| Author |
Message |
Mike Rivers
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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In article <5dfa6183.0411272338.1b79430a@posting.google.com> sue42155@yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | The B.L.U.E. [Blueberry] was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice,
|
This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.
Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).
If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
Try a few mics that are too expensive. If one doesn't sound as good to
you as something you can afford, it will make you feel better. And if
they all sound better than what you can afford, at least you'll have a
standard of comparison. And don't be afraid to try mics that don't
look big and bulky.
The interface between the microphone and preamp (or mixer, or whatever
you're using for an input device in your home recording setup) makes a
difference too, but just to give everything you try a fair chance, use
something lowish-middle-of-the-road for all the mics. The MARS music
stores used to have a mic demo room with all the mics connected to
Mackie mixers which were less than optimum for most mics, but at least
it was a constant. Something like that would be OK. Using the best mic
preamp in the shop, unless you were prepared to buy it, would be
unfair.
| Quote: | btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.
|
It's fairly new, and just hitting the magazine reviews this month.
Presonus usually does a pretty good job, so it's bound to be a fair
deal. Not exotic, but it's not likely to be a deterrent to making a
decent vocal recording. If that's what you have, then use that for
your test recordings. It has a lot of bells and whistles, too, so
bypass those to hear the basic sound of the mic.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Paul Stamler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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"Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411272349.4c5c2259@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | and a BLUE Blueberry ( may have too much 'presence' for your voice )
I tried the BLUE, but it didn't sound very good with my voice. I think
I'm gonna try it again when I go back to pick up the 103 because
people keep recommending it.
|
Given what I heard on the streaming vocals, I suspect you're right to think
it didn't sound good with your voice. Something with less zing up top
(TLM-193, Beyer M260, some of the Rodes, RE20, SM7, etc.) would probably be
a good match. In the end, your ears are the determining factor; people
recommend the BLUE mics because they've worked for those people in the past,
but that doesn't mean they'll work for you. True of any mic, for that
matter. You're still the arbiter; we can point you toward things you might
want to audition, but your ears make up their own minds, if you'll pardon
the scrambled metaphor.
Peace,
Paul |
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Lou Gimenez
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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check out the peluso clones. I'm not going to say it sounds as good as the
real thing but the u47 copy John Peluso makes is pretty nice.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com
| Quote: | From: scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: 28 Nov 2004 15:32:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals
I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it? >><BR><BR
The TLM193 is about $500 more than the TLM103. It's a much more accurate (less
hyped high end) mic, & thus sounds dark on many voices. If sibilance is a
problem for you, the TLM193 might be exactly what you need. I often start with
the 103, then move to the 193 if there is excessive sibilance. It's not a
male/female thing either. Some women sound better on the brighter mic (103)
some men sound better on the darker mic (193) it all depends on the voice.
Scott Fraser |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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In article <%Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01>, jam12 <jam@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | akg 3000
take a listen
|
No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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jam12
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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akg 3000
take a listen
www.soundclick.com/bacino
"Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411272338.1b79430a@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.henderson@sbcglobal.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:<e7Vod.36705$Al3.13896@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>...
"Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411232118.a255b80@posting.google.com...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.
Then a B.L.U.E. Blueberry might be a good mic for you, especially if you
like to work the mic close-in. It can take the high SPL's on your higher
notes without sounding raspy, and it has a bit of rolled-off sound on
the
low end, which means your breathiness will come through without having
proximity effect issues on your lower notes.
Hey Neil,
Thanks for responding Neil. The B.L.U.E. was actually what everyone
was high on at the store and I also heard Sting uses one of the really
expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. Unfortunatley, it
didn't sound that good with my voice, but from what you've described,
that is exactly what I need in a mic, so when I go back to get the
Neumann, I'll try the B.L.U.E. again.
I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com.
Have anything on mp3 or .wav? I disdain using the Real Audio virus.
I could email you a couple of things.
I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm
Are you referring to the TLM-103?
Sorry for my ignorance, but as far as I can see it's called Rode K2..
It's the condenser mic that comes with the power supply and shock
mount. It has omni, cardioid and figure eight polar patters.
I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414?
Personally I like 'em a lot for certain things, but I've never found a
lead
vocal that I couldn't find a better mic for.
It doesn't seem to impress many people any more, but I've gotten some
vocal performances that were pretty good on it.
btw, are you familiar with the PreSonus Eureka preamp? I'm not at all
familiar with preamp, so I just went with what the salesman suggested.
