| Author |
Message |
C.Reading
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:
Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Driv
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I ha
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the ide
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I the
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronic
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically h
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both o
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn’t say whic
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack o
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I ca
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I a
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not b
enough (I only started collecting CD’s about two or three years ago
and I have 80 something already – I have always thought that it woul
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around – or am I bein
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break.
Can anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
Thanks in ancticipation,
Colin Reading
--
C.Reading
|
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 |
The Open Sourceror's Appr
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
C.Reading <C.Reading.1lk01y@audiobanter.com> wrote in
news:C.Reading.1lk01y@audiobanter.com:
| Quote: | I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I had
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the idea
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I then
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronics
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically he
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both of
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn't say which
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack of
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until I
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I can
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I am
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not be
enough (I only started collecting CD's about two or three years ago,
and I have 80 something already - I have always thought that it would
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around - or am I being
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but I
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small)
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender,
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break.
Can anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
|
1. Avoid Sony, period. As long as the device is working you'll be happy,
but when (not if) it breaks, Sony will let you know that the best solution
is for you to buy a new unit - regardless of warranty status.
2. Flash units are more reliable than hard disk units precisely because of
the lack of moving parts. Get one that takes plug-in cards (either in lieu
of, or in addition to, internal memory) and you can carry metric buttloads
of music with you. Flash cards up to 1 gig are now affordable, and "flash"
hard drives (the same drives found in the Creative Nomad and others) over 2
gigs are available. Of course, the drives bring you back to the mechanical
reliability issue.
3. Don't rely on brand names as your sole criterion for quality. Unknown
(to you) brands are as good (or as bad) as well-known brands, and usually
cost less.
4. Don't hurry. If you shop places like http://www.geeks.com you'll be able
to get a good player for half what it would cost elsewhere; it may not be
the latest model, or the flashiest color, but it will work well and cost
less.
--
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Who is Brad Jesness? http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
To the spammers, my motto: FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:26 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
C.Reading wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard
Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players.
|
Please be aware of the following when considering your choice of
portable music listening device:
1. The newly announced Hi-MD players by Sony (out Spring 2005) will
play MP3 files natively (no need to convert to ATRAC as with previous
MD walkmans). This includes recording live events to MP3 format and
the ability to digitally upload the recordings to your computer for
burning to CD.
2. Minidiscs also give you the option to use ATRAC format, which is
said to sound better than MP3 at similar bitrates, or equivalent to MP3
when using lower ATRAC bitrates. This means smaller music files but
better sound (more music per gigabyte than mp3 without noticable sonic
degradation).
3. The price of a 1GB Hi-MD disc is currently $7 (and this will
decrease as they become more available). How many Hi-MD discs can you
buy for the price of one 1GB flash-card?
4. Minidiscs are highly durable (the discs can survive being thrown,
dropped, exposed to heat and strong magnetic fields, static electricity
or even being submersed in water). If a discs is lost or broken, it is
not as big a deal as losing or breaking an expensive and delicate 1GB
flash-memory card.
5. Minidiscs can be traded, given away to friends with MD walkmans,
sent through the mail, etc.
6. You can use Hi-MD walkmans as a USB data-drive for backup of files
from digital cameras, laptops, etc. Then the minidiscs can be stored
in safe place. Sure, you could backup your files to an I-POD or
Flash-media walkman, but the media is not removable or cheap enough for
long-term storage.
7. Sony sells a flash-card reader which can be connected to Hi-MD
Walkmans for backup of digital images to minidisc straight from a
camera, if you want to bypass a computer (i.e. while on vacation when
you run out of space on your digital camera and want to empty it to
take more photos).
8. Despite what you've heard, I don't think minidiscs walkmans are any
less reliable than other types of devices. I've used mine for two
years without a problem. As for repair expense; I think an I-Pod or
Flash media device would be just as expensive to repair. Miniature
electronics usually cost quite a lot for even the simplest repair,
regardless of brand.
9. If your minidisc walkman ever does break down or you upgrade to a
newer model, all your music compilations survive on portable discs
which can be used with your next MD walkman.
10. If you drop your Minidisc Walkman, either a) nothing bad happens,
or b) your walkman breaks but the music survives on disc. If you drop
your I-Pod and the hard drive crashes then all your music is lost.
11. The great thing about a minidisc walkman is that you do not NEED a
computer to use it. A MD walkman works wonderfully WITH a computer,
but you can also record onto discs straight from a CD player or other
source (other people's I-PODs or Flash media players, etc.) via an
optical cable or analogue wire. This makes it the only truely
self-sufficient portable digital walkman type.
12. Scenario: You're at home and late for work. You're also bored with
the songs in your walkman. With a MD player you just pop in a
different minidisc from your library and you have all new music for the
day. With a Flash Media player you have to empty the card, turn on
your computer, download fresh songs (by this time you're even more late
for work).
13. With minidisc, you can make CD quality recordings of live events by
using a microphone (one of the really unique and fun uses of Minidisc
machines).
