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Message |
David Axt
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
reverb in monitors? |
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Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should they
be dry? Why or why not?
Thanks,
David
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Paul Matthews
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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David Axt wrote:
| Quote: | Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should they
be dry? Why or why not?
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As dry as possible. They are there to help the performers know what they are
doing. Any effects mask that.
--
Paul Matthews
paul@cattytown.me.uk
http://www.hepcats.co.uk |
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Phildo
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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"David Axt" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:10q34jmd8rpdv50@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should
they be dry? Why or why not?
Adding reverb to floor monitors much increases the chance of feedback and it |
also gives the performers a false impression of what they are doing.
Monitors should be dry. Reverb is only a security blanket and real
professionals would never need it.
That was one of my bugbears on the ship - performers would ask for loads of
reverb in the monitors then wonder why they couldn't get it so loud before
it started feeding back.
Phildo |
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Rob Beech
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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"Tony" <tony_roe@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:i0m3q0l0d097enlecnapucb5o8vho7o8t2@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:55:02 -0000, "Phildo" <Phil@phildo.net> wrote:
"David Axt" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:10q34jmd8rpdv50@corp.supernews.com...
Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should
they be dry? Why or why not?
Adding reverb to floor monitors much increases the chance of feedback and
it
also gives the performers a false impression of what they are doing.
Monitors should be dry. Reverb is only a security blanket and real
professionals would never need it.
That was one of my bugbears on the ship - performers would ask for loads
of
reverb in the monitors then wonder why they couldn't get it so loud
before
it started feeding back.
Phildo
True, but it's hard to take that argument to the limit, especially
when a lot of effects are added to the FOH, in which case the vocalist
may need to hear the effect in order to "get it right". A guitarist
would not be expected to play to dry foldback, and in some
circumstances the same applies to vocalists.
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
|
I think that would normally apply to specialist effects. Maybe a special
delay effect for example on a certain song. This could prove to be a
problem if the vocalist couldn't hear the effect. But normally i would like
to keep monitors dry. (if they ask fo it they can have it and if you can
getaway with it without feedback then thats great) but from my experience it
causes alot of problems.
IEM's can solve this to an extent by minimizing feedback.
Rob |
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Tony
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:55:02 -0000, "Phildo" <Phil@phildo.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"David Axt" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:10q34jmd8rpdv50@corp.supernews.com...
Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should
they be dry? Why or why not?
Adding reverb to floor monitors much increases the chance of feedback and it
also gives the performers a false impression of what they are doing.
Monitors should be dry. Reverb is only a security blanket and real
professionals would never need it.
That was one of my bugbears on the ship - performers would ask for loads of
reverb in the monitors then wonder why they couldn't get it so loud before
it started feeding back.
Phildo
|
True, but it's hard to take that argument to the limit, especially
when a lot of effects are added to the FOH, in which case the vocalist
may need to hear the effect in order to "get it right". A guitarist
would not be expected to play to dry foldback, and in some
circumstances the same applies to vocalists.
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email) |
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David Axt
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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| Quote: |
I think that would normally apply to specialist effects. Maybe a special
delay effect for example on a certain song. This could prove to be a
problem if the vocalist couldn't hear the effect. But normally i would
like
to keep monitors dry. (if they ask fo it they can have it and if you can
getaway with it without feedback then thats great) but from my experience
it
causes alot of problems.
IEM's can solve this to an extent by minimizing feedback.
Rob
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IEM? What is an IEM?
Thanks,
David |
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Hubert Barth
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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"David Axt" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
| Quote: | IEM? What is an IEM?
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In Ear Monitoring
.... using earbuds instead of wedges.
--
Hubert |
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Peet
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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David Axt wrote:
| Quote: |
IEM? What is an IEM?
In - Earr - Monitoring: performance without any floors on stage. |
greetings,
Peet |
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Mike T.
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:18:31 -0800, "David Axt" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom>
wrote:
| Quote: | Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should they
be dry? Why or why not?
