| Author |
Message |
Cullen Skink
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:36 am Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
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<reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108592455.636150.238820@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Cullen Skink wrote:
reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108317101.687071.317520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
This week alone, i have had to repair a Philips (15 mths old) and an
Aiwa (4 years old). Both are a shadow of the product those companies
used to sell, and the failures in the power supplies (latter) and
deck
mech (former) were a direct result of shoddy engineering and/or use
of
substandard components (inadequate capacitors, a cheapo load motor).
Where do you think the price cut comes from??
snip
Any idea what would cause my LG to switch itself off as soon as it
powers
up?
does it do this with or without a cassette?
if the cassette is inside it could be:
1) broken/slipping loading belt or drive belt (esp.if you hear any
movement/whirring/other odd sound)
2) cassette basket jumped out of timing
3) cassette stuck in mechanism - spillage on tape?
4) mode switch dirty or intermittent - microcontroller receiving
erroneous mech state/position signals
5) power supply or one of its lines is overloaded and unit goes to
protection mode
|
Yip there is a cassette in the player. It was playing fine then switched
itself off.
Many thanks. Will check out the link.
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:16 am Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
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|
AMO wrote:
| Quote: | reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
SNIP)
I don't know what kind of advice you are giving, but you may as well
tell
the other person to go and buy a 286 for his next PC. Sure its more
of a
brick and is probably created at a time when PCs are less ruthlessly
mass-produced than they are now and possibly as they are less complex
and at
the time used more skilled engineers to put the PC together it is
more
'reliable', but its not something to recommend someone to.
|
we're not talking about Pcs or cars or whatever. Those are not on the
verge of extinction. They are not a dying technology. Your comparison
in invalid. Here, we're dealing with the case of vcr, which IS on the
way out, and whose price point is now so low that manufacturers are
forced to make drastic cuts in order to keep in the market. in view of
this, many older models are far better. when will you realise that
thing have got worse not better in this field? I put this down to your
lack of a suitable technical background, as there is no substance in
your claims.
| Quote: | (SNIp)
What you're saying is absolute rubbish. VCRs are better today than
ever
before. They come with 6 heads for better recording. They come with
scart
sockets for better audio/video transmission. They come with advanced
machanisms for winding tapes so that as you get towards the end of
the tape
it slows down so as not to put strain on the tape whilst allowing for
the
tape to be wound at incredibly fast speeds.
|
(sigh) repeat after me: Features are not the same as quality....
And have you deliberately left out the following: oversensetive SMPS 's
whose caps often dry up very quickly, cheap rubber parts which turn bad
very quickly, flimsy cassette baskets, fragile plastic mechanical
parts, inadequately made spool clutches....?
Have you ever looked inside a vcr? you really have no idea, do you?
They are extremely economical
| Quote: | and tapes these days are so cheap at around 50p / tape last time I
bought
some. Quality wise, for stuff recorded off the TV you'd be
hardpressed to
tell the difference from a VHS or DVD recording.
|
Now who is talking rubbish!
| Quote: | You get so much for your £50, it is unreal. And for casual
recording, you
really can't beat a decent VCR. In a few years time when DVD
Recorders have
come down in price and you get a lot of features for your money and
they've
decided on which standard to adhere to and they've overcome noise
problems,
then yes, it might be time to stop buying a new VCR. However, today,
I'd
buy one without giving it a second thought.
-----------------------------------------------------
I have to disagree.
1) *slightly* better?? read a thousand times better! mechanics,
power
supply....
2)Features do not mean the same as quality. Don't jump to
conclusions.
3) what units are you basing this comparison on? seems like a
meaningless vast generalisation to me.
-------------------------------------------------------
Now I know you're talking absolute rubbish. Name one VCR that was
developed
in the last 10 years that is a thousand times better than one I could
pick
today! Go for it!
|
I have made recommendations earlier in the post as to brands - in
short,I prefer most JVC, Panasonic, certain sonys and Mitsubishis, a
few Toshiba... those are the ones I go for based on experience of
repair. With the caveat that they have not been excesively used or have
been checked over, they make a good used buy and as people
change/upgrade to DVD , good hifi vhs decks can be had for very little,
and these will likely outlive todays stuff.
| Quote: | I'm not having you giving complete and utter cr*p advice
to bargain hunters on this newsgroup. What you say is completely
wrong. |
Such eloquence. But fine, each to their own....as they say, never argue
with a fool - they bring you down to their level, then beat you with
their experience ;-)
| Quote: | Are you telling me that you're willing to put money on the fact that
you
can't get a VCR at the same price today for the same quality of
yesterday?
