| Author |
Message |
Michelle Cox
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:53 am Post subject:
Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Sorry for the vague topic, but I have a lot of different questions and
didn't want to flood the newsgroup with posts. I've been doing as much
research on my own as I can, but I keep getting stuck. Too many things I
Google on just bring up page after page of people selling products and not
the info I'm looking for. So I'd appreciate any pointers in the right
direction.
1) Shooting the video
I'm not looking to become a professional filmmaker, but I would like to be
able to make home movies that won't make people groan when I pull them out.
:) I checked out some books from the library that give pointers on
filmmaking, but they're all from the '80s or older. While much of it is
still useful, I'd love to find some modern sources as well. Websites would
be especially helpful, but I'm open to buying a couple of books if there's
some really good ones out there.
2) Workflow
I have a lot of footage that I shot last Christmas when I got my camcorder
that I'm finally getting around to doing something with. When I initially
jumped in, I just captured the entire tape and worked off that in MM2. But
then I started thinking about how I'm going to archive this and it seems to
make more sense to archive only the footage that I want to keep and in
logical groupings, not just whatever happened to land on the same tape. But
if I split it up now to archive it, the MM2 project will become invalid
should I ever want to use it again. Since I've moved on from MM2, it's a
moot point on stuff I've already done, but I'd like to do things right in
the future. So I'm wondering how others do it? Do you bring in the
footage, delete the crap, and break it up into logical groupings, and
archive that before doing any sort of movie making on it? That's what I was
thinking would be the best plan, but I'd like to hear from people with
experience on that.
3) Editing the video
I started out using Movie Maker which is a nice program but a bit limiting
in what you can do. Since then I've been looking to see what else I can get
for the under $100 range. Pinnacle 9 looked good but I found I didn't like
it much when I ran the trial. Then I downloaded the trial of Sony Vegas
Movie Studio (Used to be Screenblast, I guess) and really liked it. For the
most part, it's pretty intuitive but there's some things I'm not quite
getting and don't know where to turn for help. Movie Maker has its own
newsgroup and Papa John's wonderful pages but I can find nothing similar for
SVMS. The couple of forums I found were really inactive. Anyone know of
any good websites / forums for this software?
Also, today I came across a link to Video Explosion Deluxe
(http://www.novadevelopment.com/products/productinfo.aspx?productcode=vew)
which looks identical to SVMS in interface (a review said they use the same
technology) but comes with more effects and is a bit cheaper. I haven't
been able to find anything that does a feature comparison between the two.
Is there any disadvantage to getting VED over SVMS? Seems like you get more
for less, which always makes me wonder what the catch is. :) Unfortunately,
it doesn't seem possible to get a trial of VED or I'd just try it out for
myself.
4) Archiving and outputting movies
All the posts I've found say it's best to archive in the original DV format.
But this only fits 20 minutes on a DVD. 3 DVDs are cheaper than one DV
tape, but more hassle. Since a lot of the posts that are coming up are
older, I'm wondering if there's anything new on this? Any new
recommendations for fitting an hour of video on a DVD and still have it good
for editing? Or is keeping it in DV still the recommended practice?
As far as making the DVDs, SVMS comes with DVD Architect and VED comes with
MyDVD. Are these ok for making home movies? I'm not expecting professional
quality results with bundled software but I also don't want to spend hours
making a movie only to burn it with something that will do a horrible job at
compression and make the whole thing look crappy.
Ok, I think I'm done with my book. :) I'd love to hear about any resources
for beginners you have, even if it doesn't specifically answer one of these
questions. I may only be making home video, but I want to do the best job I
can within my budget, so I'm willing to do lots of reading on the subject.
I just need some help finding the nuggets of information under the sea of
ads that come up whenever I Google a question.
Thanks,
Michelle
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 |
Kevin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:59 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Hi Michelle! I used to be a regular here (more or less) but I've mostly been
lurking lately, but I'll give you what insights I do have...
| Quote: | 1) Shooting the video
I'm not looking to become a professional filmmaker, but I would like to be
able to make home movies that won't make people groan when I pull them out.
:) I checked out some books from the library that give pointers on
filmmaking, but they're all from the '80s or older. While much of it is
still useful, I'd love to find some modern sources as well. Websites would
be especially helpful, but I'm open to buying a couple of books if there's
some really good ones out there.
|
Websites and books are always a good resource, but I think a lot of it just
comes with practice too. You should ask yourself, when playing back your
footage, WHY would people groan when watching this? I bet you can narrow
it down to a few things like:
-shots way too LOOOONG and boring, or conversely too short and choppy
-shaky shots (very obvious to detect.. where's the dramamine??)
-overuse of the zoom lens
-little or no thought to composition, or "firehosing" everything in sight
-too dark, too light, too quiet, too noisy, ...
My personal pet peeve is people who talk too much from behind the viewfinder.