14. The power consumption of minidisc machines is really good. I get
between 24 and 43 hours of playback with a single AA battery in my
MZ-R700. Some of the newer NET-MD walkmans are even better than this
(up to 100 hours with some MD-players). I can use off-the-shelf
batteries that are cheap and available anywhere.
15. You don't need to dedicate large portions of your computer's
hard-drive to storing MP3s if you own a Minidisc walkman.
Brent |
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Codifus
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:51 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
C.Reading wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I had
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the idea
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I then
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronics
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically he
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both of
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn’t say which
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack of
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until I
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I can
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I am
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not be
enough (I only started collecting CD’s about two or three years ago,
and I have 80 something already – I have always thought that it would
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around – or am I being
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but I
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small)
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender,
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break.
Can anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
Thanks in ancticipation,
Colin Reading.
Definitely get a flash player if you want reliability. Also, consider |
the Iriver units. I just picked up a IFP-790. It's got 256 MB of memory.
They also have a 1 GB 799 and 899 units as well. They can play MP3s,
OGG, and WMA files. If you reallly need large capacity on the go, then a
hard drive based portable player may be what you need. Otherwise, with
flash players, you fill them up with music, get bored of that set, and
fill them up again with a different set of music. So the idea you said
of un-limited expandability about mini-discs would semi-apply to flash
players, only now the "disk" is the memory, be it 256 MB or 1 GB.
HTH
CD |
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Codifus
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | C.Reading wrote:
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard
Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players.
Please be aware of the following when considering your choice of
portable music listening device:
1. The newly announced Hi-MD players by Sony (out Spring 2005) will
play MP3 files natively (no need to convert to ATRAC as with previous
MD walkmans). This includes recording live events to MP3 format and
the ability to digitally upload the recordings to your computer for
burning to CD.
2. Minidiscs also give you the option to use ATRAC format, which is
said to sound better than MP3 at similar bitrates, or equivalent to MP3
when using lower ATRAC bitrates. This means smaller music files but
better sound (more music per gigabyte than mp3 without noticable sonic
degradation).
This is not a massive difference. Slight, if anything, advantage to MD. |
| Quote: |
3. The price of a 1GB Hi-MD disc is currently $7 (and this will
decrease as they become more available). How many Hi-MD discs can you
buy for the price of one 1GB flash-card?
|
Yes, but a 1 GB flash card is many many times more convenient. You
literally put the entire player in your shirt pocket.
| Quote: |
4. Minidiscs are highly durable (the discs can survive being thrown,
dropped, exposed to heat and strong magnetic fields, static electricity
or even being submersed in water). If a discs is lost or broken, it is
not as big a deal as losing or breaking an expensive and delicate 1GB
flash-memory card.
|
Flash players aren't delicate, the hard drive based players are.
| Quote: |
5. Minidiscs can be traded, given away to friends with MD walkmans,
sent through the mail, etc.
|
OK, let's assume that everyone has an MD player. How realistic is that?
| Quote: |
6. You can use Hi-MD walkmans as a USB data-drive for backup of files
from digital cameras, laptops, etc. Then the minidiscs can be stored
in safe place. Sure, you could backup your files to an I-POD or
Flash-media walkman, but the media is not removable or cheap enough for
long-term storage.
|
Hmmm. I wonder how many people buy an MD player for its storage/backup
capability.
| Quote: |
7. Sony sells a flash-card reader which can be connected to Hi-MD
Walkmans for backup of digital images to minidisc straight from a
camera, if you want to bypass a computer (i.e. while on vacation when
you run out of space on your digital camera and want to empty it to
take more photos).
That's definitely a good use of MDs |
| Quote: |
8. Despite what you've heard, I don't think minidiscs walkmans are any
less reliable than other types of devices. I've used mine for two
years without a problem. As for repair expense; I think an I-Pod or
Flash media device would be just as expensive to repair. Miniature
electronics usually cost quite a lot for even the simplest repair,
regardless of brand.
|
Flash players have no moving parts. If it's broke, it's broke. But are
not very likely to break at all. Flash players are the most durable of
all portable players. Heck, they're built with with athletic people in
mind. Go jogging with it. Try that with an MD.
| Quote: |
9. If your minidisc walkman ever does break down or you upgrade to a
newer model, all your music compilations survive on portable discs
which can be used with your next MD walkman.
|
If there is a next MD walkman. The crators of the walkman have missed
the boat. Apple got it with the Ipod. The ipod is really the next
generation walkman which Sony should have made.
| Quote: |
10. If you drop your Minidisc Walkman, either a) nothing bad happens,
or b) your walkman breaks but the music survives on disc. If you drop
your I-Pod and the hard drive crashes then all your music is lost.
