| Author |
Message |
Richard Steinfeld
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject:
MP3 player advice |
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I'd like to buy an MP3 player. I'm very knowledgeable about audio but
not about MP3 players.
I want to download 55-minute radio programs off the web and listen to
them later. My need is mostly for speech, not music. I'd appreciate
suggestions for players that can meet my needs, which are:
Requirements:
- belt clip
- pause
- backspace (ability to replay the last 5 seconds)
- tone controls or eq, particularly to reduce exaggerated bass.
- 2 hours speech capacity
- uses standard battery
- ability to work with USB-1, even if it's intended for USB-2
- cheap ($50)
- good human-engineered controls (freedom from insane menus)
Desirable also:
- voice record
- line-level inputs (record from any audio source)
This last one may be ideal for recording Real streams off the internet.
Real streams are intentionally designed to prevent saving, so the
easiest way to deal with them, rather than go through a conversion
stage, is probably as straight audio. In fact, I make audio tapes this
way all the time.
So, I'd really appreciate your suggestions about what I should buy.
Thanks!
Richard
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Ron Hardin
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject:
Re: MP3 player advice |
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I like the Creative N200 MuVo, price varies with memory. 256mb
is about $65, holds ~5hrs at that size.
I don't know what USB it uses - I use mine without a PC, otherwise
it has everything you listed.
(On 5 of them I have a week of Imus)
--
Ron Hardin
rhhardin@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk. |
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cirejcon
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:08 am Post subject:
Re: MP3 player advice |
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Richard Steinfeld wrote:
| Quote: | I'd like to buy an MP3 player. I'm very knowledgeable about audio but
not about MP3 players.
I want to download 55-minute radio programs off the web and listen to
them later. My need is mostly for speech, not music. I'd appreciate
suggestions for players that can meet my needs, which are:
Requirements:
- belt clip
- pause
|
All will have this
| Quote: | - backspace (ability to replay the last 5 seconds)
|
Most have a button to go from one clip to the next. On
most - but not all - of them, if you hold it down, it goes
into FF or FR mode.
This is *definitely* something you'll want to check.
| Quote: | - tone controls or eq, particularly to reduce exaggerated bass.
|
Most units I've seen allow you to select from a number of
preset equalizations, with at least one optimized for voice.
| Quote: | - 2 hours speech capacity
|
Default music encoding is 128 kbits/s, which is about 1Mbyte/minute,
so a 128 Mbyte unit would record 2 hours.
However, 64 kbs is *plenty* for voice, and even 32 would probably
be fine,so you could get at least twice as much voice on
any unit as music.
| Quote: | - uses standard battery
- ability to work with USB-1, even if it's intended for USB-2
|
Any that are USB-2 will also work with USB-1.
128 Meg units are very cheap *if* you can find them. Most stores
have tried to keep the lowest prices at $50-80 and upped the
memory, so now all the entry units are 256 Meg and at your
Best Buy or Fry's the cheapest will go for around $50. Check
the clearance shelves for great deals on 128 Meg units.
The best source for cheap 128 Meg players is the web. For example,
There are also lots of new 128 units on Ebay starting at $5.
| Quote: | - good human-engineered controls (freedom from insane menus)
Desirable also:
- voice record
|
Very common
| Quote: | - line-level inputs (record from any audio source)
|
This is unusual, and will significantly limit your options. Oviously,
if there's a microphone, there could be line in, it's just that
there's not a lot of demand for this.
| Quote: |
This last one may be ideal for recording Real streams off the internet.
Real streams are intentionally designed to prevent saving, so the
easiest way to deal with them, rather than go through a conversion
stage, is probably as straight audio. In fact, I make audio tapes this
way all the time.
|
There are other ways:
http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/
| Quote: | So, I'd really appreciate your suggestions about what I should buy.
|
Feature-wise and sound quality wise, they're all pretty similar.
Let price and usability be your guide.
As far as quality goes, I can't help much, since I've had awful
luck with MP3 players:
Creative MuVO 128 - Had horrible problems with static electricity
in winter (made it skip). Took it back
and had the same problem. Began rubbing a
Bounce
on it, which worked until the play button
stopped
working a week after the warranty ran out. Can't
play music any more, but still use it as a
memory stick.
RCA Lyra 128 - Was always cutting out and shutting off. Finally
tracked it down to the contact on the door that
held the battery. Tried progressively stronger and
stronger contact cleaner - to no avail - until one
finally melted the unit - Oops!!
"Samsung" 128 - An Asian knockoff very common on Ebay (oval shaped).
Particular songs would cause the unit to reset
itself.
However, my kids bought the same unit when we were
in Beijing, and theirs work fine. Must be me.
My interest was music, so I eventually bit the bullet and got
an iPod. I've been happy as hell ever since.
-jc
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Richard Steinfeld
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject:
Re: MP3 player advice |
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Thanks for the excellent overview, JC.
cirejcon wrote:
| Quote: |
Richard Steinfeld wrote:
I'd like to buy an MP3 player. I'm very knowledgeable about audio but
not about MP3 players.
I want to download 55-minute radio programs off the web and listen to
them later. My need is mostly for speech, not music. I'd appreciate
suggestions for players that can meet my needs, which are:
Requirements:
- belt clip
- pause
All will have this
- backspace (ability to replay the last 5 seconds)
|
I wish that were true. You see, before I wrote my last post, I had
already returned a "Memorex" MP3 player to Target in disgust. It gave
128 mb for $35. It had no pause ability -- when you stopped, you went
back to the beginning. And it had no belt clip. In fact, it had no
nothing -- no way to attach it to anything. Real tiny. Perhaps we're
supposed to support it by its ear-buds.