Your voice sounds very unnatural compared to everyone else, and usually
people who do that make lame jokes or tell their kids to do cute things or
whatever. It's my personal opinion that if you're behind the camera, then
as far as what I see in the video, you don't exist. That's the way it should
be. If you want to be in the video, use a tripod or get someone else to tape
for a while.
Actually that's probably a philosophy that would help you get better shots.
"You don't exist." Tape in such a way to be unobtrusive, so that when I
watch your tape, I see the birthday party or vacation but am not aware of the
person behind the camera. Shaky shots, overuse of zoom, stuff like that, all
jar me out of the "story" and remind me that someone was operating the camera.
I also like to watch TV or movies with an eye for new and interesting camera
angles and stuff like that.
| Quote: | the future. So I'm wondering how others do it? Do you bring in the
footage, delete the crap, and break it up into logical groupings, and
archive that before doing any sort of movie making on it? That's what I was
thinking would be the best plan, but I'd like to hear from people with
experience on that.
|
I bring it in, split it out into individual video files for scenes (using
tools like Scenalyzer, or iMovie on the Mac) and delete the junk. Then,
yes, I will think about moving the remaining files into separate folders
for different types of shots (lake shots, food shots, people shots, etc.)
| Quote: | 3) Editing the video
|
I think if you're serious about this (even as a serious hobby) you want to
look into a good editor like Premiere (Elements?) or Media Studio Pro or
Vegas Video. Pinnacle is quite decent too. I would personally stay away
from the "no name" video editors.
| Quote: | 4) Archiving and outputting movies
All the posts I've found say it's best to archive in the original DV format.
But this only fits 20 minutes on a DVD. 3 DVDs are cheaper than one DV
tape, but more hassle. Since a lot of the posts that are coming up are
older, I'm wondering if there's anything new on this? Any new
recommendations for fitting an hour of video on a DVD and still have it good
for editing? Or is keeping it in DV still the recommended practice?
|
I keep all my DV tape originals in a drawer. The finished, edited videos
I burn onto a DVD and also archive onto another DV tape.
| Quote: | As far as making the DVDs, SVMS comes with DVD Architect and VED comes with
MyDVD. Are these ok for making home movies? I'm not expecting professional
quality results with bundled software but I also don't want to spend hours
making a movie only to burn it with something that will do a horrible job at
compression and make the whole thing look crappy.
|
This won't help you in the slightest, but I should point out that after a
number of years of working with Media Studio Pro on my Windows machines (and
the DVD MovieFactory software that it comes with) I have since switched to
Apple, running on a Powerbook with Final Cut Express and iDVD. I must say
that iDVD makes the nicest looking DVDs (with motion menus, etc.) I've seen
out of Pinnacle, Ulead, etc.
Hope that helps and/or inspires..
Kevin |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:02 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Michelle Cox <mcox@charter.net> wrote:
: I'm not looking to become a professional filmmaker, but I would like to be
: able to make home movies that won't make people groan when I pull them out.
I can offer some observations here. Both of my grandfathers took lots of
home movies back in the 1940s and 1950s, which I now have. One, who I'll
call Grandfather "A", took movies that we all love to watch, and the other,
who I'll call Grandfather "B", took movies that we all, as you say, groan
at the thought of watching.
The difference was simple. Grandfather "A" took movies of him and his family
members doing ordinary, daily activities. The kids skating down the street,
mom cooking dinner, him washing his bread truck, that sort of thing. They
are now fascinating and nostalgic images of the past the everyone loves
to remember. Grandfather "B" took pictures of the ocean, long scans of
trees, vacation pictures, hours of pictures of the grand canyon, etc.
Basically, "B" took pictures that nobody cares about because, while they
might have seemed significant at the time, have nothing to do with our
family... another bad picture of the grand canyon, or yet another long
scan of the lake, just isn't worth watching. But seeing the front yard
before the trees got big, or grandma using the old washing machine, or
the kids fighting over the hose, just gets more fun to watch every year.
I learned a lot just comparing the two sets of films. Ironically,
grandfather "B" was highly educated, and grandfather "A" drove a bread
truck. Yet "A" had a natural insight into what was worth capturing and
what was not. The secret was capturing peoples' ordinary lives.
Scott |
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Peter O Sjostrand
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Michelle,
First I think that Kevin and sgordon gave you some excellent comments.
I may have some additional comments further down inside your post:
"Michelle Cox" <mcox@charter.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:10p2bio9rer8t69@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | Sorry for the vague topic, but I have a lot of different questions and
didn't want to flood the newsgroup with posts. I've been doing as much
research on my own as I can, but I keep getting stuck. Too many things I
Google on just bring up page after page of people selling products and not
the info I'm looking for. So I'd appreciate any pointers in the right
direction.