And if you drop your flash player? Pick it up, wipe it off, and hit the |
play button:) In fact, the music was probably still playing on your
flash player when you picked up your heaphones off of the floor:)
| Quote: | 11. The great thing about a minidisc walkman is that you do not NEED a
computer to use it. A MD walkman works wonderfully WITH a computer,
but you can also record onto discs straight from a CD player or other
source (other people's I-PODs or Flash media players, etc.) via an
optical cable or analogue wire. This makes it the only truely
self-sufficient portable digital walkman type.
|
Portable flash players like the IRiver do the EXACT SAME THING. I can
record FM stereo radio, voice recorder, or attach to the line-in and and
record any audio source, straight to MP3 . . .without a computer. My
ONLY limitaion is memory.
| Quote: |
12. Scenario: You're at home and late for work. You're also bored with
the songs in your walkman. With a MD player you just pop in a
different minidisc from your library and you have all new music for the
day. With a Flash Media player you have to empty the card, turn on
your computer, download fresh songs (by this time you're even more late
for work).
BUT, the assumption here is that he has made a bunch of minidiscs. It is |
only fair, then, that we can also assume that he made a bunch of MP3s.
In that case, attach your flash player to your computer, launch the
application prorgram that loads your flash player, download MP3s. I
donwloaded 150 MB of music into my flash player in 5 minutes. This was
on my USB 1.1 computer. My flash player is USB 2.0 and probably would
have gone faster if connected to a USB 2.0 computer.
| Quote: |
13. With minidisc, you can make CD quality recordings of live events by
using a microphone (one of the really unique and fun uses of Minidisc
machines).
With the Iriver Flash player, you can record live events up to 320 kbps |
MP3 quality using the built in microphone.
| Quote: |
14. The power consumption of minidisc machines is really good. I get
between 24 and 43 hours of playback with a single AA battery in my
MZ-R700. Some of the newer NET-MD walkmans are even better than this
(up to 100 hours with some MD-players). I can use off-the-shelf
batteries that are cheap and available anywhere.
|
My Iriver player uses a single AA as well. It is also so conveniently
small, that it's about the size of 3 AAs held together with a
rubberband:) The battery will last from 17-34 hours. Comparable. This
player uses common power sources, too:)
| Quote: |
15. You don't need to dedicate large portions of your computer's
hard-drive to storing MP3s if you own a Minidisc walkman.
True. But now you have to keep a stack or cupboard of Minidsics:) |
The only disadvantage to flash players is capacity. Their huge advantage
is their fantastically diminuitive size. Flash players pretty much the
future of portable audio players. If you need large capacity, then get
and HD based player.
Here's a link to a review of my player, the iRiver IFP-790T;
http://gear.ign.com/articles/517/517527p1.html?fromint=1
CD |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:12 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
"Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d0l2tr$140j$1@news.interpublic.com...
| Quote: | C.Reading wrote:
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I had
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the idea
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I then
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronics
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically he
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both of
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn’t say which
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack of
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until I
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I can
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I am
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not be
enough (I only started collecting CD’s about two or three years ago,
and I have 80 something already – I have always thought that it would
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around – or am I being
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but I
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small)
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender,
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break. Can
anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
Thanks in ancticipation,
Colin Reading.
Definitely get a flash player if you want reliability. Also, consider
the Iriver units. I just picked up a IFP-790. It's got 256 MB of memory.
They also have a 1 GB 799 and 899 units as well. They can play MP3s,
OGG, and WMA files. If you reallly need large capacity on the go, then a
hard drive based portable player may be what you need. Otherwise, with
flash players, you fill them up with music, get bored of that set, and
fill them up again with a different set of music. So the idea you said of
un-limited expandability about mini-discs would semi-apply to flash
players, only now the "disk" is the memory, be it 256 MB or 1 GB.
|
I bought an IFP-790 as well. But I must be stupid, because I still haven't
figured out how to use all the features it comes with!
Norm Strong |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
Codifus wrote:
| Quote: | woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote:
C.Reading wrote:
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard
Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players.
Please be aware of the following when considering your choice of
portable music listening device:
2. Minidiscs also give you the option to use ATRAC format, which is
said to sound better than MP3
This is not a massive difference. Slight, if anything, advantage to
MD. |
Oh, I forgot the mention that the new Hi-MD minidisc walkmans will also
allow recording to uncompressed PCM audio at 44.1KHz 16-bit (CD
quality). A great boon for people doing live event recording,
scientific field recording, audio for film production, etc.
| Quote: | 3. The price of a 1GB Hi-MD disc is currently $7 (and this will
decrease as they become more available). How many Hi-MD discs can
you
buy for the price of one 1GB flash-card?
Yes, but a 1 GB flash card is many many times more convenient. You
literally put the entire player in your shirt pocket.
|
My minidisc walkman fits in my shirt pocket. It's four years old and I
believe there are lighter models now. I will concede that Flash based
MP3 players will always be smaller, because MD walkmans are limited by
the size of the disc....but Minidisc walkmans are by no stretch of the
imagination large or bulky.
| Quote: | 4. Minidiscs are highly durable (the discs can survive being
thrown,
dropped, exposed to heat and strong magnetic fields, static
electricity
or even being submersed in water). If a discs is lost or broken,
it is
not as big a deal as losing or breaking an expensive and delicate
1GB
flash-memory card.
