
Twin, which though orignially designed as a bass guitar DI works a treat
with anything I send it, bass guitar, electric guitar, acoustic guitar
w/K&K, mandolin w/Baggs, and keyboards. It isn't cheap but perhaps it is
in keeping with the quality of a 200 yr. old violin. Mind you, it's flat
out to 100 KHz.
Also, the DI inputs on the new mackie Onyx line of mixers are
surprisingly good, and a small one of those costs less than an Evil Twin
or any other high-end DI.
--
ha |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
I've got a resonator guitar with a transducer mounted under the cone
and I use one of these
http://www.tech21nyc.com/acousticdi.html
when I want to here the "natural" sound along with the electric guitar
pickups that I gouged into the body. I've used it on a friend's
upright bass too and it seemed to help. Also used it on Amanda's
original fiddle back before she got her a 5 string electric pink pain
maker. Believe it or not - old Fender tweed Deluxe amps work pretty
good for transducer fiddles - I've seen some Nashville types using them. |
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Tim Scott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
"Marc Amsterdam" <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:hv7ej11bofc83v839goa2vhm6pg9r6pv8e@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
|
This is shame as I've always got good results from a MKE2 clipped to the
bridge. |
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|
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hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:29 am Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
Tim Scott wrote:
| Quote: | "Marc Amsterdam" wrote...
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
This is shame as I've always got good results from a MKE2 clipped to the
bridge.
|
Hard not to hear way to much rosin 'n' bow from there. The Kronos
Quartet uses Countryman mics there for the special effects, but KM140's
on the floor behind each player for the actual "natural" instrument
sounds.
--
ha |
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| Back to top |
|
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Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:48:05 -0700, "WJ" <waltj@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Marc Amsterdam" <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:hv7ej11bofc83v839goa2vhm6pg9r6pv8e@4ax.com...
Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
any input is most welcome
thnx
marc
We've gone through this at our church lately. A violin just doesn't sound
as good through a bridge-mounted pickup as it does miced. But sometimes you
just gotta, so you're working damage control. You can get a workable sound,
even if it isn't that miced sound. I can't offer you advice on the pickup
you're looking at, but I can tell you something else I found out. You
should consider a decent preamp to go with whatever pickup you get. Our
violin player didn't have a huge budget to work with, and settled on a
Presonus TubePRE. Even that $100 unit sounded worlds better than running
the violin pickup into a passive DA box and relying on the console preamps.
I suspect that a big part of the difference is sending the signal down 150'
of snake at line level instead of low level. If she'd had the money, I'd
have recommended a channel strip unit designed for vocals which would have
given parametric EQ and even some compression as well.
|
the channel strip/ pre amp will be the ones on a midas legend, and if
necessarily an Klark Techniks DI
thing is that especially with using bridge pickups there is no
experimenting around, installing them costs time and is a one of as it
involves adaptation of the bridge and in case of the LR baggs bringing
in a new bridge...
cheers
marc |
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Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 02:26:12 +0100, "Tim Scott"
<tim.scott@nospamplease.orange.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Marc Amsterdam" <reply@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:hv7ej11bofc83v839goa2vhm6pg9r6pv8e@4ax.com...
Hi
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
This is shame as I've always got good results from a MKE2 clipped to the
bridge.
is does sound fine if you can ignore the steamtrain noises from the |
player.....( not to mention the sigar qualm that hangs around him) |
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Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:29:39 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:
| Quote: | Tim Scott wrote:
"Marc Amsterdam" wrote...
Having a sightliness problem for next theatre show i'm "somewhat
forced" to give up my cmc5/mk4 on a boom and trade it in for a pickup
having heard of
http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_violin.shtml
as a fair alternative I wonder if there is anyone here having some
actual hands on experience with then. since the only info i have is
from muso's i haven't had the possibility to play with it myself
(violin is most definitely not recommendable to be heard playing by
me...:-)
having a microphone close to the bridge gives me way to much bow and
unacceptable breath noise ( the guy puffs like a steam train)
so far i've tried an isomax as well as a variety of DPA miniature
(paternwise) as mke2, all with no luck.
This is shame as I've always got good results from a MKE2 clipped to the
bridge.
Hard not to hear way to much rosin 'n' bow from there. The Kronos
Quartet uses Countryman mics there for the special effects, but KM140's
on the floor behind each player for the actual "natural" instrument
sounds.
|
I've used the isomaxes but i think they sound way to sharp and i don't
want to EQ the music out of the signal. Kronos is alway's nice to hear
but then again there is simply no way in getting a boom above the
voilin.
later today i will be on the phone with SD systems, see if i can pick
up one of their LCM's and try it, they sound splendid but as things
are now my main goal is to loose the huffin & puffin |
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Servojohn
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
I have the Baggs bridge. For the fiddle it's mounted on( good
master-built instrument), it is the best sounding pickup so far. I
have used a Barbera bridge before this, and many others prior. I also
have about a dozen ATM 35 clip on condensors spread around on violins,
violas, and cellos.
Either type of setup produces a very direct, up front sound, with
little ambience. This can be dealt with by using FX, or by doubling up
and having a mic on a stand too. One trick with this is to not run the
mic on a stand through the monitors, just the pick up or clip on
signal.
As has been mentioned, pick up bridges require a pre amp or DI with
high input impedance. I typically route the Baggs through an ART Tube
MP, similar to the Presonus mentioned elsewhere in the thread. The
type of device used in the bridge(Piezo transducer) needs the higher
input impedance to keep from loading the circuit poorly, and lose
signal quality(diminished high end response being a common symptom).
DI boxes like the Countryman will provide a decent match with a pick up
as well.
The setup with a tube preamp provides a lot of gain if needed, and
minimal feedback.
Best regards,
John Halliburton
www.baaltinne.com |
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Marc Amsterdam
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Violin pickup |
|
|
On 26 Sep 2005 08:56:19 -0700, "Servojohn"
<j_challiburton@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I have the Baggs bridge. For the fiddle it's mounted on( good
master-built instrument), it is the best sounding pickup so far. I
have used a Barbera bridge before this, and many others prior. I also
have about a dozen ATM 35 clip on condensors spread around on violins,
violas, and cellos.
Either type of setup produces a very direct, up front sound, with
little ambience. This can be dealt with by using FX, or by doubling up
and having a mic on a stand too. One trick with this is to not run the
mic on a stand through the monitors, just the pick up or clip on
signal.
As has been mentioned, pick up bridges require a pre amp or DI with
high input impedance. I typically route the Baggs through an ART Tube
MP, similar to the Presonus mentioned elsewhere in the thread. The
type of device used in the bridge(Piezo transducer) needs the higher
input impedance to keep from loading the circuit poorly, and lose
signal quality(diminished high end response being a common symptom).
DI boxes like the Countryman will provide a decent match with a pick up
as well.
The setup with a tube preamp provides a lot of gain if needed, and
minimal feedback.
hmm i got some countryman DI boxes around. |
I think it is time to convince the violin player to do some mods on
his violin.
I'l post my experiences with it here
many milions thanks!
Grrzz
Marc
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