Are you really willing to put money on that?
|
It is not impossible, but given the state of the vcrs coming onto the
market of late, I think it is hard to do. It's reasonable to say that
the vast majority are best avoided, for reasons outlined earlier.
| Quote: | -----------------------------------------------------------
(snip)
------------------------------------------------------------
VCRs have moving parts and will always have a greater chance of
breaking
down because of this, in the same way that cars are mechanical and
fall into
the same category. However, to imply that VCRs cannot be built today
or
that you cannot buy one of the same quality as yesterday is
ridiculous. |
I did not say that at all, don't jump to conclusions. The issue is not
whether or not they *can* be built well, it is that there is *no
impetus now to do so*. I said that the manufactuers are cutting costs
in order to remain competitive on a product with an excessively low
price point here and now.
Why > don't you go on to all the other forums and say the same thing
about cars,
| Quote: | PCs, whatever you can think of.
|
No. (sigh) here we go again with that irrelevant argument. Those arent
dying out, VCRs are.
| Quote: | Yes, VCRs do break down. Yes, they have a greater chance of breaking
down
as they use mechanical components that are moving parts. However,
don't
take things out of context and argue them to extremes. VCRs today
are
worthwhile investments whilst you wait for DVD Recorder issues to be
ironed
out, become more mainstream and better value. If you're used to one,
go get
a replacement. In 3 years time when your next VCR may be knackered,
consider an all-singing all-dancing DVD Recorder with hard drive and
lots of
other features for less than £150. Its buying the right technology
at the
right time.
|
Fair enough, but the right time for vcrs was way before dvds came into
the picture (no pun intended). Not now.
(snip)> -----------------------------------------------------------
| Quote: |
No. But I maintain that you simply won't get a decent vcr for that
price these days, (or even at nearly any price it seems). Such is the
state of the vcr market.
regards, Ben
------------------------------------------------------------
That's fine. I never said that you'd get a decent VCR for £30-40.
My
recommendation was a £50 down from £100 that has been selling for a
few
years at previously higher prices (£200 and above), is an extremely
good
brand, has a good reliable reputation, and is still being used in the
next
generation of VCRs by that company.
|
sharp have never, to my knowledge, ever been remotely high end. In fact
they make mediocre vcrs. I think some of their deck mechs were by Funai
(read: cheapest) You seem to know more about marketing than technology,
my friend.
| Quote: | (snip)
I'd appreciate it if you'd post so that when people reply, it will
indent
your post. There is something wrong with your posting settings.
|
dunno what causes that, will investigate
-Ben |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:32 am Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
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On 16 Feb 2005 17:16:56 -0800, reverend_rogers@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | And have you deliberately left out the following: oversensetive SMPS 's
whose caps often dry up very quickly, cheap rubber parts which turn bad
very quickly, flimsy cassette baskets, fragile plastic mechanical
parts, inadequately made spool clutches....?
Having made the decision to buy a DVD recorder back in November last |
year now nearly three months on I can say that I will never give
another VCR house room . I had three shelves cluttered up with tapes
now all converted to DVD and stored in a corner of one shelf and the
tapes have all gone to the tip along with the VCR and good ridden's to
the lot I just cannot be doing with antiques . |
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BarryL
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
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|
"AMO" said :
| Quote: | I am the OP. These are very interesting points which you make.
It is sad that the parts are poorly made and/or designed so that they
are almost destined to fail within what would have been a normal
period of working.
It *is* possible to make products cheaper and just as reliable and/or
functional (I don't have the stats but things like wrist watches and
calculators come to mind).
It is a pity that VCRs have not got only cheaper but have also got
nastier.
Mozzy, don't take the other person's view to extreme. All things in the
mass produced world work that way.
|
No they don't. Consider the digital camera.