Flash players aren't delicate, the hard drive based players are.
|
You're right, the Flash players aren't delicate, but the memory cards
are. One of the respondents to the original post suggested carrying
around extra cards for more songs. Loose cards can be damaged by heat
or static electricity. Memory cards can also be corrupted if you pull
one out of the slot while a read/write process is in progress.
Although it is not recommended, you can pop a Minidisc out of the
walkman while it is still playing and it won't be harmed.
Also, those expensive memory cards have a limited number of
writes/rewrites. Granted, that number is in the tens-of-thousands, but
compared to the 1-million allowable re-writes of a $2 to $7 Minidisc,
it is a small number.
| Quote: | 6. You can use Hi-MD walkmans as a USB data-drive for backup of
files
from digital cameras, laptops, etc. Then the minidiscs can be
stored
in safe place.
Hmmm. I wonder how many people buy an MD player for its
storage/backup
capability.
|
I don't think anyone does, but it's an extra feature that is a perk of
Minidisc.
| Quote: | 7. Sony sells a flash-card reader which can be connected to Hi-MD
Walkmans for backup of digital images to minidisc straight from a
camera, if you want to bypass a computer (i.e. while on vacation
when
you run out of space on your digital camera and want to empty it to
take more photos).
That's definitely a good use of MDs
|
One of the new Hi-MD walkmans out this spring will feature a built in
digital camera and colour LCD screen. I suspect video and other file
types are also being considered.
| Quote: | 8. Despite what you've heard, I don't think minidiscs walkmans are
any
less reliable than other types of devices.
Flash players have no moving parts. If it's broke, it's broke. But
are
not very likely to break at all. Flash players are the most durable
of
all portable players. Heck, they're built with with athletic people
in
mind. Go jogging with it. Try that with an MD.
|
True, flash players are great for this. But minidisc players are
definitely good for jogging! They don't skip either....in fact, that
was one of the selling points when the format first came out in 1992.
In fact, Sony even sells a sports model - but any MD walkman has really
good anti-skip protection.
| Quote: | 9. If your minidisc walkman ever does break down or you upgrade to
a
newer model, all your music compilations survive on portable discs
which can be used with your next MD walkman.
If there is a next MD walkman. The crators of the walkman have missed
the boat. Apple got it with the Ipod. The ipod is really the next
generation walkman which Sony should have made.
|
I do agree that many mistakes were made by Sony with the Minidisc. If
they had implemented MP3 capability earlier, they might have had a hit
on their hands. It might be too late. I do also agree that flash
media (or solid state) is probably the future for portable music
listening. It will EVENTUALLY kill minidisc, and also hard-drive
players such as the I-Pod. But right now while flash memory is still
so expensive for fairly low memory sizes, Minidisc is still a very
viable option with some unique features that can't be matched by flash
players.
| Quote: | 12. Scenario: You're at home and late for work. You're also bored
with
the songs in your walkman. With a MD player you just pop in a
different minidisc from your library and you have all new music for
the
day. With a Flash Media player you have to empty the card, turn on
your computer, download fresh songs (by this time you're even more
late
for work).
BUT, the assumption here is that he has made a bunch of minidiscs.
|
Yes, but since minidiscs are only a few dollars each, this is a safe
assumption. Anyone who owns an MD walkman would probably have at least
half a dozen.
| Quote: | It is
only fair, then, that we can also assume that he made a bunch of
MP3s.
In that case, attach your flash player to your computer, launch the
application prorgram that loads your flash player, download MP3s. I
donwloaded 150 MB of music into my flash player in 5 minutes. This
was
on my USB 1.1 computer. My flash player is USB 2.0 and probably would
have gone faster if connected to a USB 2.0 computer.
|
But with MD you don't even have to touch your computer. Just pop in
another Hi-MD disc and you have a whole new 40 hours worth of music.
Takes a few seconds versus the time it takes to boot one's computer,
choose songs, download, shut down, etc.
| Quote: | 13. With minidisc, you can make CD quality recordings of live
events by
using a microphone (one of the really unique and fun uses of
Minidisc
machines).
With the Iriver Flash player, you can record live events up to 320
kbps
MP3 quality using the built in microphone.
|
Yes, but there is a big difference between the built-in mic of the
I-River (a mono? microphone intended mostly for taking voice memos) and
the mic-input of a minidisc walkman, to which professional quality
microphones can be attached. Some live recordings made on minidisc are
truely stunning in quality. Even nore so now that you have the option
to record in uncompressed PCM audio on Hi-MD machines. That's why MD
is a favourite format of concert tapers and is even used as a safety
backup format by people doing location audio professionally.
| Quote: | The only disadvantage to flash players is capacity. Their huge
advantage
is their fantastically diminuitive size. Flash players pretty much
the
future of portable audio players. If you need large capacity, then
get
and HD based player.
|
I will again concede that if ALL you want is a walkman for listening to
music on the go, then a flash player might be the best choice. Right
now it is debatable. In 5 years when 10 Gigabyte flash cards are
available for $20 each, Flash memory will be the clear winner. So I
suppose it is inevitable that Flash media will eventually kill hard
drive players and MD as the most popular format.