First I usually decide on which kind of viewers I am aiming at. You cannot |
satisfy all and if you aime at everybody most viewers will be bored. You
have to make a choice here.
| Quote: | 1) Shooting the video
I'm not looking to become a professional filmmaker, but I would like to be
able to make home movies that won't make people groan when I pull them
out.
:) I checked out some books from the library that give pointers on
filmmaking, but they're all from the '80s or older. While much of it is
still useful, I'd love to find some modern sources as well. Websites
would
be especially helpful, but I'm open to buying a couple of books if there's
some really good ones out there.
|
A tripod and avoiding zooming all the time are of major importance! Stop
recording, use the zoom and then start recording again. There are exceptions
from this though but not so often.
Shooting scenes long enough too make editing easier is also essential. You
need several seconds on each side for editing. However, it is essential that
the edited scene length is just long enough to keep viewer interest.
Also - when shooting - never stop recording when there is some essential
sound. It could for instance be a break in somebodys comment. You may want
to use this audio track while using several adequate video clips along with
it.
| Quote: | 2) Workflow
I have a lot of footage that I shot last Christmas when I got my camcorder
that I'm finally getting around to doing something with. When I initially
jumped in, I just captured the entire tape and worked off that in MM2.
But
then I started thinking about how I'm going to archive this and it seems
to
make more sense to archive only the footage that I want to keep and in
logical groupings, not just whatever happened to land on the same tape.
But
if I split it up now to archive it, the MM2 project will become invalid
should I ever want to use it again. Since I've moved on from MM2, it's a
moot point on stuff I've already done, but I'd like to do things right in
the future. So I'm wondering how others do it? Do you bring in the
footage, delete the crap, and break it up into logical groupings, and
archive that before doing any sort of movie making on it? That's what I
was
thinking would be the best plan, but I'd like to hear from people with
experience on that.
|
I normally capture all my source clips for the current project. Takes a lot
of disk space. (Have 700 Gb for that)
| Quote: | 3) Editing the video
I started out using Movie Maker which is a nice program but a bit limiting
in what you can do. Since then I've been looking to see what else I can
get
for the under $100 range. Pinnacle 9 looked good but I found I didn't
like
it much when I ran the trial. Then I downloaded the trial of Sony Vegas
Movie Studio (Used to be Screenblast, I guess) and really liked it. For
the
most part, it's pretty intuitive but there's some things I'm not quite
getting and don't know where to turn for help. Movie Maker has its own
newsgroup and Papa John's wonderful pages but I can find nothing similar
for
SVMS. The couple of forums I found were really inactive. Anyone know of
any good websites / forums for this software?
Also, today I came across a link to Video Explosion Deluxe
(http://www.novadevelopment.com/products/productinfo.aspx?productcode=vew)
which looks identical to SVMS in interface (a review said they use the
same
technology) but comes with more effects and is a bit cheaper. I haven't
been able to find anything that does a feature comparison between the two.
Is there any disadvantage to getting VED over SVMS? Seems like you get
more
for less, which always makes me wonder what the catch is. :)
Unfortunately,
it doesn't seem possible to get a trial of VED or I'd just try it out for
myself.
I use Canopus Edius and Adobe Premiere Pro (started with Premiere 4.2). Both |
editors are highly competent. I prefer Edius but then it is preferable to
use Canopus hardware as well. This gives a significant boost to RT.
Edius is very stable and Premiere Pro (a completely rewritten version of the
previous versions 6.5) is also fairly stable. Earlier versions than Premiere
Pro had stability problems.
My DVD is ok for making a DVD but does not allow much authoring. Adobe
Encore is my favorite but there are other competent authoring programs.
| Quote: | 4) Archiving and outputting movies
All the posts I've found say it's best to archive in the original DV
format.
But this only fits 20 minutes on a DVD. 3 DVDs are cheaper than one DV
tape, but more hassle. Since a lot of the posts that are coming up are
older, I'm wondering if there's anything new on this? Any new
recommendations for fitting an hour of video on a DVD and still have it
good
for editing? Or is keeping it in DV still the recommended practice?
As far as making the DVDs, SVMS comes with DVD Architect and VED comes
with
MyDVD. Are these ok for making home movies? I'm not expecting
professional
quality results with bundled software but I also don't want to spend hours
making a movie only to burn it with something that will do a horrible job
at
compression and make the whole thing look crappy.
Ok, I think I'm done with my book. :) I'd love to hear about any
resources
for beginners you have, even if it doesn't specifically answer one of
these
questions. I may only be making home video, but I want to do the best job
I
can within my budget, so I'm willing to do lots of reading on the subject.
I just need some help finding the nuggets of information under the sea of
ads that come up whenever I Google a question.
I keep my source material on DV cassettes. Also I keep my movies on DV |
cassettes as masters.
I also keep track of all my source clips in Excel where each cassette is
numbered and each clip is noted with its timecode. It takes a while to
organize this but you only do it once and it certainly helps when searching
for a source clip in the furture. I keep most of my recorded video - you
never know what demand might pop up some time in the future.