The reason why cheap VCRs are "nasty" is because a VCR is complex and
contains moving parts - that cannot be done on the cheap with
seriously cutting corners.
| Quote: | Cars today aren't built as sturdy as they used to be,
|
Bit of a generalization there. I think you'll find a Bentley GT is
reasonably well put together.
| Quote: | If you want an item handcrafted from the ground up with care, you're
probably looking at around £1000 or more. You could probably write to Sony
and ask for a custom bespoke VCR crafted by the Engineer of Ultimate VCR
Research, manufactured in the Holy Plant of VCR Production, tested by the
Keen Sighted Couch Potatoe of Visual Appreciation, delivered via by Goddess
of Express and Graceful Deliveries with a thousand birds tooting a song when
she knocks on your door. It may cost you a bomb. But the item is still old
technology that hasn't improved much in the last few years and for the extra
you pay, you're not exactly getting a lot else.
|
So wrong I don't know where to start.... :-(
| Quote: | If you spent £500 on a VCR 10 years ago, whilst it might be of slightly
better build, it would not be as good as a VCR purchased for £50 today.
|
I have a Panasonic NV-F65 which is 15-20 years old. It wipes the floor
with any £50 VCR. We're talking night and day difference. Oh yeah..
it's had it's heads cleaned twice no other maintenance and it STILL
WORKS.
| Quote: | A
lot of features would not have existed back then.
|
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only major new features I can
think of are digital image processing and VideoPlus (which is quite
old already). Now try finding a budget VCR with metal moving parts,
flying erase heads, manual audio level settings, MPX filter and so on
and so forth.
| Quote: | Work out how much you spent on your last VCR. If you spend the same amount
on a VCR today, you're gonna get something great.
|
If it existed...
| Quote: | Alternatively, you can
spend £50 on a good price/performance/value VCR I recommend and save
yourself some cash. Or if you really want, buy one for £30-40 rock bottom
and then if it goes wrong, hey, at the end of the day it was only £30-40.
|
Disposable consumerism SUCKS!
| Quote: | Do you really think that you're going to get anything substantial on a DVD
Recorder with £30-40 in your pocket to spend?
|
In a year or two. Have you seen how cheap PC DVD recorders are now?
Same technology.
| Quote: | As I said, compare like with like. If you are willing to spend £300+ on a
VCR like people did many years ago when VCRs were a reasonably new
technology, what you'd get today is not rock bottom trash.
|
You are seriously ill informed on this subject! |
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Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoI
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
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|
AMO <NoSpam@SpamFreeWorld.com> wrote in message
news:4213d19c$0$77415$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
| Quote: | some. Quality wise, for stuff recorded off the TV you'd be hardpressed to
tell the difference from a VHS or DVD recording.
|
Eh? Most/all DVD recorders in SP mode or higher record the full 576 lines
transmitted by digital television systems. VHS can manage 250 lines, 300 at
best, and the difference is very noticeable. I agree with you that there are
some VCR bargains out there, but I also agree with the other poster about
the build quality of current machines. I have a 4 year-old Sharp and a 3
year-old Samsung, neither of which feel as substantial as the Aiwa they
replaced, and both of which are used solely for dubbing tapes to DVD now.
I'm hoping that I won't ever have to buy another VCR.
Upshot of it all is: if you can afford a DVD recorder, get one.
L |
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BarryL
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
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"AMO" said :
| Quote: | I disagree. I am sure that you believe in what you say, but my
recommendation to the other person is that VCR technology is like any other
technology. Newer models supercede older models. You don't go around
buying cameras, PDAs, computers, in fact any technology related item, going
for older items over new.
|
You are either a troll or an idiot. |
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David Quinton
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:44:02 -0000, "Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoIoAmL"
<usenet@louisNOSPAMbarfe.com> wrote:
| Quote: | AMO <NoSpam@SpamFreeWorld.com> wrote in message
news:4213d19c$0$77415$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
some. Quality wise, for stuff recorded off the TV you'd be hardpressed to
tell the difference from a VHS or DVD recording.
Eh? Most/all DVD recorders in SP mode or higher record the full 576 lines
transmitted by digital television systems. VHS can manage 250 lines, 300 at
best, and the difference is very noticeable.
|
A couple of years ago I bought my first (JVC) S-VHS recorder and the
difference is amazing compared with plain VHS
Throrougly recommended!.
--
Great gifts: <http://www.ThisBritain.com/ASOS_popup.html>
Locate your Mobile phone: <http://www.bizorg.co.uk/news.html> |
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Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoI
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
|
BarryL <no@email.here> wrote in message
news:oa991156l312a1t0k62m6vjl72p1godls6@4ax.com...
| Quote: | old already). Now try finding a budget VCR with metal moving parts,
flying erase heads, manual audio level settings
|
That's the one I miss the most. Fortunately, there are workarounds. I
recently wanted to dub to DVD a VHS tape that had a linear mono audio track
at a very low level. I connected my VCR to the DVD recorder with a scart to
3 phono lead, running the audio leads through a small Behringer mixer, and
out again into the DVD. I was able to boost the sound level and tame some of
the hiss and unpleasantness with the EQ controls on the mixer. It's not
perfect, but it's a lot better than the original soundtrack.