However, if in addition to listening, you also want to do high quality
live recording on cheap removable media, then MD is for you. This
makes it a must for musicians, journalists who do interviews, people
collecting audio for research purposes (scientists, historians,
naturalists), conert tapers etc. Also, if you are an audiophile where
sound quality is of the utmost importance (if you have 'golden ears')
then the superior sound of ATRAC and uncompressed PCM audio will be a
definite attraction.
If Flash media eventually adopts all the special features of MD
machines I have listed above, I would be consider buying one. For now,
MD fulfills those requirements.
Here are links to the new (2005) MD units:
http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5659
http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/photo.html |
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Codifus
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
normanstrong@comcast.net wrote:
| Quote: | "Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d0l2tr$140j$1@news.interpublic.com...
C.Reading wrote:
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I had
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the idea
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I then
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronics
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically he
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both of
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn’t say which
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack of
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until I
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I can
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I am
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not be
enough (I only started collecting CD’s about two or three years ago,
and I have 80 something already – I have always thought that it would
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around – or am I being
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but I
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small)
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender,
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break. Can
anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
Thanks in ancticipation,
Colin Reading.
Definitely get a flash player if you want reliability. Also, consider
the Iriver units. I just picked up a IFP-790. It's got 256 MB of memory.
They also have a 1 GB 799 and 899 units as well. They can play MP3s,
OGG, and WMA files. If you reallly need large capacity on the go, then a
hard drive based portable player may be what you need. Otherwise, with
flash players, you fill them up with music, get bored of that set, and
fill them up again with a different set of music. So the idea you said of
un-limited expandability about mini-discs would semi-apply to flash
players, only now the "disk" is the memory, be it 256 MB or 1 GB.
I bought an IFP-790 as well. But I must be stupid, because I still haven't
figured out how to use all the features it comes with!
Norm Strong
OK, OK, I'll be the 1st to admitt, The Iriver's aren't the most |
intuitive:) Apple has got that down from what I read. I'm still figuring
things out myself. I carry the manual with me EVERYWHERE:)
Actually, I turned on the radio yesterday. Yay!
Even with it's not too friendly interface, the number of features and
quality of the audio is just too good. I hope you replaced the
headphones. The ones that came with the player don't show you the
players true capability at all. That's usually the case with most
players I come across.
If you need a tip on anything, feel free to e-mail me.
CD |
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Codifus
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:39 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
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|
woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Codifus wrote:
woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote:
C.Reading wrote:
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard
Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players.
Please be aware of the following when considering your choice of
portable music listening device:
2. Minidiscs also give you the option to use ATRAC format, which is
said to sound better than MP3
This is not a massive difference. Slight, if anything, advantage to
MD.
Oh, I forgot the mention that the new Hi-MD minidisc walkmans will also
allow recording to uncompressed PCM audio at 44.1KHz 16-bit (CD
quality). A great boon for people doing live event recording,
scientific field recording, audio for film production, etc.
|
Fair enough. Better advantage to Minidisc. Is the Mic stereo? This kind
of feature would better distinguish the MD player being suited to
professional music consumers where the flash player is more suited to
the regular audio consumer. And, by the way, the iriver 790T Mic is
mono, but it very high fidelity. It surprised all hell out of me. The
player also has line-in and can record (in stereo) as a well as a
Nakamachi Dragon using metal tape and Dolby C. I really
did not expect that much, and very very happily got it:)
| Quote: |
3. The price of a 1GB Hi-MD disc is currently $7 (and this will
decrease as they become more available). How many Hi-MD discs can
|
Minidisks have been around for a while. I don't see them taking off.
Sony has tried. In fact most new optical formats are still struggling
against good ole Redbook CD-Audio. Sony should be content, though, they
invented CD-Audio. Ironically, the audio CD looks like it might kill
SACD, DVD-A, and perhaps even the Minidisk. Why buy a $7, 1 GB minidisk,
wheras you could have a portable HD recorder and get a 100 pack (65 GB
worth data archiving capacity) of CDRs for $30?
| Quote: | you
buy for the price of one 1GB flash-card?
Yes, but a 1 GB flash card is many many times more convenient. You
literally put the entire player in your shirt pocket.
My minidisc walkman fits in my shirt pocket. It's four years old and I
believe there are lighter models now. I will concede that Flash based
MP3 players will always be smaller, because MD walkmans are limited by
the size of the disc....but Minidisc walkmans are by no stretch of the
imagination large or bulky.
|
| Quote: |
4. Minidiscs are highly durable (the discs can survive being
thrown,
dropped, exposed to heat and strong magnetic fields, static
electricity
or even being submersed in water). If a discs is lost or broken,
it is
not as big a deal as losing or breaking an expensive and delicate
1GB
flash-memory card.
Flash players aren't delicate, the hard drive based players are.
