| Author |
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MZ
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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| Quote: | As far as their being a class A or AB amp, well I'm not an electrical
engineer. I'm an audiophile.
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I could have guessed that. :)
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Charley
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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"Scott Gardner" <gardners14@cox.net> wrote in message
news:k1oe11preakfpl1ta4vd4ahu9rbpf6jgi4@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:14:35 GMT, "Charley" <photos@agileemmy.com
wrote:
As far as their being a class A or AB amp, well I'm not an electrical
engineer. I'm an audiophile. When I bought my first 2300, I was led to
believe it was a pure class A amp. Whether it is or not, I still think
they
sound better than anythign I could replace them with.
Well, if you really believe that's true, Richard Clark has a $10,000
check with your name on it. Let us know what you buy with it.
|
I've heard Diamond D7's, Several flavors of Macintosh, EVERYTHING from
Alpine... the list is long but distinguished. Almost everything built today
has a certain harshness to it that I don't really care for. Obviously,
plenty of people out there either don't mind that sound or like it better
than what the older rigs make. That's fine. Doesn't hurt my feelings in
the least. Buy/use what works for you.
I'm not going to argue and say that my amps are somehow inherently better
than something new. There are obviously plenty of people who feel like the
lastest stuff is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm certain that
there are plenty of amps that meter out with better values in some, maybe
even all, areas. One thing I DO know is that a perfect score on the RTA
usually sounds pretty flat. I don't know about you, but I don't listen to
test signals. I listen to MUSIC. My test signal is a high-def recording of
BB King and Eric Clapton playing "Riding with the king".
My system works GREAT for me. It sounds (almost) as good as my home theater
for SOME things. Plus, there's enough power in there that I can drown out
the punk kid in the civic playing the Bass CD with Johnny Cash (yes, I've
done that, too).
| Quote: |
Seriously, I like PPI too, for reasons I've already mentioned. That's
why I have four of them right now.
Scott Gardner
|
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Charley
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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"MZ" <zarellam@removetwcny.rr.comspam> wrote in message
news:EoSdnfvLN7hM8IrfRVn-sw@giganews.com...
| Quote: | As far as their being a class A or AB amp, well I'm not an electrical
engineer. I'm an audiophile.
I could have guessed that. :)
|
Yeah. :)
I had an electrical engineer design the power system that runs my home
theater. Well, ok, he's a good friend of mine, but he IS an EE!
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Scott Gardner
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:32:23 GMT, "Charley" <photos@agileemmy.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Scott Gardner" <gardners14@cox.net> wrote in message
news:k1oe11preakfpl1ta4vd4ahu9rbpf6jgi4@4ax.com...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:14:35 GMT, "Charley" <photos@agileemmy.com
wrote:
As far as their being a class A or AB amp, well I'm not an electrical
engineer. I'm an audiophile. When I bought my first 2300, I was led to
believe it was a pure class A amp. Whether it is or not, I still think
they
sound better than anythign I could replace them with.
Well, if you really believe that's true, Richard Clark has a $10,000
check with your name on it. Let us know what you buy with it.
I've heard Diamond D7's, Several flavors of Macintosh, EVERYTHING from
Alpine... the list is long but distinguished. Almost everything built today
has a certain harshness to it that I don't really care for. Obviously,
plenty of people out there either don't mind that sound or like it better
than what the older rigs make. That's fine. Doesn't hurt my feelings in
the least. Buy/use what works for you.
I'm not going to argue and say that my amps are somehow inherently better
than something new. There are obviously plenty of people who feel like the
lastest stuff is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm certain that
there are plenty of amps that meter out with better values in some, maybe
even all, areas. One thing I DO know is that a perfect score on the RTA
usually sounds pretty flat. I don't know about you, but I don't listen to
test signals. I listen to MUSIC. My test signal is a high-def recording of
BB King and Eric Clapton playing "Riding with the king".
My system works GREAT for me. It sounds (almost) as good as my home theater
for SOME things. Plus, there's enough power in there that I can drown out
the punk kid in the civic playing the Bass CD with Johnny Cash (yes, I've
done that, too).
|
I don't really care about meter values or RTA scores either. I have
enough of an engineering background to understand that 96 dB
signal-to-noise ratio is indistinguishable from 90 dB, or that a
damping factor of 500 isn't really any better than a damping factor of
200.
My reference to Richard Clark was talking about his long-running
"amplifier challenge". Take any two stereo amplifiers, level-match
them to within 0.1 dB so that they're both playing at the same volume,
and then listen to the same music (not test tones) through both amps.
If you can tell which amp is which ten times out of ten, he'll give
you $10,000. As far as I know, no one's been able to do it yet.
There are some other rules - (no signal processing or filters, both
amps must be operating within their design parameters, etcetera), but
no conditions that would put an ureasonable burden on the tester.
There's another audio journalist (or it might have been Clark as well)
that offered a ludicrous amount of money if anyone could tell the
sonic difference between a $1000/foot RCA interconnect and a rusty
nail. I don't think anyone successfully completed that challenge
either.
Scott Gardner |
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NOBASS
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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Scott Gardner Wrote:
| Quote: | I have three older PPI "Art Series" amps right now, an A300.2, and
A600.2, and an A1200.2. There are several reasons I like them, and
keep in mind these are all PERSONAL preferences:
1) I like the way they look. With the Art Series, most people either
loved them or hated them. I loved them when they were new, and still
do.
2) The PPI Art Series amps have earned a reputation for being
accurately rated (conservatively-rated, actually), and for being
solidly-built and reliable.
3) I like that fact that as amplifiers, all they do is amplify. I've
always preferred outboard signal processors for things like
equalization and crossovers. For one, you have greater flexibility
when you divide the functions among several components, and I believe
the quality of the components used in external crossovers and filters
(like Audiocontrol) is probably higher than those built into
amplifiers.
