| Author |
Message |
Kurt Albershardt
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
| Quote: | In article <znr1101397782k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
There's a pretty good used computer store around here that regularly
has 4si printers for between $60 and $100 depending on age, condition,
and amount of memory installed. But it's just a couple of inches too
big for where I want to put it - not to say that I can't move
something to make room for it. But I'm also a bit concerned about
power consumption. I think that model was still from the period where
there wasn't significantly lower standby power. This whole corner of
the house where the computers are is on a single 15A circuit so I
don't want to have a couple of hundred watts worth of printer sitting
there drawing current all the time.
The 4si has a power-saving standby mode, but the 3si does not. (The
3si is the same mechanical transport with a different processor...
postscript rendering on the 3si is also noticeably slower).
The 4M and 4M+ printers are probably a better choice if you want
something smaller. The transport speed is about a third of what the
4si speed is, but the postscript rendering is about half as fast. It
takes up less than half the desk space. SOME of the 4M printers have
a power saving standby mode and some do not; it depends on the firmware
revision. All of the 5M printers do; the 5M is mechanically similar
but not quite identical to the 4M and has much more advanced electronics.
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I have a 5P and a 6MP which are both going strong after what, 10 years now?
| Quote: | The new Brother printers draw much less current printing, and very
little when idle.
Yes, but just wait until it comes time to change the print cartridge....
they cost as much as a new printer.
|
Bingo. Some basic TCO math will help put things in perspective.
If you're buying new, the HP 2300 is a pretty nice little package. We have a 1300 here that seems to be doing okay. Avoid the 1100 at all costs, they have been nothing but trouble here.
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Glenn Dowdy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101385788k@trad...
| Quote: |
In article <10qauujofvdmo93@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:
[Lightscribe]
But still requires a special drive and special disks. Even if HP
could get all drive makers to incorporate the firmware, the discs
would likely still cost more because of the extra processing
required and likely lower volume.
I notice that "Licensing" is right up there at the top of their web
page. If they offer the firmware at a trivially low price, then it
will find its way into most of the drives appearing on the market in a
couple of years. Then they can make their money on the disks.
If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
over and burn the label side.
|
"burn flip burn"
| Quote: | I'd guess that this takes longer than
printing and sticking a paper label.
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At this point, yes. But you can't use a paper label or write on a DVD disc.
| Quote: | People don't like stuff that
makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.
And 52x is where they'll stay. Any faster and the media tends to come apart |
catastrophically. I've seen photos of the testing.
Glenn D. |
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Glenn Dowdy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qc6fkn84bnv58@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | "Mike Rivers" wrote ...
If the laser arrangement is the same as a standard drive as Glenn
says, I suppose that you burn the audio side of the disk, then turn it
over and burn the label side. I'd guess that this takes longer than
printing and sticking a paper label. People don't like stuff that
makes them wait, particularly when they can't see what's happening.
That's why we have 52X CD writers, and we still have impatient users.
Not to mention that it is black&white only while you can print
full color (photographic quality, even) with inkjet, whether on
labels or directly on the disc.
It's a first release, and will continue to get better and better. But that's |
okay, HP sell ink cartridges, too.
Glenn D. |
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Glenn Dowdy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qbh6et4rrqt4f@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | "Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
How does thermal work on DVDRs?
Troy" wrote ...
It actually is a little different printing on a DVDR compaired
to a CDR.When you print just black thermal on a silver top
DVDR it looks a little strange,kind of like printing black on a
mirror,at least it has been with the DVDRs I have used.We prefer
to use thermal white top DVDRs and print them full color on
top.Black also looks great on the white background.
I guess I didn't understand the question OR the answer.
Thermal printing on "silver" disks looks the same whether they
are CDR or DVDR. Printing on white "printable" disks looks
the same whether it is a CDR or DVDR disc.
I know that DVDR has stricter labeling requirements due to the additional |
coating. Blu-ray could be even more temperamental.
Glenn D. |
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Glenn Dowdy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1101347885k@trad...
| Quote: |
In article <10qa1ls2stmema0@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:
LightScribe
It is a cool idea, but too little, too expensive, too late, I fear.
Hey, it's digital marketing. They'll always be able to sell The Next
Great Thing. Your next computer will have a Lightscribe drive so
you'll want to buy the disks.
