| Author |
Message |
Mike Rivers
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:15 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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In article <5dfa6183.0411281003.4f408943@posting.google.com> sue42155@yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | the AKG C414 "sound" is all over the map.
So it is, or was it a popular recording mic for vocals ??
|
I've been fooling around with this stuff for more than 30 years, back
when there were a relatively few mic choices. Back then the C414 and
its predecessors were pretty popular for vocals. I have one that I
often will try first on a lyrical female vocal and more often than not
it works out well enough so that we don't bother to try anything else.
But I can tell by listening to a singer that it won't work and I don't
bother to try.
Today it's hard to say what's popular for vocals, if I had to answer
that question, I'd say a U47 or maybe a Telefunken 251, but they're
only popular to the extend that you read about them in the projects
that make it to articles in the recording magazines. There are far
more people using Neumann TLM103s, or Rodes, or MXLs or Shures because
most people don't have $5,000 or more to put into a microphone.
| Quote: | the cheaper Neumann gave me
the truest representation of my voice. So instead of trying to find
something that "warms my voice up" your saying I sould do that with
maybe effects instead of ending up with a mic that would color my
voice in some way?
|
Well, it's great if you can just walk up to a microphone, sing, and it
sounds exactly the way you like it. But maybe your voice sounds
different on a different day, or you're doing a different kind of song
and you want your voice to be airy rather than come-here-dark-and-sexy.
If you have a mic that gives you an airy sound you like, and another
mic that gives you the sexy sound you like, and so on, not only will
you have a lot of mics but you'll need to decide which one to use.
This is fine if you have the time and the money, but when you're just
getting started putting money into this hole in the ocean, it's best
to start out with something that you can use for a variety of sounds
by helping it along in the control room rather than something that has
one great sound and you can't really get rid of it when you don't want
it.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
|
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Kurt Albershardt
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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Mike Rivers wrote:
| Quote: | In article <5dfa6183.0411272349.4c5c2259@posting.google.com> sue42155@yahoo.com writes:
If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90.
I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?
With the exception of the Stedman, more like old chestnuts. They might
have a PL20 which is the same as an RE20 but sold to the live sound
market rather than the broadcast or studio market (different box). The
SM7 is pretty specialized, as is the Stedman so you're not likely to
find one of those easily.
|
Both of which are readily available (from stock) at broadcast supply houses, <http://www.bswusa.com/> for example. |
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John L Rice
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:28 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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| Quote: | If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think
you
might be surprised by one of those.
I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?
|
I'm (pretty) sure there must be at least one dealer in Atlanta that must
stock RE-20's. Or you could call a couple local studios to find one that
has an RE-20 ( and hopefully other mics you are interested in ) and buy an
hour of time or so to try them out ( $15 to $80 in a studio is probably a
better investment than taking a few hours for free in Guitar Ceter etc )
Any one here on RAP in GA that can help out Sue?
The PL-20 is pretty much the same as the RE-20 and sometimes can be found
cheaper.
| Quote: | Also what Neumann model do you have, the TLM103? If so you should
compare it
to a Neumann TLM 193, which I think might be complementary on your
voice.
Also try a Soundelux U195 if you can.
I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it?
|
The list price of a TLM193 is something like $1200 ot $1400 but the two I
have I purchased used on Ebay for $650 and $750 at different times. They
are both in perfect shape and sound great. YMMV. Here's one on Ebay right
now. (I don't know the seller) :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=3765861375&rd=1
| Quote: | And consider a CAD E300 or E350 ( may not handle really loud passages
well )
Don't have these guys either, but I'll put them on the list.
|
And FYI - the CAD E300 or E350 have been out of production for a while so
you'd need to find a used one.
| Quote: | and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )
I tried the BLUE, but it didn't sound very good with my voice. I think
I'm gonna try it again when I go back to pick up the 103 because
people keep recommending it.
Thanks again John,
|
You are welcome Sue.