Finally, I think Videomaker might be a good source for tips about making
home videos. They have monthly views on various aspects of making video
movies as well as reviews of new equipment in this field.
Good Luck!
Peter
Skanor, Sweden |
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Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
"Kevin" <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmrejn$cm1$4@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...
| Quote: | Hi Michelle! I used to be a regular here (more or less) but I've mostly
been
lurking lately, but I'll give you what insights I do have...
|
Thanks :)
| Quote: | Websites and books are always a good resource, but I think a lot of it
just
comes with practice too. You should ask yourself, when playing back your
footage, WHY would people groan when watching this? I bet you can narrow
it down to a few things like:
-shots way too LOOOONG and boring, or conversely too short and choppy
-shaky shots (very obvious to detect.. where's the dramamine??)
-overuse of the zoom lens
-little or no thought to composition, or "firehosing" everything in sight
-too dark, too light, too quiet, too noisy, ...
|
Hehe... I've found those out already with just the little bit of shooting
I've done. Especially the shakey part. Walking and taping is bad, very
bad. :) What I'm looking for is more tips on how to tell a story with the
video. Not totally scripted movie type stuff because this is just video of
family, but I still would like it to be interesting. The book I got at the
library talks about setting the scene with using a long shot, then a medium
shot, then a close up and things like that.
| Quote: | My personal pet peeve is people who talk too much from behind the
viewfinder.
Your voice sounds very unnatural compared to everyone else, and usually
people who do that make lame jokes or tell their kids to do cute things or
whatever. It's my personal opinion that if you're behind the camera, then
as far as what I see in the video, you don't exist. That's the way it
should
be. If you want to be in the video, use a tripod or get someone else to
tape
for a while.
|
Yeah, found that one out, too. I've been editing some footage I shot of my
grandfather discussing his carvings. He's good at talking without prompting,
so there's not a _lot_ of me, but every once and a while I make a "yes I'm
listening" type of noise and it's really loud. I've been trying to edit
those out as much as I can.
| Quote: | I also like to watch TV or movies with an eye for new and interesting
camera
angles and stuff like that.
|
That's a good idea.
| Quote: | I bring it in, split it out into individual video files for scenes (using
tools like Scenalyzer, or iMovie on the Mac) and delete the junk. Then,
yes, I will think about moving the remaining files into separate folders
for different types of shots (lake shots, food shots, people shots, etc.)
|
That Sceneanalyzer looks interesting, but I I still need to buy an NLE
program, so extra programs aren't in the budget right now. I found a
freeware program called WinDV that does a pretty good job of chopping things
up using time stamps, though.
| Quote: | I think if you're serious about this (even as a serious hobby) you want to
look into a good editor like Premiere (Elements?) or Media Studio Pro or
Vegas Video. Pinnacle is quite decent too. I would personally stay away
from the "no name" video editors.
|
Unfortunately, those aren't in my budget right now. I need something less
than $100. Sony's Vegas Movie Studio is at the top of my list and I'm using
the trial right now. It seems like a pretty capable program for the beginer
and I can always move to Vegas Video in the future if finances allow.
| Quote: | I keep all my DV tape originals in a drawer. The finished, edited videos
I burn onto a DVD and also archive onto another DV tape.
|
With DV tapes running $5 each and only holding an hour, I'm thinking only
stuff that I absolutely can't lose is going to go back onto tape. The rest
is going to be on DVD and I'll just have to hope for the best.
| Quote: | This won't help you in the slightest, but I should point out that after a
number of years of working with Media Studio Pro on my Windows machines
(and
the DVD MovieFactory software that it comes with) I have since switched to
Apple, running on a Powerbook with Final Cut Express and iDVD. I must say
that iDVD makes the nicest looking DVDs (with motion menus, etc.) I've
seen
out of Pinnacle, Ulead, etc.
|
Yeah, buying a Mac isn't an option for me. :) They've got some wonderful
stuff for video and photos, but buying a new computer is _definitely_ not in
the budget right now. LOL!
| Quote: | Hope that helps and/or inspires..
|
It does. Thank you.
Michelle |
|
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|
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Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
<sgordon@changethisparttohardbat.com> wrote in message
news:kkckd.4365$_3.52968@typhoon.sonic.net...
| Quote: | The difference was simple. Grandfather "A" took movies of him and his
family
members doing ordinary, daily activities. The kids skating down the
street,
mom cooking dinner, him washing his bread truck, that sort of thing. They
are now fascinating and nostalgic images of the past the everyone loves
to remember. Grandfather "B" took pictures of the ocean, long scans of
trees, vacation pictures, hours of pictures of the grand canyon, etc.