Neil Henderson |
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ScotFraser
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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<< I'm pretty sure it's the TLM103. I believe it's the lowest priced
Neumann. The TLM 193 is more expensive isn't it? >><BR><BR>
The TLM193 is about $500 more than the TLM103. It's a much more accurate (less
hyped high end) mic, & thus sounds dark on many voices. If sibilance is a
problem for you, the TLM193 might be exactly what you need. I often start with
the 103, then move to the 193 if there is excessive sibilance. It's not a
male/female thing either. Some women sound better on the brighter mic (103)
some men sound better on the darker mic (193) it all depends on the voice.
Scott Fraser |
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play-on
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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On 27 Nov 2004 23:49:54 -0800, sue42155@yahoo.com (Sue G. Wilkinson)
wrote:
| Quote: | If you were to come over to record at my place I'd want to try an
ElectroVoice RE-20 on you first, or a Shure SM7 or Stedman N90. I think you
might be surprised by one of those.
I called and talked to the salesman, and they don't carry any of these
guys. There is a smaller store that is more specialized, so I'm gonna
try over there and see if I can't track some of these down. Are they
older models?
|
All the models he mentions are still in production, and most broadcast
supply places would have them in stock. The EV RE-20 has been around
for years. For some people a dynamic mic like the RE-20 works
perfectly... for exampe it is Bonnie Raitt's favorite studio mic from
what I've heard. They are a hell of a lot cheaper than Neumanns too.
Have you thought about going into a local well-equipped studio to
audtion some mics?
Al |
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Sue G. Wilkinson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<DDWod.964586$Gx4.912020@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
| Quote: | "Sue G. Wilkinson" <sue42155@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5dfa6183.0411232118.a255b80@posting.google.com...
I'm looking for the best medium priced mic for female vocals. I'm a
soprano and my dynamic range is extremely wide along with my volume
levels. My lower notes tend to be more breathy and my higher notes are
very loud and belted out.
I have two different projects: one more ambient in nature, and the
second a heavy R&B sound that is reminiscent of Staxs Volts stuff.
Please give a listen at www.suewilkinson.com. I've taken home a Rode
K2 which sounded fairly good at Guitar Center run dry through pro
tools. I've also brought home a Eureka E2 preamp. I tried several mics
and narrowed it down to the cheaper Neunamm which gave me a more
"true" version of my voice I thought, but the k2 sounded warmer, but
with less personality. I also wondered what you might think of the AKG
414? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is
for a home studio. I have a korg D1600. Thanks.
If you're looking for a warmer sound, see if you can find a used Beyer M260
on ebay, or, yes, check out the new AKG C414B-ULS. For a brighter sound,
maybe the C414B-ULII might be worth looking at,
|
I'm not sure what kind of 414 I tried so I'll definitely check that
out because I've had some good sucess with 414's in the past.
but here's a suggestion out
| Quote: | of left field: see if you can try a Beyer M88.
|
One of my most favorite live mics was a Beyer, so I'll try and track
those down.There are a couple of stores I can check.
I think if I were going to
| Quote: | record you with a Neumann, it'd be a U-87, rather than one of the
less-expensive ones.
|
That would be great, but I'm not sure the U-87 is in the budget. I'll
see how much they run.
| Quote: |
By the way, I liked your voice on the site; very mobile, esp. on the R&B
songs.
|
Thanks so much. And also thanks for taking the time to listen. I love
singing and writing that old school R&B stuff. Please check back
sometime!
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jam12
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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maybe a good pre amp and a ear can help
jimmy
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cocv5i$1bf$1@panix1.panix.com...
| Quote: | In article <%Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01>, jam12 <jam@hotmail.com
wrote:
akg 3000
take a listen
No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Loren Amelang
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
On 28 Nov 2004 12:27:05 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
....
| Quote: | This is the most important thing. Voices are different, and different
microphones accentuate different things. I'd suggest that when you go
back to the store, you do it at a time when they're not busy (take a
Tuesday morning off work if necessary) and set up several mics, try
each one with your voice, and - most important - RECORD your
experiments.
Bring in a blank CD. They should be able to set you up with something
that will allow you to make a recording there. Then, listen to the
recording at home. Don't try to make judgements only by listening to
yourself on headphones while you're singing in the store. There are
too many variables. You can't do anything to make the acoustical
environment like what you have at home, but if you keep the mics close
to the center of the room, you should at least reduce the effect of
reflections coming in from the back and sides (which is something you
can also control at home).