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
In article <30vjnlF35r939U1@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:
| Quote: | Both of which are readily available (from stock) at broadcast supply houses,
http://www.bswusa.com/> for example.
|
But that's not a place Sue can go to try out the mics. She'd have to
buy them unheard, try them at home, and return them if she didn't like
them. That's a good way to do it for sure, but narrowing down the
choice at a shop is probably a better way to start.
I've lost track of what she has, what she's decided to keep, and what
she's decided to (or even can) return, so maybe she can do some home
comparisons.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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Paul Stamler
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
"Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411281222.5c88b221@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | If you're looking for a warmer sound, see if you can find a used Beyer
M260
on ebay, or, yes, check out the new AKG C414B-ULS. For a brighter sound,
maybe the C414B-ULII might be worth looking at,
|
Oops -- correcting my own recommendation: the new microphones are the
C414B-XLS (flat) and C414B-XLII (bright). Nicer than their predecessors.
Also see if you can listen to the Neumann TLM-193. Less bright than the
TLM-103.
| Quote: | By the way, I liked your voice on the site; very mobile, esp. on the R&B
songs.
Thanks so much. And also thanks for taking the time to listen. I love
singing and writing that old school R&B stuff. Please check back
sometime!
|
Will do.
Peace,
Paul |
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Sue G. Wilkinson
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<DDWod.964586$Gx4.912020@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
| Quote: | "Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411232118.a255b80@posting.google.com...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.
I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.
If you're looking for a warmer sound, see if you can find a used Beyer M260
on ebay, or, yes, check out the new AKG C414B-ULS. For a brighter sound,
maybe the C414B-ULII might be worth looking at, but here's a suggestion out
of left field: see if you can try a Beyer M88. I think if I were going to
record you with a Neumann, it'd be a U-87, rather than one of the
less-expensive ones.
Hey Paul, |
Thanks for responding! I've always had great luck with Beyer's in live
situations and AKG's when recording. I tried a 414 out at the store
but I'm not sure if it was one of your choices so I'm going to go back
and see if they have either of these. For a store as large as Guitar
Center their choices are limited.
| Quote: | By the way, I liked your voice on the site; very mobile, esp. on the R&B
songs.
Thanks so much! I like that..."very mobile" Please come see a gig if |
I'm ever in your area!
Peace to you too,
sgw
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Sue G. Wilkinson
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1101651751k@trad>...
| Quote: | In article <5dfa6183.0411272338.1b79430a@posting.google.com> sue42155@yahoo.com writes:
The B.L.U.E. [Blueberry] was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice,
This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.
Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).
If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
Try a few mics that are too expensive. If one doesn't sound as good to
you as something you can afford, it will make you feel better. And if
they all sound better than what you can afford, at least you'll have a
standard of comparison. And don't be afraid to try mics that don't
look big and bulky.
The interface between the microphone and preamp (or mixer, or whatever
you're using for an input device in your home recording setup) makes a
difference too, but just to give everything you try a fair chance, use
something lowish-middle-of-the-road for all the mics. The MARS music
stores used to have a mic demo room with all the mics connected to
Mackie mixers which were less than optimum for most mics, but at least
it was a constant. Something like that would be OK. Using the best mic
preamp in the shop, unless you were prepared to buy it, would be
unfair.
btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.
|
Hey Mike,
Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps? Maybe
your favorite. And thanks for the suggestions of testing mics. I went
through about 5 or 6 mics and pretty rapidly was able to tell what
worked and what didn't work. I'm just about to hook up the Rode K2
with the Eureka here at home. So I hope I don't blow anything up. I've
turned on the phantom power on my D1600. Is this correct?
Happy Holidays!
sgw
| Quote: |
It's fairly new, and just hitting the magazine reviews this month.