Basically, "B" took pictures that nobody cares about because, while they
might have seemed significant at the time, have nothing to do with our
family... another bad picture of the grand canyon, or yet another long
scan of the lake, just isn't worth watching. But seeing the front yard
before the trees got big, or grandma using the old washing machine, or
the kids fighting over the hose, just gets more fun to watch every year.
|
The one advantage of shooting landscapes is they don't run and hide from the
camcorder. :) Seriously, though, I know what you mean. I look back at old
photos I've taken and the insane amount of scenic ones are all boring and I
wonder why I kept them. This was before I got into photography as a hobby,
so not only are they boring, they aren't even good scenics. LOL! The ones
with people, no matter how badly composed, exposed, etc, are much more
precious. Good thing to remember now that I've embarked on video. Thanks
for the reminder.
Michelle |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
"Peter O Sjostrand" <po.sjostrand@telia.com> wrote in message
news:Hukkd.121478$dP1.416279@newsc.telia.net...
| Quote: | First I think that Kevin and sgordon gave you some excellent comments.
|
Yes, they were quite helpful.
| Quote: | First I usually decide on which kind of viewers I am aiming at. You cannot
satisfy all and if you aime at everybody most viewers will be bored. You
have to make a choice here.
|
Well, the viewers will be family. I'm strictly doing home movies, not
trying to make amateur films or anything like that. I just want to make
_good_ home movies. :)
| Quote: | A tripod and avoiding zooming all the time are of major importance! Stop
recording, use the zoom and then start recording again. There are
exceptions
from this though but not so often.
|
Yeah, I discovered shaky and too zoomy video the first time I looked at my
footage and quickly put a stop to that. :)
| Quote: | Shooting scenes long enough too make editing easier is also essential. You
need several seconds on each side for editing. However, it is essential
that
the edited scene length is just long enough to keep viewer interest.
|
This is the sort of thing I'm not too sure about. How long is too long?
When I'm looking at the video over and over working on editing it, I'm
already bored with it. So it's hard to judge. Do you find you get better at
judging with practice, or is it better to call someone over to watch it and
ask what they think?
| Quote: | Also - when shooting - never stop recording when there is some essential
sound. It could for instance be a break in somebodys comment. You may want
to use this audio track while using several adequate video clips along
with
it.
|
This is one of the biggies I need help on. I often have interesting audio
paired with bad video and vice versa. I'm not very clear on how to go about
the editing process so that everything is mixed together nicely like you see
in, for example, a news program. Any suggestions on where I could go to get
some tips on this?
| Quote: | I normally capture all my source clips for the current project. Takes a
lot
of disk space. (Have 700 Gb for that)
|
Yikes, that's quite a bit. Nearly to a terabyte there. LOL! I've got about
150GB for video editing, so I have to shuffle stuff around more.
| Quote: | I use Canopus Edius and Adobe Premiere Pro (started with Premiere 4.2).
Both
editors are highly competent. I prefer Edius but then it is preferable to
use Canopus hardware as well. This gives a significant boost to RT.
Edius is very stable and Premiere Pro (a completely rewritten version of
the
previous versions 6.5) is also fairly stable. Earlier versions than
Premiere
Pro had stability problems.
|
Those are out of my budget, unfortunately. It's looking like Sony Vegas
Movie Studio is what I'll go with unless I can find out more about Video
Explosion.
| Quote: | My DVD is ok for making a DVD but does not allow much authoring. Adobe
Encore is my favorite but there are other competent authoring programs.
|
I'm still not clear on all the terminology. What is it lacking with
"authoring"? Is that where you build the menus? If so, I'm not too worried
about that. I don't need really fancy menus for home video. I've played
around a bit with the software that came with my burner (Easy Media Creator)
and it does a good enough job of that for my needs. So if MyDVD is worse, I
can always fall back to that.
| Quote: | Finally, I think Videomaker might be a good source for tips about making
home videos. They have monthly views on various aspects of making video
movies as well as reviews of new equipment in this field.
|
I found their website. Looks interesting.
Thanks!
Michelle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Michelle Cox <mcox@charter.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I also like to watch TV or movies with an eye for new and interesting
camera
angles and stuff like that.
That's a good idea.
|
I like reality-TV style (not much for the content, though) and I like watching
documentaries like the civil-war shows they always have on PBS. They give me
ideas for what types of shots to include when I'm out taping on vacation or
whatever.
| Quote: | That Sceneanalyzer looks interesting, but I I still need to buy an NLE
program, so extra programs aren't in the budget right now. I found a
freeware program called WinDV that does a pretty good job of chopping things
up using time stamps, though.
|
Sounds good. Scenalyzer was only $33 when I bought it, and it had so many
darned good uses that I still consider it the best $33 I ever spent on video
editing software. It was a capture program, a time-lapse capture program
(lock down the camera on the front dash of your car and go for a long drive
on a long stretch of highway, and then capture it at 50x the original speed...
what a rush!), a scene splitter, a scene previewer (to choose what to keep
and what to trash), and a playback utility for exporting my finished,
rendered DV file back out to tape.