You're right, the Flash players aren't delicate, but the memory cards
are. One of the respondents to the original post suggested carrying
around extra cards for more songs. Loose cards can be damaged by heat
or static electricity. Memory cards can also be corrupted if you pull
one out of the slot while a read/write process is in progress.
Although it is not recommended, you can pop a Minidisc out of the
walkman while it is still playing and it won't be harmed.
|
One of the features, or perhaps drawback, of the irver units is that the
memory is permanent. No upgradability. I have a 256 MB and that's it
unless I buy a new flash player. The benefit of that is that it should
be even more durable than expandable memory units.
| Quote: |
Also, those expensive memory cards have a limited number of
writes/rewrites. Granted, that number is in the tens-of-thousands, but
compared to the 1-million allowable re-writes of a $2 to $7 Minidisc,
it is a small number.
|
Hmm, did not know that. I'll have to check into that. Anyhow, as you
said, like 10,000 is a lmited number:)
| Quote: |
6. You can use Hi-MD walkmans as a USB data-drive for backup of
files
from digital cameras, laptops, etc. Then the minidiscs can be
stored
in safe place.
Hmmm. I wonder how many people buy an MD player for its
storage/backup
capability.
I don't think anyone does, but it's an extra feature that is a perk of
Minidisc.
7. Sony sells a flash-card reader which can be connected to Hi-MD
Walkmans for backup of digital images to minidisc straight from a
camera, if you want to bypass a computer (i.e. while on vacation
when
you run out of space on your digital camera and want to empty it to
take more photos).
That's definitely a good use of MDs
One of the new Hi-MD walkmans out this spring will feature a built in
digital camera and colour LCD screen. I suspect video and other file
types are also being considered.
8. Despite what you've heard, I don't think minidiscs walkmans are
any
less reliable than other types of devices.
Flash players have no moving parts. If it's broke, it's broke. But
are
not very likely to break at all. Flash players are the most durable
of
all portable players. Heck, they're built with with athletic people
in
mind. Go jogging with it. Try that with an MD.
True, flash players are great for this. But minidisc players are
definitely good for jogging! They don't skip either....in fact, that
was one of the selling points when the format first came out in 1992.
In fact, Sony even sells a sports model - but any MD walkman has really
good anti-skip protection.
9. If your minidisc walkman ever does break down or you upgrade to
a
newer model, all your music compilations survive on portable discs
which can be used with your next MD walkman.
If there is a next MD walkman. The crators of the walkman have missed
the boat. Apple got it with the Ipod. The ipod is really the next
generation walkman which Sony should have made.
I do agree that many mistakes were made by Sony with the Minidisc. If
they had implemented MP3 capability earlier, they might have had a hit
on their hands. It might be too late. I do also agree that flash
media (or solid state) is probably the future for portable music
listening. It will EVENTUALLY kill minidisc, and also hard-drive
players such as the I-Pod. But right now while flash memory is still
so expensive for fairly low memory sizes, Minidisc is still a very
viable option with some unique features that can't be matched by flash
players.
|
True, but 1 gig for $200 or 256 MB for $130 ain't bad for Irivers and
all their functionality.
| Quote: |
12. Scenario: You're at home and late for work. You're also bored
with
the songs in your walkman. With a MD player you just pop in a
different minidisc from your library and you have all new music for
the
day. With a Flash Media player you have to empty the card, turn on
your computer, download fresh songs (by this time you're even more
late
for work).
BUT, the assumption here is that he has made a bunch of minidiscs.
Yes, but since minidiscs are only a few dollars each, this is a safe
assumption. Anyone who owns an MD walkman would probably have at least
half a dozen.
It is
only fair, then, that we can also assume that he made a bunch of
MP3s.
In that case, attach your flash player to your computer, launch the
application prorgram that loads your flash player, download MP3s. I
donwloaded 150 MB of music into my flash player in 5 minutes. This
was
on my USB 1.1 computer. My flash player is USB 2.0 and probably would
have gone faster if connected to a USB 2.0 computer.
But with MD you don't even have to touch your computer. Just pop in
another Hi-MD disc and you have a whole new 40 hours worth of music.
Takes a few seconds versus the time it takes to boot one's computer,
choose songs, download, shut down, etc.
|
OK, that's true. But assuming you have to boot the computer download and
shutdown is stretching it a bit:) Personally, I leave my home computer
on all the time. I just leave the monitor turned off.
| Quote: |
13. With minidisc, you can make CD quality recordings of live
events by
using a microphone (one of the really unique and fun uses of
Minidisc
machines).
With the Iriver Flash player, you can record live events up to 320
kbps
MP3 quality using the built in microphone.