Presonus usually does a pretty good job, so it's bound to be a fair
deal. Not exotic, but it's not likely to be a deterrent to making a
decent vocal recording. If that's what you have, then use that for
your test recordings. It has a lot of bells and whistles, too, so
bypass those to hear the basic sound of the mic. |
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Sue G. Wilkinson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
Loren Amelang <loren@pacific.net> wrote in message news:<28ckq0tc52lsncce8rvhjl4fmbnq93hq7r@4ax.com>...
| Quote: | On 28 Nov 2004 12:27:05 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
...
This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.
Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).
If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
...
Sue,
I've been listening to the RealAudio from your web site while reading
today's news. I fully realize that is a pale reflection of your sound
and your equipment. I'm just a consumer of music much more often than
a producer, but I have some thoughts I'd like to explore.
I started with the R&B, and "See About Me" was the only cut where I
felt I could really hear your voice. In the others I found myself
wishing for the "veil" to go away. Is there something about the
studio, the equipment, the mix, or the RealAudio processing that is
obviously different for "See About Me? The Pop tracks seem to be
recorded differently, with less of the "veiled" feeling, more high-end
clarity to your voice, but still a bit distant, harder to hear "you"
than in "See About Me".
I was hoping your "notes" would include more equipment and studio and
engineering info...
When I read the news thread about there sometimes not being enough
"space" in a particular mix for what is by itself a great-sounding
voice track, I thought of several of your tracks, but especially
"Sympatico". Maybe that is the intention, to have your voice blend in
as another instrument? Personally, I wanted to hear the voice, and
felt like I was straining to separate it from the blend.
As I said, maybe this is all easily explained by some setting in the
RealAudio processing. Or maybe it really does bear on your search for
different microphones. In any case, I think the advice to record your
mic tests and listen at home is very good. It seems the next step
would be to drop those tests into your instrumental mixes and see how
they fare. Maybe it is not the mic itself you're seeking, but its
relationship to the rest of your sound.
Loren
|
Hey Loren,
I totally agree with you! I recorded at Southern Tracks (Pearl Jam and
many others), and Doppler (Elton John and just about every new R&B act
out there) and it's still the same story.
But "See About Me" was recorded by some stoned out hippies in a little
basement studio with fleas (my legs were covered in bites when I
left!!) and it sounds up front and solid so go figure! I think they
just turned the vocal up REALLY loud because if you listen close it's
actually distorted in places. I also belt out the entire song which
makes the volumes easier to deal with.. I think it might be more of a
mix thing. I also think that my volumes so fluctuate that it freaks
engineers out...but you got me. It's always been a source of real
frustration for me. Any comments from engineers out there? |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:17 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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John L Rice <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm (pretty) sure there must be at least one dealer in Atlanta that must
stock RE-20's. Or you could call a couple local studios to find one that
has an RE-20 ( and hopefully other mics you are interested in ) and buy an
hour of time or so to try them out ( $15 to $80 in a studio is probably a
better investment than taking a few hours for free in Guitar Ceter etc )
Any one here on RAP in GA that can help out Sue?
|
I don't offhand, but I bet if you call Joe over at WREK and ask for ten
minutes with an RE-20, they'll let you into the studios. What real audio
places are left in Atlanta now?
| Quote: | The PL-20 is pretty much the same as the RE-20 and sometimes can be found
cheaper.
|
It is the same, other than color, but it was sold through a different dealer
network. It's no longer sold, so it only turns up used. If you buy a really
ratty half-destroyed one, EV will rebuild them for a very minimal charge, too.
I really like EV.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Mike Rivers
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
In article <5dfa6183.0411291004.6a254366@posting.google.com> sue42155@yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Hey Mike,
Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps? Maybe
your favorite.
|
I'm not really a preamp guy. The only outboard preamp I have is a
Great River and that's only because my name is Rivers and I got a
Great Deal on it. I just use the preamps on my Souncraft console.
| Quote: | I'm just about to hook up the Rode K2
with the Eureka here at home. So I hope I don't blow anything up. I've
turned on the phantom power on my D1600. Is this correct?
|
The D1600 is a recording workstation? If so, then no, that's not
correct. Turn on the phantom power on the Eureka, and connect the
Eureka output to a line input on the D1600. You won't do any harm,
unless you connect the Eureka output to a mic input with phantom power
on (which may damage the Eureka's output stage).