If you feel silly singing unaccompanied, bring in a portable music
player and headphones with something that you can sing to. And don't
forget to identify which mic you're singing into. But don't try to
record a mix or a pseudo Karaoke performance. Just record your voice.
.... |
Sue,
I've been listening to the RealAudio from your web site while reading
today's news. I fully realize that is a pale reflection of your sound
and your equipment. I'm just a consumer of music much more often than
a producer, but I have some thoughts I'd like to explore.
I started with the R&B, and "See About Me" was the only cut where I
felt I could really hear your voice. In the others I found myself
wishing for the "veil" to go away. Is there something about the
studio, the equipment, the mix, or the RealAudio processing that is
obviously different for "See About Me? The Pop tracks seem to be
recorded differently, with less of the "veiled" feeling, more high-end
clarity to your voice, but still a bit distant, harder to hear "you"
than in "See About Me".
I was hoping your "notes" would include more equipment and studio and
engineering info...
When I read the news thread about there sometimes not being enough
"space" in a particular mix for what is by itself a great-sounding
voice track, I thought of several of your tracks, but especially
"Sympatico". Maybe that is the intention, to have your voice blend in
as another instrument? Personally, I wanted to hear the voice, and
felt like I was straining to separate it from the blend.
As I said, maybe this is all easily explained by some setting in the
RealAudio processing. Or maybe it really does bear on your search for
different microphones. In any case, I think the advice to record your
mic tests and listen at home is very good. It seems the next step
would be to drop those tests into your instrumental mixes and see how
they fare. Maybe it is not the mic itself you're seeking, but its
relationship to the rest of your sound.
Loren |
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Hal Laurent
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cod9j8$bsp$1@panix2.panix.com...
| Quote: | Hal Laurent <laurent@charm.net> wrote:
"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
But versatile with those swithcable response curves.
Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?
Yes it does. Take the screws off the back plate and you will find a bunch
of them.
|
Well darn, I learn something new everyday! I guess I should go download
the manual from the Shure site (I bought the mic used a long time ago).
Hal Laurent
Baltimore |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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In article <yGqqd.478982$D%.203762@attbi_s51>, jam12 <jam@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cocv5i$1bf$1@panix1.panix.com...
In article <%Zlqd.157209$HA.136227@attbi_s01>, jam12 <jam@hotmail.com
wrote:
akg 3000
take a listen
No thank you. This has to be the most brittle-sounding microphone around.
I thought the 414B/ULS was screechy until I tried it.
maybe a good pre amp and a ear can help
|
Nope, it tends to get worse and worse the more transparent the preamp top end
is. I could understand how the exaggerated top end might help cut through a
preamp with a wooly sort of top end, but on something like the Millennia it
cuts like a knife.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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Hal Laurent <laurent@charm.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gnygcy.1vcgqaoh47x6sN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
Mike Rivers wrote:
The SM7 is pretty specialized
But versatile with those swithcable response curves.
Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?
|
Yes it does. Take the screws off the back plate and you will find a bunch
of them.
Personally, I have never found them to be useful... I have always got a
better sound with them all set flat. But you can try moving them around.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Scott Dorsey
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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In article <znr1101651982k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
With the exception of the Stedman, more like old chestnuts. They might
have a PL20 which is the same as an RE20 but sold to the live sound
market rather than the broadcast or studio market (different box). The
SM7 is pretty specialized, as is the Stedman so you're not likely to
find one of those easily. But don't be afraid to try other dynamic
mics like the trusty Shure SM57 or SM58 (what do you use for live
performance?), or something from Beyer, or a Sennheiser MD441.
|
NOBODY in the MI market will carry the MD441. They might have the MD421,
but even that is kind of rare (and they will only know it as a kick drum
mike, they won't have any clue that it's one of the best vocal mikes around).
The 441 is totally foreign to the MI guys. Which is a shame, since it's
probably the best dynamic mike ever made in terms of neutral sound and
extreme directionality.
The key to finding any of this stuff is to stay away from the MI stores and
go looking for places that sell specifically to the pro audio market. The
guys at Guitar Center will never have seen an RE-20, even though it's probably
the most popular voiceover mike in the world.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Hal Laurent
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Best medium priced mic for female vocals |
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|
"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gnygcy.1vcgqaoh47x6sN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
| Quote: | Mike Rivers wrote:
The SM7 is pretty specialized
But versatile with those swithcable response curves.
|
Huh? My SM7 doesn't have any switches at all. Are you
thinking of the MD-421?
Hal Laurent
Baltimore |
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