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HireMe.geek.nz
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject:
DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it has |
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DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it has unique spectral
qualities).
I would also suggest HEKLA, by Jon Liefs -- on of the loudest orchestral
compositions known.
In any case, I suspect that both would not be damaged by NICAM.
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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HireMe.geek.nz wrote:
| Quote: | DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it has unique
spectral qualities).
I would also suggest HEKLA, by Jon Liefs -- on of the loudest
orchestral compositions known.
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If you're referring to the other DAB 128kbps vs 96kbps MP3 thread, then
it was just a short experiment to see whether the following claim stands
up:
"To be fair, DAB at 128k stereo sounds much better than 96k stereo mp3.
You can test this for yourself."
and I'd say it doesn't.
| Quote: | In any case, I suspect that both would not be damaged by NICAM.
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True, but NICAM only compresses by a factor of approximately 2. I'd
settle for high bit rate psychoacoustically compressed audio, it's just
that in the UK they go way too far and use 128kbps MP2 on DAB, and it
sounds crap.
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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hwh
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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"DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> schreef in bericht
news:HFpfd.389$fq6.176@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: | True, but NICAM only compresses by a factor of approximately 2. I'd
settle for high bit rate psychoacoustically compressed audio, it's just
that in the UK they go way too far and use 128kbps MP2 on DAB, and it
sounds crap.
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I think Nicam doesn't really compress. It is just that they code at 11 bits
per channel and do 32 k sampling, that saves bandwidth.
gr, hwh |
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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hwh wrote:
| Quote: | "DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> schreef in bericht
news:HFpfd.389$fq6.176@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
True, but NICAM only compresses by a factor of approximately 2. I'd
settle for high bit rate psychoacoustically compressed audio, it's
just that in the UK they go way too far and use 128kbps MP2 on DAB,
and it sounds crap.
I think Nicam doesn't really compress. It is just that they code at
11 bits per channel and do 32 k sampling, that saves bandwidth.
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They use "companding" (COMpression - exPANDING), see section 3.2 on
here:
http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/nicam.html
so it gets the performance of almost 14-bit linear PCM with 10-bits per
sample.
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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hwh
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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"DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> schreef in bericht
news:zlufd.1448$fq6.376@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: | They use "companding" (COMpression - exPANDING), see section 3.2 on
here:
http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/nicam.html
so it gets the performance of almost 14-bit linear PCM with 10-bits per
sample.
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Okay, that's even better. Pity its replacement is not as good. (Digital TV
with Mp2 sound)
gr, hwh |
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Brian Gregory [UK]
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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"DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:zlufd.1448$fq6.376@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
I don't see anything one would normally call compression or expanding in
that description.
While Companding may be what the C in NICAM stands for it doesn't give much
of a clue as to what is actually happening.
It's more along the lines of using a 10 bit floating point number instead of
a 14 bit integer and only allowing the binary point to move every
millisecond so it's position need only be sent every millisecond. The
position of the binary point is obviously chosen to give the greatest
resolution possible in each millisecond block without any overflow
occurring.
| Quote: | so it gets the performance of almost 14-bit linear PCM with 10-bits per
sample.
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That's true though.
--
Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee. |
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:42 am Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:
| Quote: | "DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:zlufd.1448$fq6.376@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
They use "companding" (COMpression - exPANDING), see section 3.2 on
here: http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/nicam.html
I don't see anything one would normally call compression or expanding
in that description.
While Companding may be what the C in NICAM stands for it doesn't
give much of a clue as to what is actually happening.
It's more along the lines of using a 10 bit floating point number
instead of a 14 bit integer
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Encoding something that takes 14-bits with 10-bits results in
compression, and the reverse of this is called expansion. Combine
COMpression with exPANDING and you get companding.
The plain old telephone system (POTS) uses companding as well. Who'd
have thought it, the old dog and bone using compression? But it does:
A-law companding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_law
| Quote: | so it gets the performance of almost 14-bit linear PCM with 10-bits
per sample.
That's true though.
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Think about the definition of "compression".