:) |
Glenn D. |
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Richard Crowley
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:12 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:ScmdnWu22e5-JDvcRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10qbh6et4rrqt4f@corp.supernews.com...
"Glenn Dowdy" wrote ...
How does thermal work on DVDRs?
Troy" wrote ...
It actually is a little different printing on a DVDR compaired
to a CDR.When you print just black thermal on a silver top
DVDR it looks a little strange,kind of like printing black on a
mirror,at least it has been with the DVDRs I have used.We prefer
to use thermal white top DVDRs and print them full color on
top.Black also looks great on the white background.
I guess I didn't understand the question OR the answer.
Thermal printing on "silver" disks looks the same whether they
are CDR or DVDR. Printing on white "printable" disks looks
the same whether it is a CDR or DVDR disc.
I know that DVDR has stricter labeling requirements due to the additional
coating. Blu-ray could be even more temperamental.
|
Bud DVDs have a very thick (relatively) plastic layer between
the label and the data where CDs have just a coat of lacquer.
The stricter requirements for DVD relate to the rotational speed,
not the nature of the sandwich layers of the disc. |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Scott Dorsey wrote:
The 4M and 4M+ printers are probably a better choice if you want
something smaller. The transport speed is about a third of what the
4si speed is, but the postscript rendering is about half as fast. It
takes up less than half the desk space. SOME of the 4M printers have
a power saving standby mode and some do not; it depends on the firmware
revision. All of the 5M printers do; the 5M is mechanically similar
but not quite identical to the 4M and has much more advanced electronics.
I have a 5P and a 6MP which are both going strong after what, 10 years now?
|
Okay, now the 5P is a different thing altogether. That has a very different
and much flimsier print engine that is not intended to hold up to high
volume industrial use. If it's going strong now, I wouldn't complain, but
I wouldn't buy one used since the more rugged models aren't much more money.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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agent86
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Mike Rivers wrote:
| Quote: | For about a year now, I've been threatening to get a Brother laser
printer for paper as soon as I run out of ink for my current inkjet.
But while the cost of the printer has come down to around $100 the
toner is still up there.
|
The toner cartriges are more costly per unit that inkjet cartriges, But
they last practically forever (by comparison). I worked in office
situations where a half acre of cubilce dwellers shared twp HP lasers (one
color, one B&W). I can't imagine trying that with an inkjet. You'd need
one person whose only job was to change ink cartriges. |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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In article <co65pf$fef$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:
| Quote: | The new Brother printers draw much less current printing, and very
little when idle.
Yes, but just wait until it comes time to change the print cartridge....
they cost as much as a new printer.
|
That's why they can sell the printers so cheaply. Actually a cartridge
is about $60 at Office Depot, roughly the same as a cartridge for
about the same size/speed printer, but there are cheaper aftermarket
HP cartridges and I haven't seen any for the Brother printers (yet,
anyway).
I've had my current Epson inkjet since 2000, and even with aftermarket
cartridges, I'm sure I've spent more on ink than the printer cost, but
it's still pretty cheap for the capability.
I suspect that, as usual, I'll do nothing (except maybe order a couple
more ink cartridges) until the current printer dies. And, no, I don't
do refills. I don't print that much and it's not worth the mess.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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Kurt Albershardt
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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agent86 wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Rivers wrote:
For about a year now, I've been threatening to get a Brother laser
printer for paper as soon as I run out of ink for my current inkjet.
But while the cost of the printer has come down to around $100 the
toner is still up there.
The toner cartriges are more costly per unit that inkjet cartriges, But
they last practically forever (by comparison). I worked in office
situations where a half acre of cubilce dwellers shared twp HP lasers (one
color, one B&W).
|
I think you may be comparing apples and oranges here. The HP lasers (even the little ones, but maybe not the littlest one) are cheaper per page than inkjets. The Brother might not be. |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:16 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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In article <30p80gF3024viU2@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:
| Quote: | I think you may be comparing apples and oranges here. The HP lasers (even the
little ones, but maybe not the littlest one) are cheaper per page than
inkjets. The Brother might not be.
|
While cost per page is certainly a legitmate measure of operating cost
of a printer, since I doubt that I print 500 pages per year (based on
the amount of paper that I buy), the saving of a cheaper printer is
down in the noise - kind of like going to another gas station because
their gas is 3 cents per gallon cheaper. The difference in a year
might barely amount to a three-martini lunch.