L |
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Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoI
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
|
David Quinton <usenet_2004D_email@REMOVETHISBITbizorg.co.uk> wrote in
message news:tjd911508frmrob0h0so433pq9ggfo34k1@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
A couple of years ago I bought my first (JVC) S-VHS recorder and the
difference is amazing compared with plain VHS
Throrougly recommended!.
|
I agree about the improvement in picture quality - S-VHS is about 400-450
lines, isn't it? - but I think the build quality issue still stands. A good
friend had a JVC S-VHS machine that lasted barely more than a year.
L |
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dennis@work
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
|
"Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoIoAmL" <usenet@louisNOSPAMbarfe.com> wrote in
message news:1108651474.0044b88d245430f90be1259123fb87a0@teranews...
| Quote: | AMO <NoSpam@SpamFreeWorld.com> wrote in message
news:4213d19c$0$77415$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
some. Quality wise, for stuff recorded off the TV you'd be hardpressed
to
tell the difference from a VHS or DVD recording.
Eh? Most/all DVD recorders in SP mode or higher record the full 576 lines
transmitted by digital television systems. VHS can manage 250 lines, 300
at
best, and the difference is very noticeable.
|
When people talk about lines on VCRs they actually mean the horizontal
resolution in total number of lines.
All VCRs record the 576 lines in the verticle plane, if they didn't they
would have to generate them in some way which wasn't an affordable
technology when VCRs were invented.
The video bandwidth of VHS is about 2.2MHz IIRC while SVHS is about 3.4Mhz
broadcast quality is about 6MHz.
These equate to about 250 lines for VHS, about 380 lines for SVHS and about
700 lines for broadcast.
This is why PAL DVDs are (normally) done at ~720 (horizontal) by 576
(verticle) pixels.
This doesn't mean that a DVD or digital TV image will be as good as analogue
broadcast but it can be better.
| Quote: | I agree with you that there are
some VCR bargains out there, but I also agree with the other poster about
the build quality of current machines. I have a 4 year-old Sharp and a 3
year-old Samsung, neither of which feel as substantial as the Aiwa they
replaced, and both of which are used solely for dubbing tapes to DVD now.
I'm hoping that I won't ever have to buy another VCR.
Upshot of it all is: if you can afford a DVD recorder, get one.
|
Try it first.
There can be some pretty horrible MPEG2 encoders in DVD recorders.
If you want to see them at their worst try recording some Olympic swimming
and admire the square water droplets.
You would get much better recordings if you get a freeview card in a PC and
save the MPEG to DVD.
It has been encoded in some very expensive kit before being transmitted.
Just think £50k encoder (updated as needed) vs. £5 encoder (updated if you
buy a new recorder, maybe).
HTH. |
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Mozzy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? - DVD instead? |
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|
| Quote: | On 16 Feb 2005 17:16:56 -0800, reverend_rogers@yahoo.com wrote:
And have you deliberately left out the following: oversensetive
SMPS 's whose caps often dry up very quickly, cheap rubber parts
which turn bad very quickly, flimsy cassette baskets, fragile
plastic mechanical parts, inadequately made spool clutches....?
|
On 17 Feb 2005, wrote:
| Quote: |
Having made the decision to buy a DVD recorder back in November
last year now nearly three months on I can say that I will never
give another VCR house room . I had three shelves cluttered up
with tapes now all converted to DVD and stored in a corner of
one shelf and the tapes have all gone to the tip along with the
VCR and good ridden's to the lot I just cannot be doing with
antiques .
|
I am not familiar with the DVD market. Presumably if you get a DVD
to replace a VCR then it would have to be a recordable DVD.
Aren't thet rather expansive ... perhaps £250 upwards? |
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Dee
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? - DVD instead? |
|
|
Mozzy wrote:
| Quote: |
I am not familiar with the DVD market. Presumably if you get a DVD
to replace a VCR then it would have to be a recordable DVD.
Aren't thet rather expansive ... perhaps £250 upwards?
|
IF it's only to tape the odd programme off the TV then a VCR is good
enough for most people - if it's to record something to keep for years
and years then a DVD recorder is better |
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Jack Ak
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? - DVD instead? |
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|
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:52:34 GMT, Mozzy <dem_d@mail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On 16 Feb 2005 17:16:56 -0800, reverend_rogers@yahoo.com wrote:
And have you deliberately left out the following: oversensetive
SMPS 's whose caps often dry up very quickly, cheap rubber parts
which turn bad very quickly, flimsy cassette baskets, fragile
plastic mechanical parts, inadequately made spool clutches....?