Thanks,
David
Usually, not. Most performers want a clean rendition of their voice in |
the monitor. However, some performers insist on reverb, and a happy
performer gives a better performance.
In my experience, it does not increase the likelihood of feedback
unless you add a lot of reverb.
Mike T. |
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Joel Foner
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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On 22-Nov-2004, Paul Matthews <paul@cattytown.me.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | David Axt wrote:
Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should
they
be dry? Why or why not?
As dry as possible. They are there to help the performers know what they
are
doing. Any effects mask that.
--
Paul Matthews
paul@cattytown.me.uk
http://www.hepcats.co.uk
|
I don't find this to be entirely true, and I do a lot of work with vocalists
of many types. The things about a hint of reverb or delay in the monitors is
that it can actually help them to tune better, and to know what they are
doing in a more straightforward way (especially on a dry stage where they
don't get a lot of feedback from the room). Having the tail of the note come
back through the system gives them some feel for tuning drift, and for some
singers is a very helpful thing. Many singers that work with very light
instrumentation or a-cappella have related that is is "less work" to figure
out what you're doing with a touch of reverb or delay in the monitors (once
in a while when there's actually spare time in sound check I'll ask if they
want to try both ways, so this is results from folks who've tried both in
one setting). Not that they couldn't do it without, but just less effort and
more pleasant for them. I think this is a performer choice. However, as
Phildo said - there are folks who will ask because they think they need it,
not because it's what they really need - and those folks will get themselves
in far more trouble with fx foldback than without.
BTW - I usually find that if reverb to stage is something needed, a
noticeable amount of predelay keeps people happiest - in the 35-40 mS range.
From what I can tell talking to performers this gives them the "feel of a
room" and the "support" that they need to sing in a relaxed way without
muddying things up as much.
That all said, I always start with monitors dry and encourage folks to
listen to the room for room sound rather than stuffing the monitors with fx.
If people ask, however, I'll try to oblige using this strategy, which seems
to keep all pretty happy. Another caveat is that in small rooms I would
agree that fx in foldback is likely not a good idea from the get-go. I'm
really talking here about halls with typical stage layouts in the 800-1400
seat range where the performer often has a remarkably different acoustic
environment than the audience.
Hope this helps, and I'm sure others have other opinions - this is just what
has worked for me and the folks I've worked with.
Regards,
Joel |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:05 pm Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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David Axt wrote:
| Quote: | Should you put reverb or other effects in the floor monitors or should they
be dry? Why or why not?
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Depends on the artist.
One of my products was popular at its inception since it had a convenient
specific rev to monitors level control.
I have included this function ever since where there is an inbuilt rev.
Graham |
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Andy
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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"Tony" wrote in message
<snip>
| Quote: | A guitarist
would not be expected to play to dry foldback, and in some
circumstances the same applies to vocalists.
|
What a timely post...
Been spending time rearranging the FOH rack and installing a bunch of
wireless receivers -- antennas (sp?) galore. :-)
Had some R&R time so I plugged a Roland GR-20 synth into a couple channels
and a Korg multi pedal both into the FOH rack, dialed in the wetness really
wet, and had and enjoyable jam from arguably the best seat in the house
playing on a strat clone. Reverb, chorus, organ, orchestra, vocal pads,
sitars, everything. Nothing dry for miles. I think I'll be moving off the
stage and playing out of the sound booth more often.
But then, that would be reverb in the mains... :-)
Thanks!
Andy |
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Blind Joni
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:23 am Post subject:
Re: reverb in monitors? |
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| Quote: | think that would normally apply to specialist effects. Maybe a special
delay effect for example on a certain song. This could prove to be a
problem if the vocalist couldn't hear the effect.
Rob
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Not really. Joel was speaking of an overall sound to the vocalist..like singing
in the bathroom is fun because you can ehar soemthing coming back. I would do
what ever the vocalist asks and see what works..no cut and dried rule on this.
And there are polarity tricks that you can use to minimize feedback in some
situations. I myself prefer and would insist on IEMs.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637 |
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