| Author |
Message |
C.J.Patten
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:22 am Post subject:
camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual stuf.. |
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Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as long
as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much
performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV
camera "brains."
Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across a
discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's:
_________
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves in
a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 years
and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony TV..."
_________
Interesting. Comments?
I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual controls
of current prosumer models.
Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today.
Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret hidden
manual modes etc?
C.J.
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C.J.Patten
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:
Light sensitivity, futzing with settings, night shot guerril |
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|
On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor
described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them down
a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a bit
more.
We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by
shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the
camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall.
I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any
reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to
black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, 720
etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or VX2000
etc)
A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no control
over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really brought up
the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal - the guys
liked it though.
Thoughts?
C. |
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PTravel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am Post subject:
Re: Light sensitivity, futzing with settings, night shot gue |
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|
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:3_SdnRxJjbQ9kfXfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
| Quote: | On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor
described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them
down
a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a bit
more.
We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by
shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the
camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall.
I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any
reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to
black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320,
720
etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or
VX2000
etc)
|
It's always a good idea to use the zebra pattern feature on the
VX2000/21000/PD-150/170 to check for overexposure. Generally, my VX2000
does pretty well with exposure, but it's sometimes fooled by backlit
subjects.
| Quote: |
A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no
control
over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really brought
up
the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal - the guys
liked it though.
Thoughts?
|
I have an old TRV-20 with night shot. I've used it exactly as you've
described to shoot in the catacombs in Paris. Because night shot is an
infrared mode, the tonal range will look strange, but got very satisfactory
results by putting the camera in b&w mode and using night shot.
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C.J.Patten
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:30 am Post subject:
Re: Light sensitivity, futzing with settings, night shot gue |
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Now that's exactly the type of real world input I'm lookin' for.
<shudder> Catacombs... the Louvre was enough for me. ;)
Thanks!
C.J.
"PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
news:3cqjf3F5drs7cU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
It's always a good idea to use the zebra pattern feature on the
VX2000/21000/PD-150/170 to check for overexposure. Generally, my VX2000
does pretty well with exposure, but it's sometimes fooled by backlit
subjects.
I have an old TRV-20 with night shot. I've used it exactly as you've
described to shoot in the catacombs in Paris. Because night shot is an
infrared mode, the tonal range will look strange, but got very
satisfactory
results by putting the camera in b&w mode and using night shot.
C. |
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C.J.Patten
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:07 am Post subject:
more dumbed down camera features - commentary & questions .. |
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I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video
cameras.
"Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode favouring
fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well as
disabling edge sharpening).
I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode" (1/30sec
fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This
fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a
slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking
shutter speed. :)
There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions
from the manual include:
"Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you
are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon
signs." and
"Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from
appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in
the theatre."
Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low
Lux."
Where'd by dummy dictionary go?
Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode is
doing?
Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual
control.
Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some
scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end Hi-8
camera unless it's being given away.
(am I missing something here?)
C.J.
| Quote: | "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony
TV..." |
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PTravel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:34 am Post subject:
Re: more dumbed down camera features - commentary & question |
|
|
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:H7ednW7EVZi0r_XfRVn-gw@rogers.com...
| Quote: | I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video
cameras.
"Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode
favouring
fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well as
disabling edge sharpening).
|
From what you've described, "soft portrait" sounds like it turns off
sharpening. Your previous post made it sound like the TRV320 was
over-sharpening the image in an attempt to make it look like you were
getting more resolution than you were.
| Quote: |
I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode"
(1/30sec
fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This
fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a
slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking
shutter speed. :)
There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions
from the manual include:
"Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you
are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon
signs." and
"Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from
appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in
the theatre."
Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low
Lux."
Where'd by dummy dictionary go?
Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode is
doing?
Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual
control.
|
THAT is the secret. I agonized for quite a while before I bought my
VX2000 -- it was bigger, heavier and more expensive than I had originally
wanted (if only I'd bought a TRV-900 when I had the chance!). Since I've
gotten the VX2000, I've never looked back -- my old TRV-20 is used only as a
capture device for moving video into my computer.
Strangely enough, though I used to lust after full manual control, now that
I have it I find I rarely use it. The auto modes on the VX2000 do an
extraordinarily good job. And, by the way, the VX2000 has many of the same
stupid "program modes" as you've described, but I never use them -- never
even tried them.
| Quote: |
Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some
scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end
Hi-8
camera unless it's being given away.
(am I missing something here?)
|
The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. However, as long
as Sony still has fixed repair rates, even getting a camera with a worn head
can be a good deal. I don't know the rate on a TRV900, but I'd guess it's
less than a VX2000. Sony will fix any VX2000 for a flat rate of $475. This
isn't much of a bargain if you buy the camera at $1300, but if you can get
it for $1000 or so it would be a good deal.
| Quote: |
C.J.
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as
white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree
leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen
Sony
TV..."
|
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| Back to top |
|
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C.J.Patten
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:39 am Post subject:
Re: camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual st |
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|
HEY! Answered my own question!