Hope it's not too late.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
|
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hank alrich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:22 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
Sue G. Wilkinson wrote:
| Quote: | Could you make some suggestions of good medium priced preamps?
|
Depending on your idea of medium pricing:
FMR RNP - Under $500 for two channel unit. Much better than good for the
money: www.fmraudio.com
Speck MIC Pre 5.0 - A little more money, under $900, with some
interesting features, and a fine sound: www.speck.com
Great River MP1-NV - More expensive, list $1395, but in the long run
perhaps worth it. This is top shelf stuff:
www.greatriverelectronics.com
I have used all of these and they are all good tools. My favorite
day-in/day-out mic preamp remains my Great River MP2-MH.
--
ha |
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Chris Del Faro
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:48 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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IMHO the Studio Projects T3 should also be included in the shortlist.
Their website is www.studioprojectsusa.com
A certain soprano (aka Dolly Parton) sold millions of records at RCA
using an
Electro-Voice RE15. (the RE16 can be considered too) The RE15 has been
discontinued, and Dolly's is probably still inside a RCA vault <g>.
Elvis' main vocal mic at RCA was also the RE15 BTW.
Ebay is the easiest spot now to pick up a RE15 (also spelled RE-15).
But they're so cheap they're worth trying out sometime to add to
whatever
condenser(s) you select.
Another EV dynamic worth a shot is the 635a omni.
Chris |
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TonyP
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
|
|
"Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411272353.1d14d21e@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Thanks for responding...I'm not familiar with the NT2000 or the
NT1000. Could you tell me the brand on those
|
Rode.
http://www.rode.com.au
TonyP. |
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John L Rice
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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| Quote: | I'm just about to hook up the Rode K2
with the Eureka here at home. So I hope I don't blow anything up. I've
turned on the phantom power on my D1600. Is this correct?
The D1600 is a recording workstation? If so, then no, that's not
correct. Turn on the phantom power on the Eureka, and connect the
Eureka output to a line input on the D1600. You won't do any harm,
unless you connect the Eureka output to a mic input with phantom power
on (which may damage the Eureka's output stage).
Hope it's not too late.
|
In addition to what Mike said I'm 'pretty sure' that you don't even want the
phantom on for the Eureka either, since the K2 is a tube mic with an
external power supply box ( right? or am I cornfused? ).
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com |
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John L Rice
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cofsjo$49e$1@panix2.panix.com...
| Quote: | John L Rice <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote:
I'm (pretty) sure there must be at least one dealer in Atlanta that must
stock RE-20's. Or you could call a couple local studios to find one that
has an RE-20 ( and hopefully other mics you are interested in ) and buy
an
hour of time or so to try them out ( $15 to $80 in a studio is probably a
better investment than taking a few hours for free in Guitar Ceter etc )
Any one here on RAP in GA that can help out Sue?
I don't offhand, but I bet if you call Joe over at WREK and ask for ten
minutes with an RE-20, they'll let you into the studios. What real audio
places are left in Atlanta now?
The PL-20 is pretty much the same as the RE-20 and sometimes can be found
cheaper.
It is the same, other than color, but it was sold through a different
dealer
network. It's no longer sold, so it only turns up used. If you buy a
really
ratty half-destroyed one, EV will rebuild them for a very minimal charge,
too.
I really like EV.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
|
Thanks for the additions Scott. I was just assuming that there must be some
decent studios in Atlanta just because it's so large etc. ( hey, maybe we
should go dumpster diving out behind the CNN building . . I bet they throw
out all kinds of cool stuff ;-)
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com |
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