| Author |
Message |
Marty
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:40 am Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
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Somewhere around Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:24:19 GMT, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from spam@uce.gov
(Bob):
| Quote: | On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 03:55:01 GMT, bv@wjv.com (Bill Vermillion) wrote:
Since my external
burner [ my first ] and the current internal had TDK brands I
figured they'd re-brand disks that worked for them. One set would
burn at 8K the other got flaky and burned well at 4K.
The only way you can know for sure is to look at the internal table to
see if your burner recognizes a particular MID. For a reader:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=114269&highlight=media
TDK made some of the best CD-R disks available.
They also make the some of the best VCR tapes.
And, in my opinion, cassette tapes. Back in another lifetime, I worked for |
Dolby Labs (Licensing), and did a lot of testing of tapes and decks. I
found TDK AD tapes to be very good, low distortion, low dropouts. Before
that, I used to think Maxell was the best, but I changed my mind.
--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
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Paul Hyett
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:22 am Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
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In rec.video.dvd.tech on Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Bob wrote :
| Quote: |
The first one formatted and recorded properly, but the next one did
not. The DVDR claimed it had set it up correctly, but it failed to
record two shows, which I ended up missing as a result.
|
All the blank DVD's I've bought have been pre-formatted.
--
Paul 'US Sitcom Fan' Hyett |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
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On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:22:20 +0100, Paul Hyett
<pah@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | The first one formatted and recorded properly, but the next one did
not. The DVDR claimed it had set it up correctly, but it failed to
record two shows, which I ended up missing as a result.
All the blank DVD's I've bought have been pre-formatted.
|
Maybe that's why the Maxells did not work and the Imations did.
Both had the same MID ("Philips 041") so the discs were presumably the
same. The only difference may be that they were pre-formatted by
different companies.
I had the same thing happen many years ago with a box of Sony 1.2MB
floppy discs which were supposed to be pre-formatted. They did not
work so I re-formatted them and they still didn't work. The entire box
was bad so either they used complete junk, which is unlikely, or their
pre-formatting procedure screwed them up. And since you can't
low-level format a floppy, they were worthless because of the bad
pre-format.
I wonder if you can low-level format a DVD disc.
--
Greatest Movie Line Ever
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/MovieLine.wmv
"What is history but the story of how politicians have
squandered the blood and treasure of the human race?"
--Thomas Sowell |
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Marty
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:27 am Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
Somewhere around Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:35:03 GMT, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from bv@wjv.com (Bill
Vermillion):
.. . .
| Quote: |
And, in my opinion, cassette tapes. Back in another lifetime,
I worked for Dolby Labs (Licensing), and did a lot of testing
of tapes and decks. I found TDK AD tapes to be very good, low
distortion, low dropouts. Before that, I used to think Maxell was
the best, but I changed my mind.
And we used the use the Super Avalyn [SA] tapes for dubs of masters
for clients to listen to before continuing on.
For standard cassettes we had a duplication house next to us load
cassettes with Agfa - which was also very good for standard run
tapes.
The only weirdness we found was with the sound of the Nakamichi
that were used at times. And then we found the original Naks
used the original spec for EQ curves, while everyone else used a
modified curve as it was cheaper and easier to do.
Then we found out there was a Nak with a 'B' curve - that matched
the industry standard but not the sepcifications.
When I worked for Dolby Licensing, I evaluated equipment that used Dolby's |
trademark to make sure it met the standards. We provided a very detailed
report with lots of charts and graphs. If they didn't meet the standards,
they had to fix it. So, if the Nakamichi had Dolby noise reduction, it had
to use the same EQ as everyone else, and vice versa. For playback, there
were absolute standards. But for recording, it depends on the tape, and the
best results are only obtained by using the same tape they used to set it
up. So, if they used Maxell tape, then TDK may not sound right.
Different tapes had very different characteristics, and the best recorders
eventually had automatic setups for the tape, where it would automatically
adjust the bias, level, and EQ for that tape before recording (I had one of
these, and it really makes a difference).
--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx |
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BillyBob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
"Bob" <spam@uce.gov> wrote in message
news:433d2e2b.55226953@news-server.houston.rr.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:22:20 +0100, Paul Hyett
pah@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote:
The first one formatted and recorded properly, but the next one did
not. The DVDR claimed it had set it up correctly, but it failed to
record two shows, which I ended up missing as a result.
All the blank DVD's I've bought have been pre-formatted.
Maybe that's why the Maxells did not work and the Imations did.
Both had the same MID ("Philips 041") so the discs were presumably the
same. The only difference may be that they were pre-formatted by
different companies.
I had the same thing happen many years ago with a box of Sony 1.2MB
floppy discs which were supposed to be pre-formatted. They did not
work so I re-formatted them and they still didn't work. The entire box
was bad so either they used complete junk, which is unlikely, or their
pre-formatting procedure screwed them up. And since you can't
low-level format a floppy, they were worthless because of the bad
pre-format.
I wonder if you can low-level format a DVD disc.
|
No - DVD-R media is not preformatted if you "preformatted" it then you would
not be able to write data as it is a write once media.