I found the following online:
_________
On D8 cams since 1999/2000:
-Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop.
-Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop.
-Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000)
-Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris is
closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned
down to minimize outline effect.
-Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, electronic
stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus only
to avoid "hunting".
-Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs on
the windshield.
-Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th)
-Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops
Menus (NTSC):
-Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect)
Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the
even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates the
one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical
resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th exposure.
_________
Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be
useful!
C.J.
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as
long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much
performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV
camera "brains."
Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across a
discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's:
_________
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony
TV..."
_________
Interesting. Comments?
I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual controls
of current prosumer models.
Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today.
Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret hidden
manual modes etc?
C.J.
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nap
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: Light sensitivity, futzing with settings, night shot gue |
|
|
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:3_SdnRxJjbQ9kfXfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
| Quote: | On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor
described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them
down a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a
bit more.
|
Yes,., That's the way I have always dealt with DV.. I always shoot
alittleunder and deal with brightness in POST >
| Quote: |
We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by
shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the
camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall.
I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any
reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to
black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320,
720 etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or
VX2000 etc)
A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no
control over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really
brought up the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal -
the guys liked it though.
Thoughts?
|
All I can say is, when DV is near the edge of its dynamic range there is
very little you can do with it in post. SO shoot a litte under.. Always
works for me.
|
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C.J.Patten
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:53 am Post subject:
Re: more dumbed down camera features - commentary & question |
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|
Hehehehe. You've got the camera I want PTravel. ;)
The instructor on my weekend camera course commented on the auto modes on
the PD150/VX2000 being extremely intelligent. He was quite forthright that
he hasn't done a manual white balance in about 3 years with these cameras.
We tried to "break" the WB on these cameras just to see if we could and had
a difficult time.
I used to work as a freelance photographer. A lot of the time I used auto
modes with various locks, overrides and adjustments rather than full manual.
I mean, it's all about a shutter speed and an f-stop - whether you set it
fully manually or just "make sure" the box sets it where you want it, it's
the same effect. Add a few extras like interlace/progressive etc but really
it's still aperture & shutter.
Kinda like math - once you know how to do it manually, go ahead and use a
calculator, just make sure it gets you the solution you need. ;) :D
C.J.
"PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:H7ednW7EVZi0r_XfRVn-gw@rogers.com...
I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video
cameras.
"Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode
favouring
fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well
as
disabling edge sharpening).
From what you've described, "soft portrait" sounds like it turns off
sharpening. Your previous post made it sound like the TRV320 was
over-sharpening the image in an attempt to make it look like you were
getting more resolution than you were.
I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode"
(1/30sec
fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This
fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a
slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking
shutter speed. :)
There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions
from the manual include:
"Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you
are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon
signs." and
"Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from
appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in
the theatre."
Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low
Lux."
Where'd by dummy dictionary go?
Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode
is
doing?
Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual
control.
THAT is the secret. I agonized for quite a while before I bought my
VX2000 -- it was bigger, heavier and more expensive than I had originally
wanted (if only I'd bought a TRV-900 when I had the chance!). Since I've
gotten the VX2000, I've never looked back -- my old TRV-20 is used only as
a
capture device for moving video into my computer.
Strangely enough, though I used to lust after full manual control, now
that
I have it I find I rarely use it. The auto modes on the VX2000 do an
extraordinarily good job. And, by the way, the VX2000 has many of the
same
stupid "program modes" as you've described, but I never use them -- never
even tried them.
Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some
scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end
Hi-8
camera unless it's being given away.
(am I missing something here?)
The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. However, as
long
as Sony still has fixed repair rates, even getting a camera with a worn
head
can be a good deal. I don't know the rate on a TRV900, but I'd guess it's
less than a VX2000. Sony will fix any VX2000 for a flat rate of $475.
This
isn't much of a bargain if you buy the camera at $1300, but if you can get
it for $1000 or so it would be a good deal.
C.J.
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images
show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around
black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as
white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree
leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is
to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture
becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen
Sony
TV..."
|
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| Back to top |
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Derry Argue
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:56 am Post subject:
Re: more dumbed down camera features - commentary & question |
|
|
"PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in
news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours.
|
Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been
forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have
yet to find out!
Derry |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Mike Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject:
Re: more dumbed down camera features - commentary & question |
|
|
"Derry Argue" <home@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns96404CBDFC73Cderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | "PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in
news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net:
The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours.
Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been
forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have
yet to find out!
Derry
|
Well, I still have my old Sony 8mm F-70 camcorder that has
apparently lost a couple of chip caps on the circuit cards (from
what I have been able to find out this is common). Camera
works fine, but the motor drive for the transport is screwed up
(uses a 3 phase motor from the schematic). After a bunch of
web searching in the past, I found a number of comments from
people who had fixed this problem by replacing the chip caps
on the main board (all I need to do is work up the time and
energy to take it apart all the way down to that level).
mikey |
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Mike Fields
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject:
Re: camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual st |
|
|
Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info
there ???
mikey
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com...
| Quote: | HEY! Answered my own question!