On 17 Feb 2005, wrote:
Having made the decision to buy a DVD recorder back in November
last year now nearly three months on I can say that I will never
give another VCR house room . I had three shelves cluttered up
with tapes now all converted to DVD and stored in a corner of
one shelf and the tapes have all gone to the tip along with the
VCR and good ridden's to the lot I just cannot be doing with
antiques .
I am not familiar with the DVD market. Presumably if you get a DVD
to replace a VCR then it would have to be a recordable DVD.
Aren't thet rather expansive ... perhaps £250 upwards?
|
Many VCR owners use the machine to play rental tapes and never record
programs. This group is acquiring DVD players in record (pardon the
pun) numbers.
Aren't rental DVDs available in the U.K.? |
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Louis Barfe's IbMePdErRoI
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? |
|
|
dennis@work <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:yomRd.17532$8B3.16946@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Quote: |
When people talk about lines on VCRs they actually mean the horizontal
resolution in total number of lines.
All VCRs record the 576 lines in the verticle plane, if they didn't they
would have to generate them in some way which wasn't an affordable
technology when VCRs were invented.
|
Yes, but that's still more than half of the original picture being thrown
away.
| Quote: | The video bandwidth of VHS is about 2.2MHz IIRC while SVHS is about 3.4Mhz
broadcast quality is about 6MHz.
These equate to about 250 lines for VHS, about 380 lines for SVHS and
about
700 lines for broadcast.
|
Isn't it nearer to 600 for broadcast? 625 minus a few for teletext, etc.
| Quote: | This is why PAL DVDs are (normally) done at ~720 (horizontal) by 576
(verticle) pixels.
This doesn't mean that a DVD or digital TV image will be as good as
analogue
broadcast but it can be better.
|
MPEG-2, as used in digital TV and DVD, is a lossy system, so it can look
absolutely atrocious if the bitrate is low - pixellation on anything that
dares to move a millimetre or more. I watch a lot of programmes on a D-SAT
channel called Performance - the picture quality is terrible, but the
programmes - jazz concerts and the like - are very good, so I squint through
the blockiness and moan a lot about varying definitions of 'broadcast
quality'. A good analogue picture (decent aerial with line of sight to the
transmitter) compares very favourably with a good digital picture, when
viewed on a PAL CRT set.
| Quote: | Try it first.
There can be some pretty horrible MPEG2 encoders in DVD recorders.
|
Oh, agreed. I have 2 DVD recorders, a Liteon and a Pioneer. At lower
bitrates, the Pioneer produces a picture not unlike long-play VHS from an
indifferent source, whereas the comparable settings on the Liteon are
unwatchable. Not that I ever use anything less than SP, of course.
| Quote: | If you want to see them at their worst try recording some Olympic swimming
and admire the square water droplets.
|
Or any fast-moving sporting event really.
| Quote: | You would get much better recordings if you get a freeview card in a PC
and
save the MPEG to DVD.
It has been encoded in some very expensive kit before being transmitted.
Just think £50k encoder (updated as needed) vs. £5 encoder (updated if you
buy a new recorder, maybe).
|
I assume that you're saying that PC freeview cards save the MPEG-2 in the
form in which it's being txed, without re-encoding it? This would make for a
minimisation of loss, but at the higher settings, the DVD recorders I've
used don't do the job badly at all. And the media are cheaper too.
L
-------------------------------------------------------
Where Have All The Good Times Gone?
the rise and fall of the record industry
- out now in paperback: more words, fewer errors.
-------------------------------------------------------
Louis Barfe - www.louisbarfe.com |
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GMAN
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Worth buying a VCR now? - DVD instead? |
|
|
In article <4216322b$0$21912$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>, Dee <archer1NOSPAM@PLEASEjustemail.THANKYOUnet> wrote:
| Quote: | Mozzy wrote:
I am not familiar with the DVD market. Presumably if you get a DVD
to replace a VCR then it would have to be a recordable DVD.
Aren't thet rather expansive ... perhaps £250 upwards?
IF it's only to tape the odd programme off the TV then a VCR is good
enough for most people - if it's to record something to keep for years
and years then a DVD recorder is better
The VCR has been replaced by TIVO like DVR devices. I will never tape a show |
again unless its for a family member |
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