When I first started, my computer was evidently marginal for real-time
video capture, and I found that there would be glitches in my video output
when I played back the video from Pinnacle or from Media Studio Pro. With
SCLive, though, there was never any glitch, so this soon became my default
workflow.
| Quote: | I think if you're serious about this (even as a serious hobby) you want to
look into a good editor like Premiere (Elements?) or Media Studio Pro or
Vegas Video. Pinnacle is quite decent too. I would personally stay away
from the "no name" video editors.
Unfortunately, those aren't in my budget right now. I need something less
than $100. Sony's Vegas Movie Studio is at the top of my list and I'm using
the trial right now. It seems like a pretty capable program for the beginer
and I can always move to Vegas Video in the future if finances allow.
|
Not even Pinnacle Studio? I recall buying the "Studio DV" package which
came with a firewire card as well as the Studio software for less than $99.
Things may well be different now though.
Oh well. Use what you like, as long as it works. My only concern would be
(and maybe this doesn't bother you at all) that in a few years if those
programs become defunct, or when you do move on to a "pro" NLE, will you
still be able to access your old projects if you ever need to?
| Quote: | With DV tapes running $5 each and only holding an hour, I'm thinking only
stuff that I absolutely can't lose is going to go back onto tape. The rest
is going to be on DVD and I'll just have to hope for the best.
|
I can understand that. In that case, DVD might well be your best bet,
especially now with dual-layer burners and discs that will hold almost 9 gigs
available. I think those discs are still too expensive, but like DVD-R's did
they will drop in price rapidly.
You might consider buying your DV tapes in bulk from places like
www.taperesources.com, I think they'll work out to quite a bit less than
$5 each.
| Quote: | Yeah, buying a Mac isn't an option for me. :) They've got some wonderful
stuff for video and photos, but buying a new computer is _definitely_ not in
the budget right now. LOL!
|
Hey, you never know. If you'd asked me a year ago if I'd ever consider
giving up Windows to be on a Mac, I'd probably laugh in your face. But here
I am... and I'm loving it. :)
Anyway. Good luck.. and be careful, this hobby will draw you in, until
soon you're wanting to buy a nicer video camera, maybe even a second camera,
and then a nicer computer and nicer software and maybe a nicer tripod and
microphone and..... |
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Kevin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Michelle Cox <mcox@charter.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Shooting scenes long enough too make editing easier is also essential. You
need several seconds on each side for editing. However, it is essential
that
the edited scene length is just long enough to keep viewer interest.
This is the sort of thing I'm not too sure about. How long is too long?
When I'm looking at the video over and over working on editing it, I'm
already bored with it. So it's hard to judge. Do you find you get better at
judging with practice, or is it better to call someone over to watch it and
ask what they think?
|
I would say, yeah, ask for others' opinions. You're right, you do get bored
with your own stuff. It gets tricky too as you're building up a video
that's more than several minutes long. More than once I've started a video,
used what I thought were a good clip length, and then, 5 or 6 minutes into
the video, I decide to play back everything I have so far, and.. WHOA! Boring!
Or maybe things started off too slow at the beginning and started to speed
up.
What I do a lot is edit to music. When I think about a video I think of the
type of music I want to be underlaying it. Sometimes I will hear songs
on radio or CD and the music will evoke scenes in my head. That will even
help me to know what sort of scenes to shoot. And then when editing, the
music will tell you how long a shot should be, and whether there should be
a nice slow fade between shots, or not. Stuff like that.
For personal use only, you can use any songs you want.. if you intend to
give them away, that's a whole new world of royalty free stock music, etc.
But when recording -- always err on the side of too long. You can always
chop out bits later.
| Quote: | This is one of the biggies I need help on. I often have interesting audio
paired with bad video and vice versa. I'm not very clear on how to go about
the editing process so that everything is mixed together nicely like you see
in, for example, a news program. Any suggestions on where I could go to get
some tips on this?
|
You'll want a video editor capable of doing more than just splicing clips
from end-to-end. The news videos and such make liberal use of edits in which
the video is coming from one clip and the audio from another. There are lots
of names for these sorts of edits -- insert edits, playing "B-roll", L-cuts
and J-cuts, audio-leads-video and so on.
I won't try to go into details -- someone else can, or you can read up on
it in books or on the web -- but I think this is a subtle but powerful way
to make your videos look nicer and have a polish to them.
| Quote: | I normally capture all my source clips for the current project. Takes a
lot
of disk space. (Have 700 Gb for that)
Yikes, that's quite a bit. Nearly to a terabyte there. LOL! I've got about
150GB for video editing, so I have to shuffle stuff around more.
|
Whaaaaa? My first machine had 20 gigs for video storage, which I quickly
upgraded to 60... then I started editing on laptops with 40 gig drives,
including this Powerbook I'm typing on now... only last month did I finally
give in and buy a new 160 gig drive.