I found the following online:
_________
On D8 cams since 1999/2000:
-Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop.
-Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop.
-Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000)
-Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris
is
closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned
down to minimize outline effect.
-Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance,
electronic
stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus
only
to avoid "hunting".
-Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs
on
the windshield.
-Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th)
-Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops
Menus (NTSC):
-Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect)
Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the
even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates
the
one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical
resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th
exposure.
_________
Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be
useful!
C.J.
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com...
Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as
long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much
performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV
camera "brains."
Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across
a
discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's:
_________
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as
white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree
leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen
Sony
TV..."
_________
Interesting. Comments?
I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual
controls
of current prosumer models.
Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today.
Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret
hidden
manual modes etc?
C.J.
|
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C.J.Patten
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:
Re: camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual st |
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Hey Mikey!
Here's a few links:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/archive/index.php/f-4.html
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html
http://dvin.chez.tiscali.fr/
Have fun and let us know if you find anything else!
BTW: what's the difference between the TRV720 and 320 *aside from* the LCD
screen size?
They both use the same CCD...
C.
"Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ufadne2nBIHdjPTfRVn-sg@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info
there ???
mikey
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com...
HEY! Answered my own question!
I found the following online:
_________
On D8 cams since 1999/2000:
-Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop.
-Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop.
-Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000)
-Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris
is
closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned
down to minimize outline effect.
-Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance,
electronic
stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus
only
to avoid "hunting".
-Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs
on
the windshield.
-Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th)
-Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops
Menus (NTSC):
-Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect)
Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the
even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates
the
one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical
resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th
exposure.
_________
Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be
useful!
C.J.
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com...
Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as
long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as
much
performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding
DV
camera "brains."
Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming
across
a
discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's:
_________
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images
show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around
black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as
white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree
leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is
to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture
becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen
Sony
TV..."
_________
Interesting. Comments?
I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual
controls
of current prosumer models.
Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today.
Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret
hidden
manual modes etc?
C.J.
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PTravel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: more dumbed down camera features - commentary & question |
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"Derry Argue" <home@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns96404CBDFC73Cderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | "PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in
news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net:
The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours.
Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been
forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have
yet to find out!
|
The weak link in all electronic components are capacitors -- they can start
to fail after 10 or 15 years or so.
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Mike Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:04 am Post subject:
Re: camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual st |
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Don't know the difference -- I have the TRV 520 that has been
good except for dieing just before we left for Alaska in 2001
and managing to find a guy in Seattle to fix it (one of the IC's
on the power control board was not completely soldered down
according to him. No problems since then.) If I remember
correctly, the 720 had Color viewfinder and the 520 is B/W.
Seems to me the 720 may have also had a color printer of some
sort ?? so you could print pix. It has been a while since I got
mine so the details are a bit "fuzzy". I do have a pdf version
of the TRV520 manual I got a while back if that helps (about 5 megs).
Thanks for the other links ( I was familiar with bealecorner -- found
a bunch of good stuff there myself in the past). Somewhere I also
have a copy of the old LANC protocol from Sony (about 18
pages "please to be so careful". ) Sort of a strange protocol --
9600 baud, but the camera is the "master" and sends the byte
stream (8 bytes?) -- you have to watch it go by and fill in the
correct bits using wired or logic as they go by for control. Easy
to do with a microprocessor, but a pain to try and do from a
windows ap since windows is not very nice about letting you
have control of the hardware and the timing.
mikey
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:PJKdnSYHGJodhfTfRVn-1g@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Hey Mikey!
Here's a few links:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/archive/index.php/f-4.html
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html
http://dvin.chez.tiscali.fr/
Have fun and let us know if you find anything else!
BTW: what's the difference between the TRV720 and 320 *aside from* the LCD
screen size?
They both use the same CCD...
C.
"Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ufadne2nBIHdjPTfRVn-sg@comcast.com...
Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info
there ???
mikey
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com...
HEY! Answered my own question!
I found the following online:
_________
On D8 cams since 1999/2000:
-Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop.
-Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop.
-Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000)
-Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before
iris
is
closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement)
turned
down to minimize outline effect.
-Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance,
electronic
stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus
only
to avoid "hunting".
-Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or
bugs
on
the windshield.
-Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th)
-Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops
Menus (NTSC):
-Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic
stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect)
Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards
the
even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it
duplicates
the
one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical
resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th
exposure.
_________
Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be
useful!
C.J.
"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com...
Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear
as
long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as
much
performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding
DV
camera "brains."
Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming
across
a
discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's:
_________
"...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images
show
heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around
black
details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as
white
clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an
unconfortably
"busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree
leaves
in a forest scene.
The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is
to
select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture
becomes
"cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal...
I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4
years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen
Sony
TV..."
_________
Interesting. Comments?
I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual
controls
of current prosumer models.
Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today.
Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret
hidden
manual modes etc?
C.J.
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