This is not a product from the Memorex whom we used to know and love
(they made quite a bit of junk). The name's been acquired. It's now a
Hong Kong company registered in Bermuda. The president has been accused
of insider trading. (I've been doing my MP3 research, man).
| Quote: |
Most have a button to go from one clip to the next. On
most - but not all - of them, if you hold it down, it goes
into FF or FR mode.
|
The Memorex had both. Just no pause.
| Quote: |
Most units I've seen allow you to select from a number of
preset equalizations, with at least one optimized for voice.
- 2 hours speech capacity
Default music encoding is 128 kbits/s, which is about 1Mbyte/minute,
so a 128 Mbyte unit would record 2 hours.
However, 64 kbs is *plenty* for voice, and even 32 would probably
be fine,so you could get at least twice as much voice on
any unit as music.
This is great to know. |
Between posts, I bit the bullet and bought a Wigo CVM101 on eBay for
$90, delivered. It's got 256 mb and plays OGG Vorbis, an open-source
format that I expect to become a standard (already in use by the
Pacifica Radio Network). It arrived with one of the worst manuals I've
ever seen -- I'm trying to figure it out. I have to use very strong
glasses to read the teentsy print on the main menu diagram (which is
printed in gray ink). The device is incredibly complicated.
| Quote: |
- uses standard battery
|
That's the only drawback: this thing has a "permanent" rechargeable
lithium cell, charged off the USB.
| Quote: | - ability to work with USB-1, even if it's intended for USB-2
Any that are USB-2 will also work with USB-1.
- cheap ($50)
128 Meg units are very cheap *if* you can find them. Most stores
have tried to keep the lowest prices at $50-80 and upped the
memory, so now all the entry units are 256 Meg and at your
Best Buy or Fry's the cheapest will go for around $50. Check
the clearance shelves for great deals on 128 Meg units.
The best source for cheap 128 Meg players is the web. For example,
There are also lots of new 128 units on Ebay starting at $5.
- good human-engineered controls (freedom from insane menus)+
|
This thing has insane menus. Really insane. Can't win 'em all.
| Quote: |
Desirable also:
- voice record
Very common
- line-level inputs (record from any audio source)
This is unusual, and will significantly limit your options. Oviously,
if there's a microphone, there could be line in, it's just that
there's not a lot of demand for this.
|
It's got a line input with adjustable sensitivity -- supposedly, you can
plug in an external mic with higher gain. Built-in mic sensitivity is
also adjustable. These features plus the OGG Vorbis capability were what
led me to take a chance on this device. Voice recording sounds excellent.
| Quote: |
This last one may be ideal for recording Real streams off the internet.
Real streams are intentionally designed to prevent saving, so the
easiest way to deal with them, rather than go through a conversion
stage, is probably as straight audio. In fact, I make audio tapes this
way all the time.
There are other ways:
http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/
|
Unfortunately, this link produced poor solutions. Each requires that the
user have Real Player installed. Real Player is the most abusive program
that I have ever used on a computer: so invasive that I once had to
reformat the hard disk to get it off. It made more than 5,000 changes to
my operating system. It's intentional that Real streams are not
capturable -- what you save is actually a URL link, the purpose of which
is to "serve" you with fresh advertising. The only way to safely save a
Real stream is as a pure audio signal, which is how I've been doing it.
The only way that I know of to safely render a Real stream is by using
an alternative player that will connect with an alternative codec file
set named Real Alternative. One player that's well-behaved is Media
Player Classic (free-donationware from Hungary). JetAudio can also
deliver real streams with the RA files, but JA is a commercial product
into Digital Rights Management, which means to me that it's in some
sense, spyware. JA is slicker than MPC, but MPC is solid and doesn't do
anything suspicious.
| Quote: | So, I'd really appreciate your suggestions about what I should buy.
Feature-wise and sound quality wise, they're all pretty similar.
Let price and usability be your guide.
As far as quality goes, I can't help much, since I've had awful
luck with MP3 players:
Creative MuVO 128 - Had horrible problems with static electricity
in winter (made it skip). Took it back
and had the same problem. Began rubbing a
Bounce
on it, which worked until the play button
stopped
working a week after the warranty ran out. Can't
play music any more, but still use it as a
memory stick.
|
Yup. I hear 'ya. I'm anticipating that I'm going to learn on the one I
bought. I'm very familiar with self-destructing electronic products --
that's pretty common nowadays. Interesting about the static. My "Wigo"
has a decent warranty -- except that I can't find the American importer
and the manufacturer hasn't answered my email from Korea...
| Quote: | RCA Lyra 128 - Was always cutting out and shutting off. Finally
tracked it down to the contact on the door that
held the battery. Tried progressively stronger and
stronger contact cleaner - to no avail - until one
finally melted the unit - Oops!!
|
Argh! Next time, ask the folks on rec.antiques.radio+phono. They're
wizards about contact problems.
| Quote: | "Samsung" 128 - An Asian knockoff very common on Ebay (oval shaped).
Particular songs would cause the unit to reset
itself.
However, my kids bought the same unit when we were
in Beijing, and theirs work fine. Must be me.
My interest was music, so I eventually bit the bullet and got
an iPod. I've been happy as hell ever since.
|
Thanks again for your answers. I guess we're all learning. And these
products won't hold still. I'm hoping that until the unit that I bought
self-destructs, I'll learn what I need to know about this type of
digital recording, listen to a few radio programs, retire most of my
cassette equipment used for radio downloads. Meanwhile, the prices will
drop and many other brands will have incorporated OGV Vorbis. We'll see.
Richard |
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