So don't feel bad ;)
| Quote: | Finally, I think Videomaker might be a good source for tips about making
home videos. They have monthly views on various aspects of making video
movies as well as reviews of new equipment in this field.
I found their website. Looks interesting.
|
Yes, they have lots of great tips in their magazine, about lighting, editing,
sound, and so on. I find that things start to repeat themselves after a
while (how many articles do I really need telling me how to do a 3-point
lighting setup for an interview?) so I would suggest that a one-year
subscription will probably cover all the bases :)
Good luck! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
"Kevin" <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmtk8h$a5s$3@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...
| Quote: | I like reality-TV style (not much for the content, though) and I like
watching
documentaries like the civil-war shows they always have on PBS. They give
me
ideas for what types of shots to include when I'm out taping on vacation
or
whatever.
|
Hmm... A reason to watch reality TV... Never occured to me that it could be
useful for something. ;)
| Quote: | Sounds good. Scenalyzer was only $33 when I bought it, and it had so many
darned good uses that I still consider it the best $33 I ever spent on
video
editing software. It was a capture program, a time-lapse capture program
(lock down the camera on the front dash of your car and go for a long
drive
on a long stretch of highway, and then capture it at 50x the original
speed...
what a rush!), a scene splitter, a scene previewer (to choose what to keep
and what to trash), and a playback utility for exporting my finished,
rendered DV file back out to tape.
|
It does sound like a useful program. I'll put it on my wish list.
| Quote: | When I first started, my computer was evidently marginal for real-time
video capture, and I found that there would be glitches in my video output
when I played back the video from Pinnacle or from Media Studio Pro. With
SCLive, though, there was never any glitch, so this soon became my default
workflow.
|
I've got a P4 2.26, which seems to do fine on the capturing end of things.
My 512MB of memory really bogs down at times, though. Unfortunately, Rambus
is so damn expensive it's cheaper for me to upgrade my mobo than to add more
memory to it.
| Quote: | Not even Pinnacle Studio? I recall buying the "Studio DV" package which
came with a firewire card as well as the Studio software for less than
$99.
Things may well be different now though.
|
I tried Pinnacle Studio's trial and didn't care for it. I've also seen a lot
of posts of people complaining about it.
| Quote: | Oh well. Use what you like, as long as it works. My only concern would
be
(and maybe this doesn't bother you at all) that in a few years if those
programs become defunct, or when you do move on to a "pro" NLE, will you
still be able to access your old projects if you ever need to?
|
Well, Vegas Movie Studio is just a light version of Vegas Video, so I'm not
too worried about it becoming defunct and I certainly hope they have a
project upgrade path. That's something I need to look into, but they're
stupid if they don't.
| Quote: | I can understand that. In that case, DVD might well be your best bet,
especially now with dual-layer burners and discs that will hold almost 9
gigs
available. I think those discs are still too expensive, but like DVD-R's
did
they will drop in price rapidly.
|
Yeah, dual layer disks are still around $10 each. Hopefully they'll drop
soon. I got a dual layer burner so I can use them when the prices are
reasonable.
| Quote: | You might consider buying your DV tapes in bulk from places like
www.taperesources.com, I think they'll work out to quite a bit less than
$5 each.
|
I'll check that out. Thanks.
| Quote: | Hey, you never know. If you'd asked me a year ago if I'd ever consider
giving up Windows to be on a Mac, I'd probably laugh in your face. But
here
I am... and I'm loving it. :)
|
If you'd asked me a year ago if I'd consider a Mac, I'd have said hell no.
Now my answer is sure, but I can't afford it. I wouldn't give up Windows...
I'd just run one of each. Mac's are really nice for photo and video work,
but there's stuff I like about PCs as well.
| Quote: | Anyway. Good luck.. and be careful, this hobby will draw you in, until
soon you're wanting to buy a nicer video camera, maybe even a second
camera,
and then a nicer computer and nicer software and maybe a nicer tripod and
microphone and.....
|
Hehe. I can't afford to be putting too much money into video. My first
love is still photography and that's where my spare cash goes. Video is
strictly a family history / memories recording method for me. I'm just
trying to get the basics that I need to make family videos that people won't
dread watching. If I can do that, I'll be happy.
Thanks,
Michelle |
|
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|
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Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:01 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
"Kevin" <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmtkso$a5s$4@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...
| Quote: | I would say, yeah, ask for others' opinions. You're right, you do get
bored
with your own stuff. It gets tricky too as you're building up a video
that's more than several minutes long. More than once I've started a
video,
used what I thought were a good clip length, and then, 5 or 6 minutes into
the video, I decide to play back everything I have so far, and.. WHOA!
Boring!