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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Brian Gregory [UK]
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:48 am Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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"DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:hxzfd.1527$fq6.553@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: | Encoding something that takes 14-bits with 10-bits results in compression,
and the reverse of this is called expansion. Combine COMpression with
exPANDING and you get companding.
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But the Expansion takes place as part of the decoding. It's not part of the
encoding process.
If you include what happens when decoding any distribution system for
compressed audio such as DAB, DVB-T, or MP3 files could be described as
using companding because the are all expanded again during the decoding or
playing process.
--
Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee. |
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:
| Quote: | "DAB sounds worse than FM" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:hxzfd.1527$fq6.553@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
Encoding something that takes 14-bits with 10-bits results in
compression, and the reverse of this is called expansion. Combine
COMpression with exPANDING and you get companding.
But the Expansion takes place as part of the decoding. It's not part
of the encoding process.
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I didn't say it was. But what's the difference between this and MPEG
audio? It's compressed at the broadcaster's end, and expanded (from,
say, 192kbps up to 16-bit linear PCM) at the decoder.
NICAM does use compression.
| Quote: | If you include what happens when decoding any distribution system for
compressed audio such as DAB, DVB-T, or MP3 files could be described
as using companding because the are all expanded again during the
decoding or playing process.
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Indeed, and I don't know why, say, MPEG audio is called "compressed
audio" while NICAM and telephone signals are described as being
"companded", but, ultimately, no matter what you call it, they both use
compression.
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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Doug McDonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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A question: has anybody responded to the ORIGINAL
question? The one in the subject line?
Doug McDonald |
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:53 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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Doug McDonald wrote:
| Quote: | A question: has anybody responded to the ORIGINAL
question? The one in the subject line?
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No.
BTW Doug, did you read October's EBU Technical Review Editorial? I
suggest you sot down with a glass of moonshine prior to reading the
following paragraph:
http://www.ebu.ch/trev_300-editorial.html
"Much attention at IBC 2004 in Amsterdam was focussed on handheld
devices displaying TV-like services but, for me, one of the best
exhibits at IBC 2004 involved DVB-T reception on a lap-top computer:
reception of the Dutch DVB-T services was "rock solid" even when I waved
the lap-top above my head during one of the sessions. I must admit that
this prompted me to say "Eat your hearts out, ATSC!" because we know
that our friends in ATSC simply cannot match that level of performance."
BTW, if Bush wins, all Americans are banned from this newsgroup with
immediate effect.
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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Doug McDonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
| Quote: |
"Much attention at IBC 2004 in Amsterdam was focussed on handheld
devices displaying TV-like services but, for me, one of the best
exhibits at IBC 2004 involved DVB-T reception on a lap-top computer:
reception of the Dutch DVB-T services was "rock solid" even when I waved
the lap-top above my head during one of the sessions. I must admit that
this prompted me to say "Eat your hearts out, ATSC!" because we know
that our friends in ATSC simply cannot match that level of performance."
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Performance? I didn't know that Holland was transmitting HDTV!!!
Performance .... what performance?????
How big was the laptop screen? HDTV on a laptop? You'd
need really good eyes to see it!!
Doug McDonald |
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DAB sounds worse than FM
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject:
Re: DAB vs MP3 : has anyone tested Ligiti's ATMOSPHERES (it |
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Doug McDonald wrote:
| Quote: | DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
"Much attention at IBC 2004 in Amsterdam was focussed on handheld
devices displaying TV-like services but, for me, one of the best
exhibits at IBC 2004 involved DVB-T reception on a lap-top computer:
reception of the Dutch DVB-T services was "rock solid" even when I
waved the lap-top above my head during one of the sessions. I must
admit that this prompted me to say "Eat your hearts out, ATSC!"
because we know that our friends in ATSC simply cannot match that
level of performance."
Performance? I didn't know that Holland was transmitting HDTV!!!
Performance .... what performance?????
How big was the laptop screen? HDTV on a laptop? You'd
need really good eyes to see it!!
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Oh hello, Doug's having one of his episodes again.
--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio |
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