BB |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
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|
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:29:27 GMT, "BillyBob" <NEWSMAN@NOSPAM.COM>
wrote:
| Quote: | No - DVD-R media is not preformatted if you "preformatted" it then you would
not be able to write data as it is a write once media.
|
The MID is written to the disc and that does not prevent writing more
data. |
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BillyBob
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
"Bob" <spam@uce.gov> wrote in message
news:433ea6eb.3323140@news-server.houston.rr.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:29:27 GMT, "BillyBob" <NEWSMAN@NOSPAM.COM
wrote:
No - DVD-R media is not preformatted if you "preformatted" it then you
would
not be able to write data as it is a write once media.
The MID is written to the disc and that does not prevent writing more
data.
|
The MID has nothing to do with reformatting a disc. . .
BB |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
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On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:12:36 GMT, "BillyBob" <NEWSMAN@NOSPAM.COM>
wrote:
| Quote: | No - DVD-R media is not preformatted if you "preformatted" it then you
would
not be able to write data as it is a write once media.
The MID is written to the disc and that does not prevent writing more
data.
The MID has nothing to do with reformatting a disc. . .
|
I never claimed it was. I am saying that the MID is part of the
pre-formatting process. |
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BillyBob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:54 am Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
"Bob" <spam@uce.gov> wrote in message
news:433ec137.5057781@news-server.houston.rr.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:12:36 GMT, "BillyBob" <NEWSMAN@NOSPAM.COM
wrote:
No - DVD-R media is not preformatted if you "preformatted" it then you
would
not be able to write data as it is a write once media.
The MID is written to the disc and that does not prevent writing more
data.
The MID has nothing to do with reformatting a disc. . .
I never claimed it was. I am saying that the MID is part of the
pre-formatting process.
|
To use the term pre-formatting I do not believe is correct - a better term
would be part of the manufacturing process. Formatting would refer to the
physical or logical layout of the disc - the MID does not have any
relationship to this other than it will give some info on the disc maker so
the drive knows how to handle it - how strong to make the laser et al.
On DVD-R Media there is no format written to the data area until the disc is
burned - to say that the disc has been preformatted is not correct -
BB |
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:54:07 GMT, "BillyBob" <NEWSMAN@NOSPAM.COM>
wrote:
| Quote: | On DVD-R Media there is no format written to the data area until the disc is
burned - to say that the disc has been preformatted is not correct -
|
How about DVD +RW media, which is the original subject of this
discussion. |
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Bill Vermillion
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:55 am Post subject:
Re: Disc Label |
|
|
In article <a4irj156bapknhs4l838ec7tc5io6qf5dc@4ax.com>,
Marty <my gmail address> wrote:
| Quote: | Somewhere around Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:35:03 GMT, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from bv@wjv.com (Bill
Vermillion):
. . .
And, in my opinion, cassette tapes. Back in another lifetime,
I worked for Dolby Labs (Licensing), and did a lot of testing
of tapes and decks. I found TDK AD tapes to be very good, low
distortion, low dropouts. Before that, I used to think Maxell was
the best, but I changed my mind.
And we used the use the Super Avalyn [SA] tapes for dubs of masters
for clients to listen to before continuing on.
For standard cassettes we had a duplication house next to us load
cassettes with Agfa - which was also very good for standard run
tapes.
The only weirdness we found was with the sound of the Nakamichi
that were used at times. And then we found the original Naks
used the original spec for EQ curves, while everyone else used a
modified curve as it was cheaper and easier to do.
Then we found out there was a Nak with a 'B' curve - that matched
the industry standard but not the sepcifications.
When I worked for Dolby Licensing, I evaluated equipment that
used Dolby's trademark to make sure it met the standards. We
provided a very detailed report with lots of charts and graphs.
If they didn't meet the standards, they had to fix it. So, if the
Nakamichi had Dolby noise reduction, it had to use the same EQ as
everyone else, and vice versa. For playback, there were absolute
standards. But for recording, it depends on the tape, and the
best results are only obtained by using the same tape they used
to set it up. So, if they used Maxell tape, then TDK may not
sound right. Different tapes had very different characteristics,
and the best recorders eventually had automatic setups for the
tape, where it would automatically adjust the bias, level, and EQ
for that tape before recording (I had one of these, and it really
makes a difference).
|
A lot of people don't understand that.
When I was CE at a studio but the big 2" r2r machines never had
anything such as automatic setups like the big Naks did.
We also found that besides the differences in bias/eq on suposedly
compatible tapes, we also found that each brand of tape had a sonic
ear-print. Ampex 456 was a bit harder and ideal for RnR. Scotch
256 was much nicer on horns. Agfa 486 hissed a bit more but was
really nice on strings. The legendary Scotch 250 was almost silky
smooth but I never had a tape that had print-through as much as
that did.
We started to align our recorders using minimum modulation noise as
the typical charts for -3db at 10KHz over-bias didn't quite mean
the best sounding tape. I'd look at the spec sheets for the tapes
[something that never seemed to be distributed widley], and you
could see the difference in frequency response vs bias, and
modulation noise vs bias. Modulation noise bothered me more than
anything else. And since the settings depend upon gap-width
it made more sense to set up so the tape sounded best, not what
looked best on the meters.
While were weren't a huge studio we were in the $50K/yr column for
all three major manufacturers - none of which exist anymore.
Knowing how reel-reel works seems to be totally lost on some place
and I've seen some places that align things every few months.
One time I re-aligned one machine three times in a day, as there
were three different sessions, on three different tape brands, and
with two different head stacks.
There are times I miss those days - but I dont miss the 30 hour
days, 10 day weeks, and 6 week months. [at least that's what it
seemed like].
Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com |
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