Or maybe things started off too slow at the beginning and started to speed
up.
|
Hmmm... Gonna have to volunteer my hubby, I guess :)
| Quote: | What I do a lot is edit to music. When I think about a video I think of
the
type of music I want to be underlaying it. Sometimes I will hear songs
on radio or CD and the music will evoke scenes in my head. That will even
help me to know what sort of scenes to shoot. And then when editing, the
music will tell you how long a shot should be, and whether there should be
a nice slow fade between shots, or not. Stuff like that.
For personal use only, you can use any songs you want.. if you intend to
give them away, that's a whole new world of royalty free stock music, etc.
|
Yeah, I'm trying to avoid using music in these. I don't plan on having them
go outside the family, especially since I can't see anyone outside the
family being interested in our home movies. :) But I'd rather not lock
myself into something with copyrighted material on it, just in case.
| Quote: | But when recording -- always err on the side of too long. You can always
chop out bits later.
|
Heh... I think I have the too long bit covered. *Eyes hour long tape of
brother in law learning to ski*
| Quote: | You'll want a video editor capable of doing more than just splicing clips
from end-to-end. The news videos and such make liberal use of edits in
which
the video is coming from one clip and the audio from another. There are
lots
of names for these sorts of edits -- insert edits, playing "B-roll",
L-cuts
and J-cuts, audio-leads-video and so on.
|
Vegas MS has three audio tracks to put stuff on, so it should be able to
handle it. I just need to figure out the best way of doing it. It's not so
much the technical end I need help with as the more creative composition
end.
| Quote: | I won't try to go into details -- someone else can, or you can read up on
it in books or on the web -- but I think this is a subtle but powerful way
to make your videos look nicer and have a polish to them.
|
Any place in particular on the web? That's what I've been trying to get
info on. I don't expect anyone to explain composition and editing to me in
a post. I was trying to get people to point me to websites for that since I
was having no luck on Google.
| Quote: | Whaaaaa? My first machine had 20 gigs for video storage, which I quickly
upgraded to 60... then I started editing on laptops with 40 gig drives,
including this Powerbook I'm typing on now... only last month did I
finally
give in and buy a new 160 gig drive.
|
I can't imagine doing this on 20GB... One DV tape is 13GB right there!
| Quote: | Yes, they have lots of great tips in their magazine, about lighting,
editing,
sound, and so on. I find that things start to repeat themselves after a
while (how many articles do I really need telling me how to do a 3-point
lighting setup for an interview?) so I would suggest that a one-year
subscription will probably cover all the bases :)
|
I'll check first if the library has it.
Thanks,
Michelle |
|
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|
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Mike Kujbida
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
Michelle Cox wrote:
| Quote: | snip
Well, Vegas Movie Studio is just a light version of Vegas Video, so
I'm not too worried about it becoming defunct and I certainly hope
they have a project upgrade path. That's something I need to look
into, but they're stupid if they don't.
|
Don't worry. Sony's not stupid. There is an upgrade path.
From http://tinyurl.com/3wd64
Upgrade Vegas Movie Studio+DVD to Vegas 5 – $399.95
Upgrade any version of Vegas Movie Studio+DVD, Screenblast Movie Studio, or
VideoFactory software to Vegas software.
Upgrade Vegas Movie Studio+DVD to Vegas+DVD – $599.95
Upgrade any version of Vegas Movie Studio+DVD, Screenblast Movie Studio or
VideoFactory software to Vegas+DVD software.
BTW, there's a Movie Studio forum on the Sony site at
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowTopics.asp?ForumID=12
Mike |
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Mike Kujbida
Guest
|
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| Back to top |
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Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
I bookmarked the lot of them and am checking them out. Thanks much!
Michelle
"Mike Kujbida" <kujfam-misleadingspam@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:2vfrk7F2k3a0cU1@uni-berlin.de...
|
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| Back to top |
|
|
Michelle Cox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Need help getting started with making home movies |
|
|
"Mike Kujbida" <kujfam-misleadingspam@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:2vfqeuF2l9olgU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Don't worry. Sony's not stupid. There is an upgrade path.
From http://tinyurl.com/3wd64
Upgrade Vegas Movie Studio+DVD to Vegas 5 – $399.95
Upgrade any version of Vegas Movie Studio+DVD, Screenblast Movie Studio,
or
VideoFactory software to Vegas software.
Upgrade Vegas Movie Studio+DVD to Vegas+DVD – $599.95
Upgrade any version of Vegas Movie Studio+DVD, Screenblast Movie Studio or
VideoFactory software to Vegas+DVD software.
|
Actually, I was meaning upgrading the projects themselves to the full
version of the software, but this is good to know, too. I'm currently
debating between Sony Vegas Movie Studio and Adobe Premiere Elements. From
what I'm hearing, with Adobe the projects are _not_ upgradable. That's a
bit of a downside but, realistically, I'm probably never going to be able to
go to the pro version anyway, so I guess it's not a terribly big deal.
I've been there, but it doesn't seem to be very active. Not a lot of posts.
Thanks,
Michelle |
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