None of this is a knock on modern amps. I know that I could probably
find a reliable amp that I liked the looks of, and I could bypass all
of the built-in signal processors and continue to use my outboard
components. That's why I said these reasons were my own personal
preferences - I'm not trying to change anyone else's mind.
Lastly, you'll notice I didn't say anything about sound quality. I'm
one of those who believe that any two amps will sound the same when
they're delivering the same amount of power, as long as both amps are
operating within their design parameters.
Scott Gardner
|
Agreed with everything you said here Scott. In my case it is the A
series (one before the Art Series), and I'm going back to the
(originally I competed with the first gen Orion HCCAs). Someone els
mention the horrible efficiency of these amps - do amps these day
flash the headlights like the old amps do? :-)
One thing I've noticed (and someone touched on this) is the enormou
power ratings amps have these days. I remember when the PPI 2150AM (
x 150) was one of the most powerful amps you could get without goin
into the dual mono 2200, 2300 or the monster 2350. But now it seem
like most of the new amps out there "should" leave this beauty in th
dust, with ratings in the 500 to 1000 watt range! Do amps these day
actually put out all this power they claim to?
Mar
--
NOBASS |
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Scott Gardner
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:59:01 +0000, NOBASS
<NOBASS.1ktm21@audiobanter.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Scott Gardner Wrote:
I have three older PPI "Art Series" amps right now, an A300.2, and
A600.2, and an A1200.2. There are several reasons I like them, and
keep in mind these are all PERSONAL preferences:
1) I like the way they look. With the Art Series, most people either
loved them or hated them. I loved them when they were new, and still
do.
2) The PPI Art Series amps have earned a reputation for being
accurately rated (conservatively-rated, actually), and for being
solidly-built and reliable.
3) I like that fact that as amplifiers, all they do is amplify. I've
always preferred outboard signal processors for things like
equalization and crossovers. For one, you have greater flexibility
when you divide the functions among several components, and I believe
the quality of the components used in external crossovers and filters
(like Audiocontrol) is probably higher than those built into
amplifiers.
None of this is a knock on modern amps. I know that I could probably
find a reliable amp that I liked the looks of, and I could bypass all
of the built-in signal processors and continue to use my outboard
components. That's why I said these reasons were my own personal
preferences - I'm not trying to change anyone else's mind.
Lastly, you'll notice I didn't say anything about sound quality. I'm
one of those who believe that any two amps will sound the same when
they're delivering the same amount of power, as long as both amps are
operating within their design parameters.
Scott Gardner
Agreed with everything you said here Scott. In my case it is the AM
series (one before the Art Series), and I'm going back to them
(originally I competed with the first gen Orion HCCAs). Someone else
mention the horrible efficiency of these amps - do amps these days
flash the headlights like the old amps do? :-)
One thing I've noticed (and someone touched on this) is the enormous
power ratings amps have these days. I remember when the PPI 2150AM (2
x 150) was one of the most powerful amps you could get without going
into the dual mono 2200, 2300 or the monster 2350. But now it seems
like most of the new amps out there "should" leave this beauty in the
dust, with ratings in the 500 to 1000 watt range! Do amps these days
actually put out all this power they claim to?
Mark
|
I had one of the AM Art Series amps too - the 4100AM 25 Watt X 4.
Great amp. It was on one side of my trunk, and a Linear Power 2202IQ
with red-anodized fins was on the other side.
As for the power ratings on modern amps, there are some
digital-switching amps (often called "Class D" or "Class T") that have
REALLY impressive efficiency numbers, like 80-90%, compared to the 50%
that you're likely to get out of a Class AB amp. I'm sure there are
some out there that claim to put out 1,000 Watts that wouldn't come
close to that unless they were on fire, but there are others that are
honestly putting out a kilowatt-plus, and only drawing about as much
current as an older 600-Watt amp.
Scott Gardner |
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Brian_In_CO
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:17 am Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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You will pry the Linear Power 2202 I bought at an auction five years ag
for $30 from my cold, dead fingers. Made in 1991 and still goin
strong. Still kick myself for selling off the companion Soundstrea
D200 a few years ago when I needed the cash. Price new TO-3 amps thes
days, I'll take a working used Linear Power every time.
Bria
--
Brian_In_C
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Scott Gardner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject:
Re: DISCUSSION TOPIC: Do You Like/Use Old Amps? |
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On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 05:17:15 +0000, Brian_In_CO
<Brian_In_CO.1wxh7c@no-mx.caraudioforum.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
You will pry the Linear Power 2202 I bought at an auction five years ago
for $30 from my cold, dead fingers. Made in 1991 and still going
strong. Still kick myself for selling off the companion Soundstream
D200 a few years ago when I needed the cash. Price new TO-3 amps these
days, I'll take a working used Linear Power every time.
Brian
|
I had a Linear Power 2202IQ also - great amp, very solidly-built, and
I never had a moment's trouble with it.
Right now, I have three of the older PPI "Art Series" amps - an
A300.2, an A600.2, and an A1200.2. I like them because they're very
well-built and I like the way they look.
I also like older amps for a philosophical reason. I want my
amplifiers to do ONE thing - amplify. I don't give a crap if they
have built-in crossovers, "bass-boost" circuitry, or if they can flash
blue lights in time with the music and display my battery voltage.
For equalization and signal processing, I've always preferred separate
processors (usually from AudioControl), so I don't need those features
in my amplifiers. The crossovers and filters in stand-alone
processors are usually of a higher quality and are more flexible than
what you see built-in to amplifiers anyway.
--
Scott Gardner
"After things go from bad to worse, the cycle will repeat itself." |
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