Two things that annoy me most about my present printer are these:
First, if I haven't used it in a day, or even in several hours, it
pumps, steams, grinds and probably wastes some ink preening itself for
close to a minute before the page comes out. What good is 20, or even
5 pages per minute if it takes a minute to get the one page I want to
print?
Second is that it doesn't run out of ink gracefully. The printing
doesn't get weak for a few days, just one day it won't print and will
need a new ink cartridge. It means I must either have one on the shelf
(don't know about the shelf life of these) or be prepared to pay full
price for a genuine Epson at Office Depot or Staples because they
never seem to have third party cheapies for this printer.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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Kurt Albershardt
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Mike Rivers wrote:
| Quote: |
Two things that annoy me most about my present printer are these:
First, if I haven't used it in a day, or even in several hours, it
pumps, steams, grinds and probably wastes some ink preening itself for
close to a minute before the page comes out. What good is 20, or even
5 pages per minute if it takes a minute to get the one page I want to
print?
|
This sucks and is why I don't like inkjets for day-to-day printing needs.
| Quote: | Second is that it doesn't run out of ink gracefully. The printing
doesn't get weak for a few days, just one day it won't print and will
need a new ink cartridge. It means I must either have one on the shelf
(don't know about the shelf life of these) or be prepared to pay full
price for a genuine Epson at Office Depot or Staples because they
never seem to have third party cheapies for this printer.
|
The Epson status monitor is pretty good about this (although I hate how it pops up every time you print, even when everything is hunky-dory.) It actually says things like "you can print approximately 110 pages like the last one before you run out of ink" and shows you the levels of all the ink cartridges. I print until the thing refuses to proceed before I change a cartridge. |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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In article <30q6b1F31p17uU1@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:
| Quote: | The Epson status monitor is pretty good about this (although I hate how it pops
up every time you print, even when everything is hunky-dory.) It actually
says things like "you can print approximately 110 pages like the last one
before you run out of ink
" and shows you the levels of all the ink cartridges.
|
I don't recall that it estimates the number of pages left on the
cartridge - maybe it does and I've never noticed, but there's a bar
graph. But it's like a gas gage on a car - it will work sometimes for
weeks with the bar at zero, so when it gets low, I start thinking
about whether I want to buy a new cartridge or buy a new printer. Then
I do that until I run out of ink and buy a new cartridge.
| Quote: | I print until the thing
refuses to proceed before I change a cartridge.
|
Me, too, but it won't even print black if the color cartridge runs
out. I almost never print in color, but still the color cartridge
needs to be replaced a couple of times a year, or at least the printer
things it does. I've been able to fool it by removing the color
cartridge and put it back in. Then, the indicator will show a full
color cartridge and it prints black again (but when I try to print in
color it looks like it's out of ink).
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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S O'Neill
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Kurt Albershardt wrote:
| Quote: | It actually says things like "you can print approximately 110 pages
like the last one before you run out of ink" and shows you the levels
of all the ink cartridges.
|
It told me the same thing until the next page I printed (then it was
suddenly out). It will also say the same thing whether you just printed
a typed black draft or a glossy color photo.
| Quote: | I print until the thing refuses to proceed before I change a
cartridge.
|
I had 3 color carts on the verge of being empty, then it finally refused
to print until I changed one of them. Then it refused to print (the
same page) until I changed the next one. It did this dance, one color
at a time, until I had gone through them all, even the near-empty ones.
So don't believe anything besides Full, Half-full, and Change Me Now.
These, of course, are things you already know. |
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S O'Neill
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:09 am Post subject:
Re: Are CD-R labels safe to put on masters? |
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Mike Rivers wrote:
| Quote: | In article <_d6dnSW1NvKrJTXcRVn-2A@omsoft.com> nopsam@nospam.net writes:
So don't believe anything besides Full, Half-full, and Change Me Now.
These, of course, are things you already know.
And "Change Me Now" is "Forget it!"
We ARE talking about printers here, aren't we, and not babies, or
electrolytic capactiors."
|
I thought it was Water Heaters. |
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