Yes, but there is a big difference between the built-in mic of the
I-River (a mono? microphone intended mostly for taking voice memos) and
the mic-input of a minidisc walkman, to which professional quality
microphones can be attached. Some live recordings made on minidisc are
truely stunning in quality. Even nore so now that you have the option
to record in uncompressed PCM audio on Hi-MD machines. That's why MD
is a favourite format of concert tapers and is even used as a safety
backup format by people doing location audio professionally.
|
The mic is mono, but it is very high fidelity. This ain't no regular
voice recorder. No indeed:) I recorded my 3 yr old daughter's voice and
played it back to her on the headphones. It freaked her out because it
sounded too real . . . like she was inside the headphones:) She likes
sounds when they sound like toys:)
| Quote: |
The only disadvantage to flash players is capacity. Their huge
advantage
is their fantastically diminuitive size. Flash players pretty much
the
future of portable audio players. If you need large capacity, then
get
and HD based player.
I will again concede that if ALL you want is a walkman for listening to
music on the go, then a flash player might be the best choice. Right
now it is debatable. In 5 years when 10 Gigabyte flash cards are
available for $20 each, Flash memory will be the clear winner. So I
suppose it is inevitable that Flash media will eventually kill hard
drive players and MD as the most popular format.
However, if in addition to listening, you also want to do high quality
live recording on cheap removable media, then MD is for you. This
makes it a must for musicians, journalists who do interviews, people
collecting audio for research purposes (scientists, historians,
naturalists), conert tapers etc. Also, if you are an audiophile where
sound quality is of the utmost importance (if you have 'golden ears')
then the superior sound of ATRAC and uncompressed PCM audio will be a
definite attraction.
|
ATRAC is lossy compression just like MP3. I doubt that there would be a
significant difference between the best ATRAC and a 320 kbps MP3. On the
other hand, having unlimited disks so that you have un-compressed audio
on them is a viable plus for MD.
| Quote: |
If Flash media eventually adopts all the special features of MD
machines I have listed above, I would be consider buying one. For now,
MD fulfills those requirements.
|
Looks like if Apple releases an Ipod professional, analogous to Sony's
original walkman professional, then Sony's MD is done. A 40 GB player
with a high quality stereo mic would be it. Flash just does not have
enough capacity for un-compressed recordings.
Actually, musing a bit on capacity, a 1 GB player can record 113 minutes
of CD quality (44/16) audio, that's just under 2 hours of music. When 2
GB and 4 GB flash players come available and the cost becomes a bit more
reasonable, then the flash player will be it.
I see now that, if I was more professionaly inclined in the way I work
with music and want to record live events in the absolute highest
quality audio, whereby afterwards I would take the recording to a studio
and mix, reverb and add other effects, I would go for a MD player too.
If I were to record that same event and just copy it to the computer ,
do minimal editing such as nomralizing and cutting out bits of the
session etc, then burn a CD, A 320 kbps MP3s would be fine by me:)
CD |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
| Quote: | I see now that, if I was more professionaly inclined in the way I
work
with music and want to record live events in the absolute highest
quality audio, whereby afterwards I would take the recording to a
studio
and mix, reverb and add other effects, I would go for a MD player
too.
If I were to record that same event and just copy it to the computer
,
do minimal editing such as nomralizing and cutting out bits of the
session etc, then burn a CD, A 320 kbps MP3s would be fine by me:)
CD
|
Nice debating with you. Some good points said on both sides of the
issue.
All the best!
Brent |
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The Open Sourceror's Appr
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:15 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote in news:1110387226.530415.152300
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: | You're right, the Flash players aren't delicate, but the memory cards
are. One of the respondents to the original post suggested carrying
around extra cards for more songs. Loose cards can be damaged by heat
or static electricity.
|
As can Minidiscs - especially heat. And it takes less heat for less time to
severly damage any disk (CD, DVD, MD) than to bother a flash card.
| Quote: | Memory cards can also be corrupted if you pull
one out of the slot while a read/write process is in progress.
|
Of course. And that can be annoying, but it's not *permanent* damage. The
solution? Treat your flash cards as you would any other media that you care
about; pay attention and don't do anything stupid.
| Quote: | Although it is not recommended, you can pop a Minidisc out of the
walkman while it is still playing and it won't be harmed.
|
Unless, of course, you happen to scratch it. Scratches caused by a disk
spinning at 300 RPM impacting, say, the drive spindle are likely to be
severe enough to make the disk useless - permanently.
Flash cards are no more prone to damage than minidiscs, are faster to load,
easier to transport, and lighter (not that weight is likely to be an issue
unless you have a collection like mine that requires more than 80 gigs of
storage).
The bottom line is, how much physical space are you willing to devote to
music storage? How much are you willing to spend to replace the player when
(not if; entropy is inescapable) it fails? And what is the manufacturer's
reputation (if any) for standing behind their warranty?
My experience with Sony tells me that they don't care about the customer
once he's spent his money. Your mileage may vary.
--
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Who is Brad Jesness? http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
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The Open Sourceror's Appr
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:15 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
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|
Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in news:d0nj30$1s7a$1
@news.interpublic.com:
| Quote: | Also, those expensive memory cards have a limited number of
writes/rewrites. Granted, that number is in the tens-of-thousands, but
compared to the 1-million allowable re-writes of a $2 to $7 Minidisc,
it is a small number.
Hmm, did not know that. I'll have to check into that. Anyhow, as you
said, like 10,000 is a lmited number:)
|
It's a number you're unlikely to hit in your lifetime, unless you insist on
rewriting every few minutes.
Assume 10,000 rewrites (which I believe is too low by an order of
magnitude, BTW). That's more than 27 years if you rewrite the flash memory
once a day.
The "shelf life" of optical media is now estimated around 10 years for
high-quality disks. MD is not "high quality" by archival standards, so
you'd better plan on 5 years.
--
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Who is Brad Jesness? http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
To the spammers, my motto: FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC. |
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Codifus
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:25 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
woodenflutes@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | I see now that, if I was more professionaly inclined in the way I
work
with music and want to record live events in the absolute highest
quality audio, whereby afterwards I would take the recording to a
studio
and mix, reverb and add other effects, I would go for a MD player
too.
If I were to record that same event and just copy it to the computer
,
do minimal editing such as nomralizing and cutting out bits of the
session etc, then burn a CD, A 320 kbps MP3s would be fine by me:)
CD
Nice debating with you. Some good points said on both sides of the
issue.
All the best!
Brent
Definitely. Good debate. |
All the best to you to!
CD |
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B. Peg
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
I'm slowly working up the ladder since I'm into my 5th player in the past 1
1/2 years (this junk is all obsolete in a year anyhoo, imho, and the
upgrade/replacement/that broke game never seems to stop with this stuff).
Right now the best sound quality is coming off my Archo's AV-420 multimedia
player. I can almost do anything with this player - and have. I've input
bullet helmet video cameras into it and stereo mikes and it works very well
and fits in my larger jacket pocket. It will act as a Tivo and record off
the TV or play into it (remote control included too). Records in DivX
format for video and they just added Mpeg4 via a firmware flash. It accepts
Mp3 Image files which allow you to attach an image to a song and see the
cover art. It will play movies. It has interchangeable batteries as well
so you can slap another in and keep going without docking or charging
downtime. And the thing is dead silent between tracks (unlike another
player I have which will go unnamed as I am fighting with their warranty
service trying to get it fixed). The Archos thing travels on a motorcycle
and hasn't skipped yet as I feared a H-D unit would (and if it ever does,
with my temper, it will be the 3rd-into-a-wall player I've owned). They are
probably the most expensive but they do perform (except their internal 1/2"
speaker sucks as it's so small) and they go up to 80 gigs. Their new
PMP-400 (?) has a touch screen also but now you're looking at $800 or more
and will work with Linux (wonder if this circumvents DRM issues?).
Get some better phones too (i.e. Sensaphonic's Prophonic 2X, Westone's ($800
range), or less expensive Shure E- or Etymotics E-series ~$200 range) if you
want audiophile quality. Phones make a huge difference in any player -
albeit at the risk of uncovering the player's short comings (noise, pops,
lack of bass/treble, distortion, etc).
B~
"C.Reading" <C.Reading.1lk01y@audiobanter.com> wrote in message
news:C.Reading.1lk01y@audiobanter.com...
| Quote: |
Hi,
I am seeking advice about the relative merits of Mini Disc/ Hard Drive
MP3/ Flash Memory MP3 players. Up until about three weeks ago I had
decided to buy a Sony MZNH900 Hi Md Mini Disc player, because the idea
of unlimited expandability afforded by the discs appealed to me. I then
asked my friend, who has thirty-odd years experience in the electronics
industry, what his opinion of Mini Disc players was. Basically he
rubbished them, stating that his son had owned two in a row, both of
which had to be returned due to faulty lasers (he didn't say which
model). He recommended a flash memory MP3 player, citing the lack of
moving parts as a plus point. This seemed very plausible, until I
started looking for a suitable machine. The largest memory player I can
find is a 1 gB Sony unit. This is very small and neat, but I am
concerned that the 45 CD capacity claimed in the blurb may not be
enough (I only started collecting CD's about two or three years ago,
and I have 80 something already - I have always thought that it would
be an advantage to carry my whole collection around - or am I being
over ambitious?). The hard disc units seem a good alternative, but I
have heard horror stories about the dependability of the (very small)
moving parts. I am told that the ubiquitous iPod is the worst offender,
and that the one fact that can be relied on is that it will break.
Can anyone out there help with some solid impartial advice?
Thanks in ancticipation,
Colin Reading.
--
C.Reading |
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The Open Sourceror's Appr
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Which Personal Player Do I Choose? |
|
|
"B. Peg" <bent_peg@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:KSPXd.358750$w62.72849@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
| Quote: | Their new PMP-400 (?) has a touch screen also but now you're looking at
$800 or more and will work with Linux (wonder if this circumvents DRM
issues?).
|
Circumventing DRM doesn't require Linux (although that's a simple way to do
it). Just get a "stream recorder" software package, and re-record the media
while it's playing.
--
Email, Smarthosting, Web hosting for individuals and business:
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
"I ran the Malicious Software Removal Tool, and now all my MS ware is
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